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  1. #8071
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Potentially yes ... magic (and tech for that matter) can potentially create last writing. That said, so far it's been pretty streamlined and conservative. Mostly abilities used for transportation and defense. We've seen more asspull from Wakandan tech in Aarons Avengers than from Shuri so far. Though that's sort of the nature of magic or exotic tech.
    The difference though is T'Challas tech though so.e may appear to be an ass pull, it's still things or close to things we have seen in the past. The solar flare used with Stark Looks to be an extension of the force push, just like the consecrated napalm blast. The gamma shield is an extension of Hickmans energy shield. Energy swords from the daggers, etc etc. It's not so ass pull.

    Shuri all of a sudden being able to change sizes have super strength from past Wakandans that AREN'T black panthers yet are somehow older then BPs and existed long before them (even though bashenga was supposed to be the one from The start) completely stupid ass pull, especially because when she was getting her powers from the start she had 3 and there was no sign of other's.

    There are better ways to give magic. She could of learned from zawavari, she could of learned magic in a way that doesn't isht on the mythos or give her qotd powers but Coates HAD to isht on the mythos, he couldn't resist while saying that her power is superior to T'Challas through complete ass pull and giving her T'Challas personality and claiming T'Challa always wears his heart on his sleeve while Shuri is the pragmatic one. Which is completely opposite of what's been established
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 09-22-2019 at 09:45 AM.

  2. #8072
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    If T'Challa could do this instead of needing Namor to get the dead to follow him or summoning the souls of his ancestors to tell him how much he sucks, then maybe being KoTD would actually be interesting.
    Honestly I don't think the zombie thing ever fit the character. Communicating with his ancestors is fine ... but controlling zombies just seems a bit weird for him. I'm okay with Shuri getting the zombie stuff.

    He needed kotd at the time he got it, but it saves little purpose now for the most part.

  3. #8073
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Crom laughs from his Mountain of Power.

    Good to see you again bro.
    It's good to be back amongst friends.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

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  4. #8074
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Isn't that pose she's making something done in yoga exercise? Why is she using it while doing her zombie revival thing?

    I know it's a strange thing to focus on but it really caught my attention.
    Coates stays yanking all kinds of mindless nonsense from out of his creatively lacking djalla.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

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  5. #8075
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    One of the issues with Shuri's ass pulls is that she isn't even the title character lol.

    Just like Storm's god blast ass pull stuff... once again, not event he title character

    Everyone is asspulling except the damn title character.

    IF we are going to asspull stuff, at least make it part of the main character that people care about
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  6. #8076
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    When the book stated that he had the strength and knowledge of the previous BP's I don't think that was actually literal.
    We don't know that for sure, though, even though it hasn't been shown. Hickman is known for not shoing a lot of stuff on panel that should be shown, like exactly how Black Panther took down Black Dwarf. Plus we have no way of knowing how powerfully strong strength-wise each individual previous Black Panther was. Some of them could have been superhumanly strong... just like at least ONE of them could levitate. It's possible that Black Panther beat Black Dwarf down with superhuman strength due to a superhumanly strong ancestor (although nearly breaking his hand).
    Last edited by MoneySpider; 09-22-2019 at 10:57 AM.
    Blue Marvel - Man of Marvels
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  7. #8077
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Shuri becoming Griot changed her yes ... but at least it gave a reason why she was changed. Turning her into the tech based MCU Shuri actually changed her a lot more. But synergy... sucks, but what can ya do.

    I think magic in general often is a bit of a plot device yes... but honestly tech works the same way. Whatever is needed, Wakandan tech in theory can whip up if it's needed.

    But the reason Shuri would get this sort of upgrade while T'Challa didn't is again Shuri needed it. She needed SOMETHING. T'Challa is already one of the best fighters and one of the smartest guys on earth. In theory he doesn't need any powers or knowledge from any of the previous BPs. At the time Shuri became Griot she had no powers, no title, and no special skills (though post movie she becomes super smart too.. but that happens much later). Since T'Challa leans more on tech than the mystical stuff anyways, like you mentioend earlier, enhacing T'Challa on the tech side of things while Shuri got mystical enhancements made enough sense.
    None of what you've said in this post makes a blind bit of sense for the simple fact that T'Challa's entire KOTD upgrades where transplanted over to a character who didn't need them.

