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  1. #5551
    Astonishing Member Dboi654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Morph View Post
    I'm sorry, but if its between Achebe and Namor? Namor all the way.

    I just don't feel like Achebe would be an appealing enough villain in a post-Thanos/Phase 4 MCU. I'm not thinking from the perspective of a die-hard BP fan, rather a cbm/blockbuster film fan and with global audiences in mind. You have the sequel to one of the biggest superhero films of all time, you want to up the ante in every category.

    With Namor, you get the promise of a bigger scale, spectacle, greater feats for T'Challa/Wakanda.etc. Plus, it's an easier sell even to people who are just learning about Namor for the first time. It's essentially BP vs. MCU Aquaman. Even a lot of folks who hated/disappointed with the first film will be back on board.

    Heck, you can still throw Achebe in there as the mastermind that incites the conflict between Wakanda and Atlantis.

    -
    Similar to what I was thinking.

    But honestly I don't really care who the villain will be as long as the story is good and the villain fits well in to the story. Kingpin is officially a spider-man villain but was the main villain in the best Daredevil story arc ever (Born Again).

    The writing is key regardless of who the villain will be.

  2. #5552
    Astonishing Member Dboi654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    You are going to run into a group fans who favor use more traditional black panther villains than anyone outside of wide scope that group. With the thinking being Black Panther doesn't need outside help to boost him up and it is better in the long run to improve the core group of villains of Black Panther. Basically if the writers do there job Achebe can be as big as Namor and with M'Baku,Klaw, and Killmonger all being excellent and basically household names to those who have watch the movie they have good reason to think that way.

    I can see both side of the argument,Now everytime I see Achebe I see the freaking Sock puppet and wonder WTF are BP fans thinking but M'Baku was also pretty garbage imo and they reworked him into something pretty amazing so I don't see why the same thing couldn't happen. In the past I might have favored Dr Doom or Namor for the sure fire star power but now I think I more favor stuff that help Black Panther overall health. I think the BP movie and cartoon have done amazing job at fixing the weakest area of Black Panther as a character. I actually think that leaning on Black Panther rogue gallery and reworking them in other media generally means that they get reworked in the comics. Which elevates the BP more in general. Look at this way if it is going to be so big why not do seperate Black Panther vs Namor film, So Black Panther 1,2,3 AND special cross over film. That is an extra film with Black Panther as a mini event I mean Civil War could easily been called Avengers movie. I believe it has been said Marvel is moving away from the long super connected narrative smaller shorter stuff so we will get more films like Civil War than stuff like Infinity War/Endgame.
    You do kind of need the the BP movies or other MCU films to kind of build that up that will eventually lead mini event or cross over movie and not make the mistake of just introducing the characters against each other i.e Batman V Superman. But folks don't really want non bp related characters/villains to appear in any of the BP movies so I don't know how that's going to work.

  3. #5553
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Morph View Post
    I'm sorry, but if its between Achebe and Namor? Namor all the way.

    I just don't feel like Achebe would be an appealing enough villain in a post-Thanos/Phase 4 MCU. I'm not thinking from the perspective of a die-hard BP fan, rather a cbm/blockbuster film fan and with global audiences in mind. You have the sequel to one of the biggest superhero films of all time, you want to up the ante in every category.


    -
    The problem is, you can't.

    You can't out spectacle Infinity War or End Game.

    On paper, there is nothing "appealing" about Killmonger. Comic Killmonger's stories are pretty small scale (focused on T'challa hate only). And hell, on paper, MCU Killmonger must of given Disney execs a heart attack.

    "Wait, so you are saying the bad guy is a mad black guy who wants to take over the good black guys metal to make weapons to unite black people to rise up against white people?????"

    Disney old white dude execs either died of a heart attack right there or bursted out laughing thinking it was a joke.


