Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Ekie]

This is an Incredibly ignorant thing to say. Yes BP is big but it wasn't just guaranteed to happen like that. It took Coogler, T'Chadwick, fiege and others to make it happen. Would BP of been successful? Yes it would of. Would of it done the numbers it did with another director? To be honest? I don't think so. It needed Coogler to Make it happen. Who knows, maybe another director would of been okay with them having British accents. Maybe another director would not of went to Africa to study the culture to make the movie as authentic and possible. Maybe they would of went with the same, safe origin story without addressing tough, real world questions.

My wife finds all superhero movies boring. Just action sets and explosions and jokes without really focusing on the story. My wife loved BP. The only superhero movie she likes. Why? The story was engaging, she didn't feel like Erik was just a generic bad guy. She said at the end she didn't fully see him as a bad guy and she liked how it wasn't so Black and White in terms of the hero and the villain. We might not of gotten that with another director.

So Honestly I would say, another director can and will do fine. Another director doing as good or better? Yeah the bar is set way high for that and I would pity anyone trying to follow up what Coogler did if they weren't coming correct and 100% like he did

Ignorant is trying to say that the most perfect thing that could have happened is what happened just because someone enjoyed the movie. Kugler did a good job with a franchise that was bound for success with or without him. It was breaking record sales before anyone even saw it and he wasn't there first director choice so let's not act like Marvel just thought he was perfect for the job. There are a lot of talented people out there that are just as dedicated to their craft if not more so. Not saying the list that's better than him as long I'm just saying that there was a list and harville clearly had one since he was second on it. Personally I think Antoine Fuqua would have done a fantastic job as well.

I'd also like to point out that I don't think there's no such thing as iron Man without Robert Downey jr. Same with Spider-Man and how everyone thinks he's inseparable from Tom Holland. And the guardians of the Galaxy well still do numbers even without James Gunn. Black panther is unlike any other Marvel movie because of the character and his universe is unlike any others in marvels. it's been trending since the first day Marvel announced it was going to do it before anyone even thought or cared about who was going to direct it.

so be pointing out that black panther will be fine without coogler is actually meeting positive. Trying to say that there's no such thing as black panther without coogler sounds pretty negative to me

[Ekie]

That said I'm not opposed to Coogler or seeing what he would do and how he would improve on a second movie I'm just saying there's a room for improvement.

[Ezyo1000]

Jesus Christ of Nazareth... Sweet Kitten Bast...

Who GIVES A CRAP what Scorsese has to say really? The general audience? Because they sure as **** love MCU movies and they loved Black Panther. The Oscars gave Black Panther 7 nominations and 3 awards. Not to mention the number of prestigious awards it won and was nominated for.

People aren't suddenly gonna go "OMG MCU movies aren't cinema because Scorsese said so and I should stop watching them!" Nobody gives a ****. It's his opinion. He's not a god no matter how many people think he is. I don't have to agree with him, and the funny thing is Feige never said he was making artful cinema, He knows he's making blockbusters and he's very good at it. It's people like Scorsese and the countless directors and actors that say these things that don't seem to get that because they think they can dictate what is good and what isn't it.

Y'all are just being too goddamn negative right now and I'm sorry but it is pathetic and I hate it.

Dude it's all chicken little isht here. Do t pay it much mind. Let me help.

I have someone here to give his opinion.

Ezyo1000: Namor, Do you think Coogler is leaving the MCU or that what Scorsese had to say about the MCU has merit?

Namor:


Ezyo1000: T'Challa, any thoughts on this?

T'Challa:


Ezyo1000: I think we got our answer

[Ezyo1000]

Ignorant is trying to say that the most perfect thing that could have happened is what happened just because someone enjoyed the movie. Kugler did a good job with a franchise that was bound for success with or without him. It was breaking record sales before anyone even saw it and he wasn't there first director choice so let's not act like Marvel just thought he was perfect for the job. There are a lot of talented people out there that are just as dedicated to their craft if not more so. Not saying the list that's better than him as long I'm just saying that there was a list and harville clearly had one since he was second on it. Personally I think Antoine Fuqua would have done a fantastic job as well.

I'd also like to point out that I don't think there's no such thing as iron Man without Robert Downey jr. Same with Spider-Man and how everyone thinks he's inseparable from Tom Holland. And the guardians of the Galaxy well still do numbers even without James Gunn. Black panther is unlike any other Marvel movie because of the character and his universe is unlike any others in marvels. it's been trending since the first day Marvel announced it was going to do it before anyone even thought or cared about who was going to direct it.

so be pointing out that black panther will be fine without coogler is actually meeting positive. Trying to say that there's no such thing as black panther without coogler sounds pretty negative to me

Please tell me where in my post that I said the movie was perfect? I'll wait...