    Shuri was already a well developed character who had gone from strength to strength dating back to when Reginald Hudlin introduced her into the BP Mythos.

    Irrespective of whatever misgivings I had as regards Jonathan Mayberry, he carried on from where Hudlin left off, and actually had Shuri stepping up to the plate and leading Wakanda's defense from the front during Doomwar.

    And though his overall handling of T'Challa during the aforementioned Doomwar was nothing short of ridiculous,been he had T'Challa developing Shadow Physics and particle edged weapons tech that was not reliant on Wakandan Vibranium as a power source.

    Maberry also had T'Challa exploring mystical means to enhance himself which arguably paved the way for Hickman's introduction of the KOTD evolution in the latter part of his Fantastic Four run leading on into his New Avengers work centered around the Illuminati and their struggle against the Incursion threats.

    Under Maberry's pen, mysticism and science were both solidly integrated into T'Challa's repertoire whilst Shuri and her Midnight Angels were very much rooted in hard tech based armour and associated weaponry.

    This false narrative of Shuri supposedly having no special skills to speak of previously, is somewhat amusing for the simple fact that Shuri proved to be a solid leader focussed on the defense of Wakanda against all threats with the full support of most Wakandans tired with T'Challa's divided loyalties.

    She was a fearless leader but still loyal to her brother and capable of coordinating with him to thwart threats to their homeland as clearly indicates in Al Ewings excellent "Kingpin of Wakanda" storyline.

    Failing to see the infinite story possibilities that were open to explore T'Challa's growth and evolution as a character through his KOTD upgrades is one that lies solely at the feet if writers who in the long run, seem more invested in keeping him treading stagnant water whilst supporting characters are given all of his powers and established characteristics.

    Hopefully, the HP Mythos will be blessed with a talented writer genuinely interested in writing T'Challa properly within his own solo book but until then, I suppose milquetoast BP is all that's on Coates itinerary.
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  8. #8078
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post


    I remember thinking that this was going to lead to exciting things. So much potential wasted from this "upgrade". Nothing about his abilities and skills changed. T'Challa had always been connected to the souls of past Black Panthers and since becoming KoTD the only time I can think of his ancestors being useful was when the one queen told him that Zawavari was alive and that's it. 10,000+ years worth of BP's knowledge ended up being completely useless while Shuri's Djalia trips provide all the answers.
    Thanks for posting thus awesome panel.

    Sometimes, we need reminding of the actual facts as printed in the books as opposed to speculation.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

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  9. #8079
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    The difference though is T'Challas tech though so.e may appear to be an ass pull, it's still things or close to things we have seen in the past. The solar flare used with Stark Looks to be an extension of the force push, just like the consecrated napalm blast. The gamma shield is an extension of Hickmans energy shield. Energy swords from the daggers, etc etc. It's not so ass pull.

    Shuri all of a sudden being able to change sizes have super strength from past Wakandans that AREN'T black panthers yet are somehow older then BPs and existed long before them (even though bashenga was supposed to be the one from The start) completely stupid ass pull, especially because when she was getting her powers from the start she had 3 and there was no sign of other's.

    There are better ways to give magic. She could of learned from zawavari, she could of learned magic in a way that doesn't isht on the mythos or give her qotd powers but Coates HAD to isht on the mythos, he couldn't resist while saying that her power is superior to T'Challas through complete ass pull and giving her T'Challas personality and claiming T'Challa always wears his heart on his sleeve while Shuri is the pragmatic one. Which is completely opposite of what's been established
    How anyone could wilfully remain ignorant to the above, is baffling to me but not unexpected.

    Excellent post my bro.