    If Namor is involved, he can't have Achebe "inciting" it because that means Namor isn't a true villain in the movie. Which means you are wasting precious movie time on a character you have to build up to be misunderstood, manipulated, and who can be used in other MCU properties. AKA, taking away movie time from T'challa, Okoye, Shuri, M'baku, Ramonda, W'kabi, and the movies "true villain..." why would you want this? As a black panther fan anyway, I can see why a Namor fan would.

    If Namor is involved, he has to be the real, main villain, and he has to take those hands like every other main villain. BP franchise isn't a stepping stone for other people. It IS the franchise.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  4. #5554
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    You are going to run into a group fans who favor use more traditional black panther villains than anyone outside of wide scope that group. With the thinking being Black Panther doesn't need outside help to boost him up and it is better in the long run to improve the core group of villains of Black Panther. Basically if the writers do there job Achebe can be as big as Namor and with M'Baku,Klaw, and Killmonger all being excellent and basically household names to those who have watch the movie they have good reason to think that way.

    I can see both side of the argument,Now everytime I see Achebe I see the freaking Sock puppet and wonder WTF are BP fans thinking but M'Baku was also pretty garbage imo and they reworked him into something pretty amazing so I don't see why the same thing couldn't happen. In the past I might have favored Dr Doom or Namor for the sure fire star power but now I think I more favor stuff that help Black Panther overall health. I think the BP movie and cartoon have done amazing job at fixing the weakest area of Black Panther as a character. I actually think that leaning on Black Panther rogue gallery and reworking them in other media generally means that they get reworked in the comics. Which elevates the BP more in general. Look at this way if it is going to be so big why not do seperate Black Panther vs Namor film, So Black Panther 1,2,3 AND special cross over film. That is an extra film with Black Panther as a mini event I mean Civil War could easily been called Avengers movie. I believe it has been said Marvel is moving away from the long super connected narrative smaller shorter stuff so we will get more films like Civil War than stuff like Infinity War/Endgame.
    I think it's entirely possible to mix BP rogues with other villains though.

    Mephisto seems to be a popular choice (on this board at least) and he's not a BP rogue. He's had stories with Mephisto, but he's had no more with Doom and Namor at this point. But people still think it would be cool to see him. Mix Mephisto with Achebe (like they did in the books), and you get both a high level villain and a BP rogue. Win win.
    Last edited by XPac; 06-25-2019 at 05:51 AM.

  5. #5555
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  6. #5556
    Fantastic Member Vibranium Weave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    What I want is for Coogler to do what he did the first time, make it authentic, put as much effort as he did in the first one. Difference now would be to have more time to clean up the final product a little more. But that's minor stuff. I also want Namor and Doom to stay all the hell away from BP 2 unless they are coming to take a claw to the face and die. Otherwise this is for BP based villains to shine

    I agree with your statement here. I don't want Namor or Doom for BP2. Coogler should focus on just telling a good story like he did in BP1 and make the VFX & action scenes better lol. Save a big war between Wakanda & Atlantis for BP3.

    Achebe or Zanda could work for BP2 in the hands of Coogler and Feige.

  7. #5557
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post




    When I first read that story, and looked at the third panel.....I knew Kraven was insane.

    I mean, if someone dug their claws right below my neck....that last thing I'll be saying is "yes."

    I'd be screaming "medic!"

    In retrospect, the last panel could very well have been the start of the Panther/Iron Man rivalry (which I greatly enjoyed).

  8. #5558
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Morph View Post
    I'm sorry, but if its between Achebe and Namor? Namor all the way.

    I just don't feel like Achebe would be an appealing enough villain in a post-Thanos/Phase 4 MCU. I'm not thinking from the perspective of a die-hard BP fan, rather a cbm/blockbuster film fan and with global audiences in mind. You have the sequel to one of the biggest superhero films of all time, you want to up the ante in every category.

    With Namor, you get the promise of a bigger scale, spectacle, greater feats for T'Challa/Wakanda.etc. Plus, it's an easier sell even to people who are just learning about Namor for the first time. It's essentially BP vs. MCU Aquaman. Even a lot of folks who hated/disappointed with the first film will be back on board.

