Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[KingNomarch]

The T'Challa exhibited during CA:Civil War, was focused, tactical, supremely capable, confident and undeniable in the immediate aftermath of T'Chaka's murder.

He physically took on both Captain America and the Winter Soldier at different points in that movie both in and out of suit without losing a beat whilst maintainingthe presence of mind to stealthily track Baron Zemo's trail to its thematic end thus proving that even in his state of grief, he was still capable of applying his intellectual prowess and ability to show mercy.

I didn't really get any of that vibe in the BP solo other than within the opening segment set in the Nigerian forest and I'm sorry to say that my opinion as regards Coogler's take on T'Challa is getting worse following repeated viewings of the movie.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Coogler incorporating a lot of Coates wackness into the next BP solo movie to be quite frank.

Compared to the BP in CW, Coogler's handling was the better tactician and far superior handling of his abilities.

There wasn't much tactical to any of his "plans" in CW which mostly amounted to attack Bucky on sight. The only times I can say he was when he jumped on Bucky on the roof and decided to wait in the back during the third act.

When it comes to his fights against Bucky and his fight against Cap, people seem to forget that for all of them Bucky wasn't trying to kill or hurt him and Cap definitely wasn't going all out.

His first fight with Bucky, it's obvious that Bucky is more concerned with escaping than fighting a stranger in a black cat suit. During their second fight Bucky was in WS mode but still more focusing on escaping than fighting and it ends with him ghosting T'Challa and T'Challa incapable of finding him.

During their last fight, Bucky was dominating T'Challa throughout. T'Challa couldn't land a single blow on Bucky until Bucky had stopped to reason with him. If he was Terminator Bucky from TWS then CW T'Challa would've been beat based off his showings there.

I found his fight with Cap to be his most disappointing yet not counting that embarrassing moment against Thanos. Arguably the two best fighters in the MU and T'Challa is barely capable of landing a blow on Cap who is holding back and is only trying to keep him from reaching Bucky. To make matters worse he had WM helping him and they both still couldn't get past him. With help T'Challa only landed 1/9 blows against Cap.

If Bucky and Cap were fighting him like during their fight in the street in TWS or fighting serious like the final battle in CW then I'd beat more impressed with his showing in CW where everyone was holding back not to hurt anyone besides T'Challa who was on "rage mode" and loses 99% of his fights.

The only fight that can be said that T'Challa wins during CW was against Hawkeye and that's like bragging that someone could beat Yamcha. But Hawkeye lasted a lot.longer against him than anyone "normal" person when fighting someone with SS level stats and even restraining him for a period of time.

The one fight in the forest was far better than all his showings in CW. There isn't a single moment in CW where his tactical skills are as good as they are in there or his other abilities. Throwing ppl through trucks, taking ppl out without hesitation, properly utilizing his resources. There literally isn't a single comparable feat in his whole CW appearance than that one scene besides maybe showing he's bulletproof.

All around Coogler did a much better job the only things he'd need to improve on are the master prep skills from Priest, adding energy daggers, and doing a bit more with the force push.

[skyvolt2000]

When I say “we” it’s more of an acknowledgement that WE as a culture are not ready to acknowledge the greatness of the black female form. With all due respect, this post of yours goes a long way to reinforcing my beliefs. I’m not sure how the sudden emergence of Shuri’s genius level intellect would somehow suggest that that aspect of T’Challa’s essence was stripped away? How did you come to that conclusion? I certainly didn’t. The king I saw was more than capable of keeping up with his little sister in the science lab. Why does Shuri’s new station appear to infringe upon T’Challa’s in your opinion? I’m not saying that we couldn’t use more emphasis on his brand of genius level intellectual flexing, but I’m also not going to say that it was completely absent from the movie.

Okay I think the gripe is you can build up whomever you want but don't do it at the EXPENSE of a black male.