    It really is good to be back.
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  10. #8080
    Futurist Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    The difference though is T'Challas tech though so.e may appear to be an ass pull, it's still things or close to things we have seen in the past. The solar flare used with Stark Looks to be an extension of the force push, just like the consecrated napalm blast. The gamma shield is an extension of Hickmans energy shield. Energy swords from the daggers, etc etc. It's not so ass pull.

    Shuri all of a sudden being able to change sizes have super strength from past Wakandans that AREN'T black panthers yet are somehow older then BPs and existed long before them (even though bashenga was supposed to be the one from The start) completely stupid ass pull, especially because when she was getting her powers from the start she had 3 and there was no sign of other's.

    There are better ways to give magic. She could of learned from zawavari, she could of learned magic in a way that doesn't isht on the mythos or give her qotd powers but Coates HAD to isht on the mythos, he couldn't resist while saying that her power is superior to T'Challas through complete ass pull and giving her T'Challas personality and claiming T'Challa always wears his heart on his sleeve while Shuri is the pragmatic one. Which is completely opposite of what's been established
    Basically T'Challa has been sidelined in his own book for the last 2+ years. In that span, we got the Force Push, no defining wins and that was pretty much it.

    Meanwhile, everybody and their momma has shown up and saved they day and gotten upgrades.

    That's why I'll take Avengers and AoW. We get a T'Challa leading, in the field doing isht, the things you expect an Alpha character to be doing.

    What's happening in the solo is good for every character except BP.

  11. #8081
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post


    I remember thinking that this was going to lead to exciting things. So much potential wasted from this "upgrade". Nothing about his abilities and skills changed. T'Challa had always been connected to the souls of past Black Panthers and since becoming KoTD the only time I can think of his ancestors being useful was when the one queen told him that Zawavari was alive and that's it. 10,000+ years worth of BP's knowledge ended up being completely useless while Shuri's Djalia trips provide all the answers.
    Noting about his skills or abilities changed... and honestly I think that was the point. T'Challa was depwered at the time... the KOTD thing basically got him back to roughly status quo level (maybe a bit higher) without depowering Shuri. It was something he needed at the time... but once he became BP again, for the most part it was redundent.

  12. #8082
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    We don't know that for sure, though, even though it hasn't been shown. Hickman is known for not shoing a lot of stuff on panel that should be shown, like exactly how Black Panther took down Black Dwarf. Plus we have no way of knowing how powerfully strong strength-wise each individual previous Black Panther was. Some of them could have been superhumanly strong... just like at least ONE of them could levitate. It's possible that Black Panther beat Black Dwarf down with superhuman strength due to a superhumanly strong ancestor (although nearly breaking his hand).
    Yeah, it's fair to say we don't know for sure whether or not Bast statement of him having the power of the previous BP's was literal or not. I'm simply making what I consider to be a fair assumption based on his power levels being ROUGHLY the same. He might be a bit stronger, but it's sort of hard to tell. If we happen to see him doing something on panel which demonstrated greater than usual meta human strength, we can certainly reconsider the issue.

    For what it's worth, when Ewing gave a brief description of the Ultimates powers in the first issue, he described T'Challa with Enhanced strength. Carol for example was described as super strong. Not sure if that means anything though. Too bad they don't do those handbook things anymore. Those were handy back in the day.

  13. #8083
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    The difference though is T'Challas tech though so.e may appear to be an ass pull, it's still things or close to things we have seen in the past. The solar flare used with Stark Looks to be an extension of the force push, just like the consecrated napalm blast. The gamma shield is an extension of Hickmans energy shield. Energy swords from the daggers, etc etc. It's not so ass pull.

    Shuri all of a sudden being able to change sizes have super strength from past Wakandans that AREN'T black panthers yet are somehow older then BPs and existed long before them (even though bashenga was supposed to be the one from The start) completely stupid ass pull, especially because when she was getting her powers from the start she had 3 and there was no sign of other's.