    Heck, you can still throw Achebe in there as the mastermind that incites the conflict between Wakanda and Atlantis.

    -
    :sigh:

    Where do I even begin?

    This is the kind of thinking that turns directors like Coogler away. This is the kind of thinking that makes dumb studio execs think bigger is always better and up for soulness, CGI-ladden unearned blockbusters instead of a well crafted film. This is the kind of thinking that FOX used in the handling of the X-Men films and Warner Brothers for the DC films.

    Ask yourself: is the BP film actually a big film? Sure, it globe-hops and contains big action set pieces, but it's not a big film. All of the conflict revolves around one country, one kingdom, and really one royal family. It's actually a smaller film in terms of scale, and it barely references the rest of the MCU. Did that stop the general audience from watching it? It outgrossed every single solo film!

    The Dark Knight is considered to be one of the best sequels. Is it a bigger film than Begins? No. Spider-Man 2 is considered to be one of the best superhero movies ever. Is it a bigger film than Spider-Man 1? No. But wait, Spider-Man 3 and The Dark Knight Rises are both bigger films than their predecessors! Are they better than them though? No.

    The Black Panther sequel is going to make (a lot of) money as long as it is at least as good as the first film. I don't know why this is even a concern. And frankly, the MCU is not about to start looking in other people's backyard and borrowing tricks from them. Just because WB put out Aquaman does not mean the MCU suddenly needs Namor. Aquaman grossed a billion dollars, and? Marvel have how many of those again? Including Black Panther, and they'll keep having more as long as they keep doing what they're doing: raising the bar higher and setting the standard.

    Nor does Marvel need to get the film's haters on board because they'll watch it anyway. You know the haters love to get their hateful opinions out fast so they'll be there opening weekend.

    The sequel needs to be a better film. That's it. It needs to keep what worked in the first, improve on what didn't, and push even further creatively. Coogler said he hoped Black Panther could show people what a blockbuster could be like, and he did. BP is a smart, well acted, well directed film full of representation and topical issues. Now I want to see if he can really topical and say something daring no one has before with the sequel. It does not need to be bigger. Namor fans don't even want this.

    Quote Originally Posted by FLEX HECTIC View Post
    We interrupt your regularly scheduled "Squatting" to bring you the following news...


    Flex Hectic reaches post #1000!


    To celebrate this milestone achievement I promised to feature my only son in a Black Panther tribute!


    This is Dineo which means "Gift" in my wife's native language of South Africa which was heavily featured in the Black Panther movie!


    Attachment 83795


    Attachment 83796


    Attachment 83797





    Please say hello to "Discount T'chadwick Boseman" who has dreams of one day portraying a young Azari (son of BP and Storm) similar to that depicted in The Next Avengers cartoon.


    I'm trying to tell dude that most of us true Black Panther fans aint pheeling the T'challa/Ororo Squatter's Row relationship but young Padawans be like that some times!


    Note: If you zoom in on the hands you can see both the Kimoyo beads as well as the "Grandfather's ring" shown in the movie!


    If you raise your children to be super heroes they may actually turn out to look the part in real life... Even if they still can't hang with their pops on the bench press or the squat rack but that vertical jump though!


    My wife does drink a lot of tea (HSH perhaps) and add that to the dominant African gene and the conspiracy plot thickens...


    Oh yeah... That video is part of our "super hero workout initiative" because the month of July is about to be SICK!


    EXCELSIOR!!!
    That's your son Flex? Good job bro!

  9. #5559
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLEX HECTIC View Post
    We interrupt your regularly scheduled "Squatting" to bring you the following news...


    Flex Hectic reaches post #1000!


    To celebrate this milestone achievement I promised to feature my only son in a Black Panther tribute!


    This is Dineo which means "Gift" in my wife's native language of South Africa which was heavily featured in the Black Panther movie!


    Attachment 83795


    Attachment 83796


    Attachment 83797





    Please say hello to "Discount T'chadwick Boseman" who has dreams of one day portraying a young Azari (son of BP and Storm) similar to that depicted in The Next Avengers cartoon.


