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  1. #7786
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Coates Shuri is just an odd duck.

    Like, I see what he is going for. That old school Wakandan hard line type stuff. Which kinda fits, she's been a bit more like that once she became queen and onward

    But he turns the dial up 10 levels which makes it just seem odd and then adds a dose of "shes talks like a college lit class professor" which makes it seem even weirder lol


    And then at the same time, you have this other Shuri running around who acts like MCU shuri

    Shits bizarre lol
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  2. #7787
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Exactly, I wasn't even looking at that. But what type bullisht is that? its completely inaccurate yet people who don't know better and only know Coates BP will eat that isht up because he has an agenda. The BP mythos deserves better than to suffer under Coates nonsensical offensive take on Wakanda and Africa
    The simple matter is that if we are critical of Coates some people will claim we are biased. Criticism isn't hate.

    Everyone who has been critical of Coates has presented evidence to back up their claims.

    And it's not just Coates. Every BP writer has been critiqued by just about every BP fan and there have been issues pointed out.

    Some people see Coates initial sales as proof he writes a good BP. But the way he wrote T'Challa had nothing to do with the success.

    Ayo and Aneka brought in a certain fanbase.

    Wakanda in turmoil brought in a fan base.

    Storm brought in a fan base.

    All of this at the expense of T'Challa who was so watered down many BP fans didn't recognize him.

    But much of the other Coates supporters are gone because their favorite characters are no longer prominent and the luster is gone.

    What's left are the BP supporters who have been through the good, the bad and the ugly and the problems they brought up with Coates are still there despite the pretty pictures.

    Nothing has changed since the very 1st issue imo.

  3. #7788
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Coates Shuri is just an odd duck.

    Like, I see what he is going for. That old school Wakandan hard line type stuff. Which kinda fits, she's been a bit more like that once she became queen and onward

    But he turns the dial up 10 levels which makes it just seem odd and then adds a dose of "shes talks like a college lit class professor" which makes it seem even weirder lol


    And then at the same time, you have this other Shuri running around who acts like MCU shuri

    Shits bizarre lol
    I actually miss Shuri taking the hardline Wakandan stance which T'Challa, as a super hero never could. She can order entire cities be destroyed and shrug it off... T'Challa can bluff it, but it's questionable he would actually go there unless it was absolutely necessary. Even though I don't entirely agree with Shuri's hardline stance, I thought there was some value in having a character with it in the story.

    Current Shuri is basically lighter than even T'Challa, so that element is sort of lost.

  4. #7789
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Black Panther #15

    18,419



    ummmm what just happened? That drop is massive?
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  5. #7790
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Black Panther #15

    18,419



    ummmm what just happened? That drop is massive?
    Again, all of the readers from various fanbases that Coates initially brought in are gone.

    The casual BP fan has moved on.

    The hardcore BP fan has had it.

    The stories, characters and dialogue is weak. The art is saving the book but it's not enough.

    The next arc from Coates will feature lots of action, some "badass" moments, guest stars and some "name" villains, al in an attempt to stop hemorrhaging readers.


  6. #7791
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Again, all of the readers from various fanbases that Coates initially brought in are gone.

    The casual BP fan has moved on.

    The hardcore BP fan has had it.

    The stories, characters and dialogue is weak. The art is saving the book but it's not enough.



    They shouldn't have teased "we find out what happens!!!" on more than on occasion.

    Finally got to what happened and no one gave a shit I guess lol.

    Storm on the cover ain't go no pull, eh? lol

    The next arc from Coates will feature lots of action, some "badass" moments, guest stars and some "name" villains, al in an attempt to stop hemorrhaging readers.
    You forgot the re-numbering and variants lol

    Sigh, any real comic writer would have been tying into Avengers stuff and AoW stuff to boost sales.

    Captain Marvel, with Kelly Thompsons, a fan favorite comic writer instead of a multitude of novelists and such, actually turned CM into a seller, doubling Panther's sales this month.
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 09-16-2019 at 08:58 AM.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  7. #7792
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    They shouldn't have teased "we find out what happens!!!" on more than on occasion.

    Finally got to what happened and no one gave a shit I guess lol.

    Storm on the cover ain't go no pull, eh? lol
    Storm is doing the same thing here that's she's doing in the X-books. Nothing.

    Finding out what happened took too long, readers got bored.

    And despite what the "intellectuals" think, you had better have your hero kicking major ass on panel.

    People who don't think that it helps should remember Liss. His run didn't last long or have high sales but nearly all BP fans hold it in high regard and it's memorable in a good way.

    Coates will be remembered for good art, mediocre stories and low-balling BP.

  8. #7793
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    There was a poster that was waiting for that below 20,000 hit. Can't remember his name though.

  9. #7794

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I actually miss Shuri taking the hardline Wakandan stance which T'Challa, as a super hero never could. She can order entire cities be destroyed and shrug it off... T'Challa can bluff it, but it's questionable he would actually go there unless it was absolutely necessary. Even though I don't entirely agree with Shuri's hardline stance, I thought there was some value in having a character with it in the story.

    Current Shuri is basically lighter than even T'Challa, so that element is sort of lost.
    “Hardline” Shuri could be found in the Ironheart book. Very refreshing and I really wish the “Shuri” book leaned towards a similar interpretation of the character.