Let me give a example-

Old school Static in the not in trades original run-TRAINED HIMSELF, found his OWN hideout, MADE his OWN stuff. His sidekick was a white girl-who became his wife and mother of twins. Gave UP a girlfriend because he was a super hero. Rejected another girl who LUSTED after him. He saved the universe in a crossover with Milestone & Superman. He was Urkel.
This was from 1993-1997 under Dwayne McDuffie. No outside inference.

2000-NOW Hello interference, bad editors & so on
Cartoon Static needed a white boy to make him things.
Terror Titans Static was such a bad AZZ-he had to be sedated. Yet was bad enough to make Deathstroke's daughter his bytch.
New 52 Static had to have HARDWARE train him and make all his stuff.
Young Justice Static-needed Black Lighting to train him and can't get a girlfriend.

So how does this nerd go from having to do for self to needing his hand held by others?

If that is not a good enough example-Miles Morales.
BOOK Miles Morales only got his suit from Shield & Peter's old web shooters from Aunt May. While learning on the fly like Static.
Movie Miles got EVERYTHING from white folks.
We won't talk IDW Miles Morales.

How does Black Panther go from making Falcon's wings and a version of Cap America's shield and being this bad azz under OTHER writers to what he is now?

See we are all old school Panther fans here. One of the MAJOR issues that is not limited to Panther but others like Static (under New 52 & Young Justice). What got them to the dance and to the movies, tv shows and so on keep getting taken away to PANDER to whoever.

It's one thing if we saw growth and not regression like we see with a Batman or Superman or what is being done (without Storm) in X-Men.

What we are seeing is pandering. Pandering to fake woke crowd.

[Ezyo1000]

Compared to the BP in CW, Coogler's handling was the better tactician and far superior handling of his abilities.

There wasn't much tactical to any of his "plans" in CW which mostly amounted to attack Bucky on sight. The only times I can say he was when he jumped on Bucky on the roof and decided to wait in the back during the third act.

When it comes to his fights against Bucky and his fight against Cap, people seem to forget that for all of them Bucky wasn't trying to kill or hurt him and Cap definitely wasn't going all out.

His first fight with Bucky, it's obvious that Bucky is more concerned with escaping than fighting a stranger in a black cat suit. During their second fight Bucky was in WS mode but still more focusing on escaping than fighting and it ends with him ghosting T'Challa and T'Challa incapable of finding him.

During their last fight, Bucky was dominating T'Challa throughout. T'Challa couldn't land a single blow on Bucky until Bucky had stopped to reason with him. If he was Terminator Bucky from TWS then CW T'Challa would've been beat based off his showings there.

I found his fight with Cap to be his most disappointing yet not counting that embarrassing moment against Thanos. Arguably the two best fighters in the MU and T'Challa is barely capable of landing a blow on Cap who is holding back and is only trying to keep him from reaching Bucky. To make matters worse he had WM helping him and they both still couldn't get past him. With help T'Challa only landed 1/9 blows against Cap.

If Bucky and Cap were fighting him like during their fight in the street in TWS or fighting serious like the final battle in CW then I'd beat more impressed with his showing in CW where everyone was holding back not to hurt anyone besides T'Challa who was on "rage mode" and loses 99% of his fights.

The only fight that can be said that T'Challa wins during CW was against Hawkeye and that's like bragging that someone could beat Yamcha. But Hawkeye lasted a lot.longer against him than anyone "normal" person when fighting someone with SS level stats and even restraining him for a period of time.

The one fight in the forest was far better than all his showings in CW. There isn't a single moment in CW where his tactical skills are as good as they are in there or his other abilities. Throwing ppl through trucks, taking ppl out without hesitation, properly utilizing his resources. There literally isn't a single comparable feat in his whole CW appearance than that one scene besides maybe showing he's bulletproof.

All around Coogler did a much better job the only things he'd need to improve on are the master prep skills from Priest, adding energy daggers, and doing a bit more with the force push.

This mostly true, except for the Bucky scenes. Every scene against Bucky he dominated him that much is true, even in ws mode he only was escaping after the realized he couldn't over power him like he did Tony, Natasha, and agent 13. Butni agree with the showing with cap it wad definitely stunted and uninspiring, granted It caps movie, but cotdamn after watching the movie after the initial hype, you start to see the cracks.