    I'm trying to tell dude that most of us true Black Panther fans aint pheeling the T'challa/Ororo Squatter's Row relationship but young Padawans be like that some times!


    Note: If you zoom in on the hands you can see both the Kimoyo beads as well as the "Grandfather's ring" shown in the movie!


    If you raise your children to be super heroes they may actually turn out to look the part in real life... Even if they still can't hang with their pops on the bench press or the squat rack but that vertical jump though!


    My wife does drink a lot of tea (HSH perhaps) and add that to the dominant African gene and the conspiracy plot thickens...


    Oh yeah... That video is part of our "super hero workout initiative" because the month of July is about to be SICK!


    EXCELSIOR!!!
    hey hey he is handsome!!! me likey... flex? are you a personal trainer ??
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  10. #5560
    Incredible Member Ororo101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Wakanda doesn't care if you like Wakanda lol. The don't care if "we" non Wakandan black people give a shit about them. Just like I am pretty sure "insert real life African nation" gives a shit about the opinion of me, Florida black man, cares about them. They don't care if USA likes them, they don't care if China likes then, they don't care if Nigeria likes them, they don't care if Azania, Niganda, Atlantis, ect likes them.

    Wakanda is supposed to be weird. If that meteor lands in Britain, they are using it to conquer the known world. That meteor lands in Japan, they are going to use to spread their empire. If the meteor lands in Rawanda, they either use it to conquer or they get that shit stolen by "insert nation" and they use it to conquer. Any "real" nation uses the magic rock to conquer or be conquered for it.

    Wakanda is weird because they got the super meteor and just went, "cool, leave us alone, " and defended the hell out of their land and hid.

    The movie did make Killmonger somewhat sympathetic... but Wakanda isn't supposed to be perfect. Wakanda is a "utopia" for Wakandans. Whether that is right or not is up to the reader. comic T'challa helps. MCU T'challa was unsure what to do and ended up being convinced to help (it was huge he even considered it as a king, it wasn't even looked at as an option from what we saw of T'chaka).

    "Should we help anyone else' is central to every "super power" in the world. Wakanda shouldn't be exempt for that just because it feeds into some mythical "black/africans are different" narrative.
    You know what, I actually want to say thank you very much for this explanation. I can see that I was looking to Wakanda to represent some shining beacon of Black excellence and African ingenuity, being a nation that the entire continent can look toward for pushing the boundaries of societal advancement and cultural impact for all people of African descent. I realize now that that is just a very high bar to set for any country to uphold and in many ways like you said reflects the unfortunate reality that no nation, no matter how advanced technologically or culturally, can be perfect in ways desired to be moral and ethical. There is a sacrifice for great power and it is usually at the expense of many others. Maybe youíre right and Wakanda wouldnít be as ďadvancedĒ as they are if they had invested more into the general advancement and protection of all African based people. Maybe to succeed as much as they have they would have to be selfish and callous to the world around them. I may not respect it, but I definitely understand it and can sympathize with the burden of that choice. Wakanda is a nation with as many faults and social pitfalls as anywhere else in the world because such is the nature of humanity itself. I think thatís a good lesson learned.

    Where it really all stemmed from for me at least, as ironically a Florida Black man myself, was the thought of how different the world would/could be if people affected by the African slave trade actually had the tools, knowledge, and defenses to protect themselves when the imperialists showed up. I am African American on one side and Trinidadian on the other. A product of slavery on both sides, via the United States and the Caribbean. So really my entire life and the lives of my family are heavily if not totally influenced by those events 4-500 years ago. What could we have been if the burden of rising out of such despair wasnít laid upon us? How much more would I know about my ancestral roots if they werenít thought to be irrelevant and erased from historical record? A slave name, my surname and my only claim to what for me is a false history. How much advancement, culturally and socially would people of African descent have been able to accomplish if our entire continent was not raped of its resources, our people enslaved and turned against each other for protection and profit, and our homeland colonized and painted wide with brush strokes of imperialism?