The fact that your trying to relegate my post to simply it was. Perfect because my wife enjoyed it is also disingenuous at best.

As is said in my post, yes BP was bound for success, but to claim that any director could of pulled in the numbers it did or better is simply not true. Black Panther is the highest gross Solo superhero movie in history in the US. One of 4 movies to hit 700 mil. It took endgame to be the 4th one tondo it and that was 10+ years in the making. BP had won so many awards and won some Oscars. You think that would of just happened to any director?

Again your adding your own words To my argument that I never said and trying to use that to say I'm being negative.

I mean y'all are the ones acting like what Coogler did is just standard run of the mill numbers band anyone could do it. I'm praising a talented director and saying that in order to replicate it with a different director, they need to have the same passion and vision for the character as he did

[Blind Wedjat]

Ignorant is trying to say that the most perfect thing that could have happened is what happened just because someone enjoyed the movie. Kugler did a good job with a franchise that was bound for success with or without him. It was breaking record sales before anyone even saw it and he wasn't there first director choice so let's not act like Marvel just thought he was perfect for the job. There are a lot of talented people out there that are just as dedicated to their craft if not more so. Not saying the list that's better than him as long I'm just saying that there was a list and harville clearly had one since he was second on it. Personally I think Antoine Fuqua would have done a fantastic job as well.

I'd also like to point out that I don't think there's no such thing as iron Man without Robert Downey jr. Same with Spider-Man and how everyone thinks he's inseparable from Tom Holland. And the guardians of the Galaxy well still do numbers even without James Gunn. Black panther is unlike any other Marvel movie because of the character and his universe is unlike any others in marvels. it's been trending since the first day Marvel announced it was going to do it before anyone even thought or cared about who was going to direct it.

so be pointing out that black panther will be fine without coogler is actually meeting positive. Trying to say that there's no such thing as black panther without coogler sounds pretty negative to me

You're arguing about skill and dedication which is besides the point. Lots of directors are skilled and dedicated directors, but not all of them have the same approach to filmmaking, which is what you're ignoring. Coogler has been a beloved and acclaimed director since Creed. A Rocky spinoff was always going to be a tough act to follow because that is a beloved American franchise. Him nailing it and reintroducing the Rocky franchise to a new audience is what makes him special. It's pretty ignorant to think everybody can do that.

Coogler wasn't the only director Marvel considered, but at the end of the day he was the one they chose because they liked his pitch. No two directors are gonna have the same pitch. Marvel certainly didn't like Ava DuVernay's, even though she's just as good as a director as Ryan Coogler. That's what matters at the end of the day: the pitch that sells the director.

A Black Panther movie in the MCU was always going to be successful, yes. But what made it as successful as it was the film itself, not the property. That's why Coogler is essentially irreplaceable. Because it was his touch on it that did just that. There's nothing to suggest that F Gary Gray or Ava DuVernay or Antione Fuqua would have made Black Panther that successful. It even becomes more apparent when you consider that the three things BP won Oscars for where because of the people Coogler chose. I doubt these other directors would have choses Ludwig for the score, Bleacher for the production design and Carter for the costumes. Those three people are his friends.

[Mr MajestiK]

The techno-jungle? Which i guess is wakandan now and not his. Of course, we have not seen or heard of it for quite a while.

I'd completely forgotten about the Techno Jungle.

[Mr MajestiK]

Dude it's all chicken little isht here. Do t pay it much mind. Let me help.

I have someone here to give his opinion.

Ezyo1000: Namor, Do you think Coogler is leaving the MCU or that what Scorsese had to say about the MCU has merit?

Namor:


Ezyo1000: T'Challa, any thoughts on this?

T'Challa:


Ezyo1000: I think we got our answer

Namor and T'Challa laugh at the naysayers mutterings.

[Ekie]

You're arguing about skill and dedication which is besides the point. Lots of directors are skilled and dedicated directors, but not all of them have the same approach to filmmaking, which is what you're ignoring. Coogler has been a beloved and acclaimed director since Creed. A Rocky spinoff was always going to be a tough act to follow because that is a beloved American franchise. Him nailing it and reintroducing the Rocky franchise to a new audience is what makes him special. It's pretty ignorant to think everybody can do that.

Coogler wasn't the only director Marvel considered, but at the end of the day he was the one they chose because they liked his pitch. No two directors are gonna have the same pitch. Marvel certainly didn't like Ava DuVernay's, even though she's just as good as a director as Ryan Coogler. That's what matters at the end of the day: the pitch that sells the director.