[Mr MajestiK]

Pretty sure Ezyo and I have answered the bolded multiple times.

I take extended breaks from this forum quite often, so it's more than likely that I missed these posts.

In any case, I'd be more than grateful if you or anyone else posting herein would be so kind as to expound on why T'Challa is the only MU super genius level intellect to be short changed in this capacity as regards his depiction within the MCU?

If Coates wack "farce push" made into the BP solo movie why couldn't his short range teleportation tech highlighted by Hickman in his Hew Avengersrun, do the same?

[Mr MajestiK]

Compared to the BP in CW, Coogler's handling was the better tactician and far superior handling of his abilities.

There wasn't much tactical to any of his "plans" in CW which mostly amounted to attack Bucky on sight. The only times I can say he was when he jumped on Bucky on the roof and decided to wait in the back during the third act.

When it comes to his fights against Bucky and his fight against Cap, people seem to forget that for all of them Bucky wasn't trying to kill or hurt him and Cap definitely wasn't going all out.

His first fight with Bucky, it's obvious that Bucky is more concerned with escaping than fighting a stranger in a black cat suit. During their second fight Bucky was in WS mode but still more focusing on escaping than fighting and it ends with him ghosting T'Challa and T'Challa incapable of finding him.

During their last fight, Bucky was dominating T'Challa throughout. T'Challa couldn't land a single blow on Bucky until Bucky had stopped to reason with him. If he was Terminator Bucky from TWS then CW T'Challa would've been beat based off his showings there.

I found his fight with Cap to be his most disappointing yet not counting that embarrassing moment against Thanos. Arguably the two best fighters in the MU and T'Challa is barely capable of landing a blow on Cap who is holding back and is only trying to keep him from reaching Bucky. To make matters worse he had WM helping him and they both still couldn't get past him. With help T'Challa only landed 1/9 blows against Cap.

If Bucky and Cap were fighting him like during their fight in the street in TWS or fighting serious like the final battle in CW then I'd beat more impressed with his showing in CW where everyone was holding back not to hurt anyone besides T'Challa who was on "rage mode" and loses 99% of his fights.

The only fight that can be said that T'Challa wins during CW was against Hawkeye and that's like bragging that someone could beat Yamcha. But Hawkeye lasted a lot.longer against him than anyone "normal" person when fighting someone with SS level stats and even restraining him for a period of time.

The one fight in the forest was far better than all his showings in CW. There isn't a single moment in CW where his tactical skills are as good as they are in there or his other abilities. Throwing ppl through trucks, taking ppl out without hesitation, properly utilizing his resources. There literally isn't a single comparable feat in his whole CW appearance than that one scene besides maybe showing he's bulletproof.

All around Coogler did a much better job the only things he'd need to improve on are the master prep skills from Priest, adding energy daggers, and doing a bit more with the force push.

So basically, what you're acknowledging here, is that T'Challa's best and most unambiguous action scene was against baseline/unenhanced opponents in a jungle setting?

Cool beans bro.

[Mr MajestiK]

Okay I think the gripe is you can build up whomever you want but don't do it at the EXPENSE of a black male.

Let me give a example-

Old school Static in the not in trades original run-TRAINED HIMSELF, found his OWN hideout, MADE his OWN stuff. His sidekick was a white girl-who became his wife and mother of twins. Gave UP a girlfriend because he was a super hero. Rejected another girl who LUSTED after him. He saved the universe in a crossover with Milestone & Superman. He was Urkel.
This was from 1993-1997 under Dwayne McDuffie. No outside inference.

2000-NOW Hello interference, bad editors & so on
Cartoon Static needed a white boy to make him things.
Terror Titans Static was such a bad AZZ-he had to be sedated. Yet was bad enough to make Deathstroke's daughter his bytch.
New 52 Static had to have HARDWARE train him and make all his stuff.
Young Justice Static-needed Black Lighting to train him and can't get a girlfriend.