    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    Honestly, I don’t wanna go too far off the deep end, but it makes me wanna cry sometimes. Truly. The push for to T’Challa to be this machine devoid of human emotion is plain bullshit. Excuse my language, but it is. He’s a man. A black man, a black fuckin king worthy of displaying human emotion without being thought of as less than. He ain’t no fuckin animal even though he can move like his namesake. This attitude or idea that he should have taken care of Killmonger without a second thought is asinine. As a human being he saw the boy that his father left in America fully grown into this monster of their own making. It’s easy to succumb mainstream brainwashing and see another black man as an automatic threat, but it takes a greater to extend his hand in love and acceptance.
    If I may ask, have you read the Priest run of the Black Panther books? That run had a great balance of T’Challa being a physical and political force, while being simultaneously being pushed to the brink mentally and emotionally.

    Obviously no writer is expected to write exactly or even similarly to Priest (every writer will have their own interpretations of the character), but if there’s one thing Coates T’Challa lacks imho is that balance. He’s def pushed emotionally and mentally from various angles, but is he shown as a physical force? I’m can’t say he is (the intergalactic empire arc is trying to change that, but the fact that T’Challa didn’t know who he was for most of the arc sours things for many longtime readers, I suspect). Politically, his presence is definitely there but it feels more subtle and/or subdued this time around.

    A big draw of T’Challa is him being that (sometimes overt) physical / political force who is also a ruler of a nation. Coates aims for a subtle approach to that (I think) and it does work in some cases (T’Challa and Thunderball is a great example of that, and I personally think that T’Challa convincing Changamire to switch sides was a good example too) but the problem is that the aforementioned force, that emphatic presence, from previous runs isn’t there. T’Challa is a king, and sometimes being emphatic is part of the job (and creates cool, if not great narrative moments).

    MCU T’Challa managed to achieve that balance, though from a different angle. Ultimately, I think Coates just sees T’Challa very differently from a good amount of longtime fans (myself included), which explains the overall reception his run gets in this thread.
    Last edited by Realdealholy; 09-16-2019 at 09:34 AM.

  10. #7795
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    The bar/goalposts may be lowered to 15,000.

    But I don't see Coates going anywhere soon. Legacy number is at 187 so he want's to hit the 200 issue milestone.

    Like I said earlier, Coates will go heavy on action and give BP some big wins. Acuna might be gone and a lesser known artist might be on tap.

    This will be an attempt to stop the book from falling even more.

    And it will face some competition for readers from Agents of Wakanda, especially if that book comes out kicking butts and has T'Challa pulling out feats.

  11. #7796
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    “Hardline” Shuri could be found in the Ironheart book. Very refreshing and I really wish the “Shuri” boom leaned towards a similar interpretation of the character.
    They really need to pic a lane for her. It is all over the place right now.

    Welcome back btw
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  12. #7797
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Been awhile, taken from here: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    Coates:




    Full Publication:




    Avengers:

    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  13. #7798
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    “Hardline” Shuri could be found in the Ironheart book. Very refreshing and I really wish the “Shuri” boom leaned towards a similar interpretation of the character.



    If I may ask, have you read the Priest run of the Black Panther books? That run had a great balance of T’Challa being a physical and political force, while being simultaneously being pushed to the brink mentally and emotionally.

    Obviously no writer is expected to write exactly or even similarly to Priest (every writer will have their own interpretations of the character), but if there’s one thing Coates T’Challa lacks imho is that balance. He’s def pushed emotionally and mentally from various angles, but is he shown as a physical force? I’m can’t say he is (the intergalactic empire arc is trying to change that, but the fact that T’Challa didn’t know who he was for most of the arc sours things for many longtime readers, I suspect). Politically, his presence is definitely there but it feels more subtle and/or subdued this time around.

    A big draw of T’Challa is him being that (sometimes overt) physical / political force who is also a ruler of a nation. Coates aims for a subtle approach to that (I think) and it does work in some cases (T’Challa and Thunderball is a great example of that, and I personally think that T’Challa convincing Changamire to switch sides was a good example too) but the problem is that the aforementioned force, that emphatic presence, from previous runs isn’t there. T’Challa is a king, and sometimes being emphatic is part of the job (and creates cool, if not great narrative moments).

    MCU T’Challa managed to achieve that balance, though from a different angle. Ultimately, I think Coates just sees T’Challa very differently from a good amount of longtime fans (myself included), which explains the overall reception his run gets in this thread.
    Good points. I just wanted to touch on the highlighted portions. We all expected T'Challa to be a political force on our Earth. That's what was implied in Ultimates and at the end of Secret War. None of that happened in Coates run. Not unless you count the meeting with despots.


  14. #7799

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    They really need to pic a lane for her. It is all over the place right now.

    Welcome back btw
    I think the MCU will somewhat head that direction (not has emphatically as the comics but around the ballpark) as MCU Shuri gets older. The comics will course-correct from there.

    Wish I could post here more, but life has been a lot busy lately lol. I barely post in the Shuri thread too, as a result.

  15. #7800
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post
    I think the MCU will somewhat head that direction (not has emphatically as the comics but around the ballpark) as MCU Shuri gets older. The comics will course-correct from there.

    Wish I could post here more, but life has been a lot busy lately lol. I barely post in the Shuri thread too, as a result.
    I feel ya. Work and health had me down for a minute.

    Luckily for me things improved.


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