A Black Panther movie in the MCU was always going to be successful, yes. But what made it as successful as it was the film itself, not the property. That's why Coogler is essentially irreplaceable. Because it was his touch on it that did just that. There's nothing to suggest that F Gary Gray or Ava DuVernay or Antione Fuqua would have made Black Panther that successful. It even becomes more apparent when you consider that the three things BP won Oscars for where because of the people Coogler chose. I doubt these other directors would have choses Ludwig for the score, Bleacher for the production design and Carter for the costumes. Those three people are his friends.

Im confused, did Marvel chose him or did Ava choose not to direct because she couldn't fully get her way and they went with their second choice because he was more flexible?
nowhere in my post that I say any director could have done as good a job. I said there are others who could have. Ava, Gray and Especially Fuqua in more opinion are more than capable.
I mean does anyone here think that Coogler could goto DC and make a cyborg movie that would "win oscars" and break records?
No one is bigger than the franchise

[DigiCom]

Im confused, did Marvel chose him or did Ava choose not to direct because she couldn't fully get her way and they went with their second choice because he was more flexible?
nowhere in my post that I say any director could have done as good a job. I said there are others who could have. Ava, Gray and Especially Fuqua in more opinion are more than capable.
I mean does anyone here think that Coogler could goto DC and make a cyborg movie that would "win oscars" and break records?
No one is bigger than the franchise

I don't know about the other two, but DuVernay had a chance to follow her own vision of a film with A Wrinkle In Time.

It LOST 131 million dollars. And in its first weekend, it didn't even win the box office... instead coming in 2nd to a movie that had already been out for 3 weeks:

Black Panther

[Jabare]

is Black Panther going to be in Marvel's Avengers? That's all I want to know. They've got Ms. Marvel in the game.

I either need to see BP in the game or a solo game announcement

[Dboi654]

I don't think Coogler will leave unless him and Marvel come to a big disagreement.

However, Peter Ramsey, Steven Caple Jr (I thought Creed 2 was good) and F. Gary Gray to a certain extent if he is given the right crew/material and a very conducive environment to work in.

But I don't think he will be leaving anytime soon though so its best he stays for the mean time

[Blind Wedjat]

Im confused, did Marvel chose him or did Ava choose not to direct because she couldn't fully get her way and they went with their second choice because he was more flexible?
nowhere in my post that I say any director could have done as good a job. I said there are others who could have. Ava, Gray and Especially Fuqua in more opinion are more than capable.
I mean does anyone here think that Coogler could goto DC and make a cyborg movie that would "win oscars" and break records?
No one is bigger than the franchise

I don't know why you keep reiterating this "no one is bigger than the franchise" thing when it isn't my point.

Ava said her and Marvel disagreed on things. All we can take from that is that they didn't like her pitch, whatever it was. Marvel went on looking for other directors and picked Coogler. Saying he was picked because he was more flexible is an assumption. All we know is that they liked his pitch well enough to accept him. In fact, Marvel tends to suggest cinematographers, composers and production designers and other crew members to work on their films (go look at how many MCU films have these in common) because the directors they hire may not have the experience working on big budget films and these guys will make it easier. Coogler got to pick who he wanted in this regard, so he wasn't as flexible or compromising as you're painting him out to be.

Which is my point that you're not getting. Black Panther was undoubtedly his film and nobody else would have made it the same way he did. If in an alternate universe Ava did direct Black Panther and it also won Oscars, it would be because she directed it, not because it's Black Panther. Your argument is a very flawed view on how filmmaking works and how good films are achieved. Directors are responsible for how well a film is translated on screen and how good that translation is acts as a testament of their skill.

I mean, we've had several writers write Black Panther comics and not all of them are considered great or even good. Priest's Black Panther is revered because it was Priest that wrote it, not because the Black Panther property was always good and anybody could have written a BP comic. We've seen multiple times that not everybody can do that.

[Dboi654]

is Black Panther going to be in Marvel's Avengers? That's all I want to know. They've got Ms. Marvel in the game.

I either need to see BP in the game or a solo game announcement

I wouldn't get my hopes up for BP appearing despite the accolades it has received. Maybe DLC but we will see

Still waiting for the solo game announcement and even that is looking somewhat bleak but I'm still hopeful it will happen.

[Frontier]

is Black Panther going to be in Marvel's Avengers? That's all I want to know. They've got Ms. Marvel in the game.

I either need to see BP in the game or a solo game announcement

They're going to periodically add more playable heroes post-launch.

[Blind Wedjat]

is Black Panther going to be in Marvel's Avengers? That's all I want to know. They've got Ms. Marvel in the game.

I either need to see BP in the game or a solo game announcement

I don't see why he wouldn't since he's in every other Marvel game. It's only a matter of time.