So how does this nerd go from having to do for self to needing his hand held by others?

If that is not a good enough example-Miles Morales.
BOOK Miles Morales only got his suit from Shield & Peter's old web shooters from Aunt May. While learning on the fly like Static.
Movie Miles got EVERYTHING from white folks.
We won't talk IDW Miles Morales.

How does Black Panther go from making Falcon's wings and a version of Cap America's shield and being this bad azz under OTHER writers to what he is now?

See we are all old school Panther fans here. One of the MAJOR issues that is not limited to Panther but others like Static (under New 52 & Young Justice). What got them to the dance and to the movies, tv shows and so on keep getting taken away to PANDER to whoever.

It's one thing if we saw growth and not regression like we see with a Batman or Superman or what is being done (without Storm) in X-Men.

What we are seeing is pandering. Pandering to fake woke crowd.

Some folks actually get it.

Thanks for being one of those folks.

[Cville]

I take extended breaks from this forum quite often, so it's more than likely that I missed these posts.

In any case, I'd be more than grateful if you or anyone else posting herein would be so kind as to expound on why T'Challa is the only MU super genius level intellect to be short changed in this capacity as regards his depiction within the MCU?

If Coates wack "farce push" made into the BP solo movie why couldn't his short range teleportation tech highlighted by Hickman in his Hew Avengersrun, do the same?

My argument is that his genius is there. The Civil War suit, the EMP beads are his. And if you except Hudlin version some of the tech will exist before he is even born. An example being a version of the Talon fighter already existing when he is 12ish I guess.

In most BP stories, his science intellect is rarely used as a plot point. They more talk about is intelligence than show it. His best stories are when he is doing psudo espionage. For me his scientific genius intellect isn't all that special in the superhero community. Everybody invents something nowadays. Hawkeye even makes his own tech arrow. Most Marvel children are geniuses. It might have been special in the 70s when its only a handful of people, but now its just standard.

I look for the combination of multiple elements that make him a match for anyone.

[Mr MajestiK]

This mostly true, except for the Bucky scenes. Every scene against Bucky he dominated him that much is true, even in ws mode he only was escaping after the realized he couldn't over power him like he did Tony, Natasha, and agent 13. Butni agree with the showing with cap it wad definitely stunted and uninspiring, granted It caps movie, but cotdamn after watching the movie after the initial hype, you start to see the cracks.

There were a lot of cracks in CA:CW.

None of T'Challa's scenes in that movie fell into that category in my humble opinion.

As far as pure action movies go within the MCU, very few if any, match up against Captain America: Winter Soldier which to me, remains the hands down A+ Action/Espionage 24esque movie that Marvel have put out bar none.

That elevator scene where Steve Roger's is surrounded by fully trained SHIELD/HYDRA Agents and still beats all of them to a pulp still gives me thrills to this very day.

I only get the feeling when I watch Okoye throwing down in the casino scene in the BP movie or when Killmonger beat T'Challa to a pulp during their tribal fight at the waterfall.

Does this mean that I'm not a genuine BP enthusiast?

Of course not.

I just want to see T'Challa's full capabilities and character traits displayed accurately within his solo movies and solo book respectively.

I don't want to see Eden relegating T'Challa's teleportation tech to the background or have Storm bring turned into an "goddess" in a BP solo when no one in the X-office either recognises her as being or portrays her as within her own family of books over in the X-verse.

T'Challa and Wakanda deserve much better than what's been on display in his supposedly solo book.

[Mr MajestiK]

My argument is that his genius is there. The Civil War suit, the EMP beads are his. And if you except Hudlin version some of the tech will exist before he is even born. An example being a version of the Talon fighter already existing when he is 12ish I guess.