    There are better ways to give magic. She could of learned from zawavari, she could of learned magic in a way that doesn't isht on the mythos or give her qotd powers but Coates HAD to isht on the mythos, he couldn't resist while saying that her power is superior to T'Challas through complete ass pull and giving her T'Challas personality and claiming T'Challa always wears his heart on his sleeve while Shuri is the pragmatic one. Which is completely opposite of what's been established
    I'm honestly not sure I would describe anti-magic consecrated napalm as a logical extension of the force push... but that aside, I'm honestly fine with all of that. Magic and high end tech work that way. YOu can pull out whatever the heck you need.

    Shuri's power is a bit more complicated. She potentially has the power of every previous Wakandan... but I don't think she automatically has access to it the minute she became Griot. I think she either has to meet or at least learn about that person in the realm of memories (or whatever the heck that place is) in order to gain the power. This has the potential to make Shuri over powered overtime ... but so far the writers have been pretty minimal as far as adding to her powers. Her biggest feat so far, the re-animation things, appears to apply only to Wakandans so we can probably assume she's less powerful outside of Wakanda.

    I do agree this could be a potential issue, in that writers could end up making her ridiculously powerful if they wanted too. But at least so far, her abilities have been largely passive in nature. She's difficult to fight, but not flat out uber powerful. At least at this point. We'll see if that changes.

    In the least, it does differentiate her powerset from T'Challa a good deal, which I think was the point. The tech stuff could never really do that, since T'Challa in theory can use whatever tech Shuri might be using too.

  14. #8084
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Noting about his skills or abilities changed... and honestly I think that was the point. T'Challa was depwered at the time... the KOTD thing basically got him back to roughly status quo level (maybe a bit higher) without depowering Shuri. It was something he needed at the time... but once he became BP again, for the most part it was redundent.
    The facts were clearly stated on panel so I'm really not sure what your basing your erroneous assertion on.

    The KOTD powers were unlike anything T'Challa had ever possessed as the Black Panther and as such, clearly differentiated him from Shuri as Wakanda's ruling Black Panther with all of the normal powers and abilities attendant to that role.

    Bast made it very clear that whilst Shuri would remain as Wakanda's Queen, T'Challa was Bast's personal champion.

    It was Hickman's responsibility as a writer to fully illustrate and expand upon who and what T'Challa had become post his KOTD rebirth.

    The fact that he did not do so but then went on to eventually write T'Challa as an empty threat slinging crybaby who couldn't even kill Manor properly, was merely another example of a writer building T'Challa up to the point of a climatic crescendo, only to leave him lying broken and limo at feet of his enemies having barely managed to eke out a pyrrhic victory.

    I understand the need for some to theorise and generally seek to guess as to what a writer intended but that kind of pales into irrelevance when what's actually in print, is right in front of the readers eyes.
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  15. #8085
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm honestly not sure I would describe anti-magic consecrated napalm as a logical extension of the force push... but that aside, I'm honestly fine with all of that. Magic and high end tech work that way. YOu can pull out whatever the heck you need.

    Shuri's power is a bit more complicated. She potentially has the power of every previous Wakandan... but I don't think she automatically has access to it the minute she became Griot. I think she either has to meet or at least learn about that person in the realm of memories (or whatever the heck that place is) in order to gain the power. This has the potential to make Shuri over powered overtime ... but so far the writers have been pretty minimal as far as adding to her powers. Her biggest feat so far, the re-animation things, appears to apply only to Wakandans so we can probably assume she's less powerful outside of Wakanda.

    I do agree this could be a potential issue, in that writers could end up making her ridiculously powerful if they wanted too. But at least so far, her abilities have been largely passive in nature. She's difficult to fight, but not flat out uber powerful. At least at this point. We'll see if that changes.

    In the least, it does differentiate her powerset from T'Challa a good deal, which I think was the point. The tech stuff could never really do that, since T'Challa in theory can use whatever tech Shuri might be using too.
    Again, everything depicted is an extension of existing tech. Even the napalm, look at how the habit interacts when he uses it.

    And again, Shuris power is basically KotD except it predates the Black panther lineage.. even though bashenga was supposed to be the one who United the people of Wakanda. Plus one of the djahlia person turkana was a BP as well.. yet she should of been with T'Challa and the other BPs right? That's the problem

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