In most BP stories, his science intellect is rarely used as a plot point. They more talk about is intelligence than show it. His best stories are when he is doing psudo espionage. For me his scientific genius intellect isn't all that special in the superhero community. Everybody invents something nowadays. Hawkeye even makes his own tech arrow. Most Marvel children are geniuses. It might have been special in the 70s when its only a handful of people, but now its just standard.

I look for the combination of multiple elements that make him a match for anyone.

No one else in the MU created Shadow Physics, The Nowhere Room or the particle edged weaponry T'Challa developed and deployed during Doomwar which even took Doom himself, by surprise.

Stark has his Repulsor tech, Richard's has his Unstable Molecule tech whilst Doom and Pym have their Time Travel and Pym Particle innovations on record.

What exactly does T'Challa have as his own signature tech that is clearly acknowledged and utilised within the MU?

Most of the time, dude is shown using other characters existing tech advances such as the cosmic power draining tech and nano devices devised by Doom or armaments such as the Black Knight's Ebony Blade.

When do we get to see T'Challa consistently using his own self generated tech that's acknowledged within the MU as being unique to T'Challa himself?

[Cville]

Apparently there was a Wakandan at the anti-mutant meeting at the beginning of X-force #1. No identifications, but it appears the artist was allowed to use Wakandan clothing for the character seated next to Domino.

That red line in the House or Powers of X issue looking mighty tasty. lol

[Kasper Cole]

My only issue with T'challa in Civil War is that let Demo live. That was BS, T'Challa doesn't have a no killing rule. I'm the solo film T'challa was rightfully called out for giving demo to the U.S. and not killing Klaw.

The events of Infinity War and endgame should result in T'Challa being more like the version we know and love. He can have a desire to help the outside world but not at the expense of his homeland. He should also be more prepared than ever before.

[Cville]

No one else in the MU created Shadow Physics, The Nowhere Room or the particle edged weaponry T'Challa developed and deployed during Doomwar which even took Doom himself, by surprise.

Stark has his Repulsor tech, Richard's has his Unstable Molecule tech whilst Doom and Pym have their Time Travel and Pym Particle innovations on record.

What exactly does T'Challa have as his own signature tech that is clearly acknowledged and utilised within the MU?

Most of the time, dude is shown using other characters existing tech advances such as the cosmic power draining tech and nano devices devised by Doom or armaments such as the Black Knight's Ebony Blade.

When do we get to see T'Challa consistently using his own self generated tech that's acknowledged within the MU as being unique to T'Challa himself?

But he doesn't fit any of those characters. All those character backgrounds are based on technology. In that respect he is closer to Spider-Man. Smart and uses tech, but its not what defines him as a character. It does define the people you've listed.

[Kasper Cole]

Apparently there was a Wakandan at the anti-mutant meeting at the beginning of X-force #1. No identifications, but it appears the artist was allowed to use Wakandan clothing for the character seated next to Domino.

That red line in the House or Powers of X issue looking mighty tasty. lol

,

Well that's bull considering it's been established that Wakanda is supposed to have more mutants than most nations. They're not anti mutant, they're anti outsiders.

[Kasper Cole]

No one else in the MU created Shadow Physics, The Nowhere Room or the particle edged weaponry T'Challa developed and deployed during Doomwar which even took Doom himself, by surprise.

Stark has his Repulsor tech, Richard's has his Unstable Molecule tech whilst Doom and Pym have their Time Travel and Pym Particle innovations on record.

What exactly does T'Challa have as his own signature tech that is clearly acknowledged and utilised within the MU?

Most of the time, dude is shown using other characters existing tech advances such as the cosmic power draining tech and nano devices devised by Doom or armaments such as the Black Knight's Ebony Blade.

When do we get to see T'Challa consistently using his own self generated tech that's acknowledged within the MU as being unique to T'Challa himself?

Before the first Avengers film Marvel did a good job of crediting T'Challa with the creation of the Quinnjets.

[Cville]

,

Well that's bull considering it's been established that Wakanda is supposed to have more mutants than most nations. They're not anti mutant, they're anti outsiders.

What is the citation for that? Was it mentioned when they introduced the school or something?