    So yes, although we are actually talking about a fictional nation with the metaphorical power to have changed/altered all of that, it still is a question that sits heavy on my mind. The lives and futures of so many were dictated by those events and itís safe to say the entire world would be a much different place if they hadnít gone about as they did. So when you say that Wakanda as a Nation simply wouldnít care because we are not Wakandan and therefore not a priority to them, I actually accept it. It brings them down off of any pedestal they may have been on in my mind but in a way it makes them more real, interesting, and layered to me. Much more so than an African Utopia with no real life, humanity based faults of their own. They are nowhere near perfect, and they are not meant to be. Thank you for helping me understand that and therefore understand them better!

  11. #5561
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    Moses Magnum

  12. #5562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Morph View Post
    I'm sorry, but if its between Achebe and Namor? Namor all the way.

    I just don't feel like Achebe would be an appealing enough villain in a post-Thanos/Phase 4 MCU. I'm not thinking from the perspective of a die-hard BP fan, rather a cbm/blockbuster film fan and with global audiences in mind. You have the sequel to one of the biggest superhero films of all time, you want to up the ante in every category.

    With Namor, you get the promise of a bigger scale, spectacle, greater feats for T'Challa/Wakanda.etc. Plus, it's an easier sell even to people who are just learning about Namor for the first time. It's essentially BP vs. MCU Aquaman. Even a lot of folks who hated/disappointed with the first film will be back on board.

    Heck, you can still throw Achebe in there as the mastermind that incites the conflict between Wakanda and Atlantis.

    -
    IW and Endgame are blockbuster spectacles but they are not great film masterpieces. No one is going to list them with the likes of great films like Get Out, The Godfather or Citizen kane. Coogler made BP an oscar film without help, he only used Black Panther characters and it worked. He will do it again.

  13. #5563
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superheat View Post
    IW and Endgame are blockbuster spectacles but they are not great film masterpieces. No one is going to list them with the likes of great films like Get Out, The Godfather or Citizen kane. Coogler made BP an oscar film without help, he only used Black Panther characters and it worked. He will do it again.
    Thank you! And heck if people really want someone as powerful as Namor for the sequel, Coogler can just revamp Baron Macbre and turn him into a full on necromancer. That would make him a good foil for T’Challa if he gets his Kotd powers later on down the line.
    T'Challa
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  14. #5564
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Morph View Post
    I'm sorry, but if its between Achebe and Namor? Namor all the way.

    I just don't feel like Achebe would be an appealing enough villain in a post-Thanos/Phase 4 MCU. I'm not thinking from the perspective of a die-hard BP fan, rather a cbm/blockbuster film fan and with global audiences in mind. You have the sequel to one of the biggest superhero films of all time, you want to up the ante in every category.

    With Namor, you get the promise of a bigger scale, spectacle, greater feats for T'Challa/Wakanda.etc. Plus, it's an easier sell even to people who are just learning about Namor for the first time. It's essentially BP vs. MCU Aquaman. Even a lot of folks who hated/disappointed with the first film will be back on board.

    Heck, you can still throw Achebe in there as the mastermind that incites the conflict between Wakanda and Atlantis.

    -
    But why? Honestly, other then Thanos, Killmonger is the best villain produced out of the MCU films (I don't include Loki ONLY because he is now more of an anithero) he didn't have the big name attached to him,but honestly does that even matter?

    Only comics nerds Will know anything about him, the regular movie goer isn't going to know. Same goes for Doom, if not hindering for him because he has been in 3 failed FF movie's so his name isn't this OMG this is a big deal! But more so eh isn't that the ishtty villain in the FF movie's?

    BPs rogues and his mythos take priority over everything else. Everything outside hos world is secondary because nits HIS franchise. It's Black panther, not Black panther and coat-tail riders

  15. #5565
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Thank you! And heck if people really want someone as powerful as Namor for the sequel, Coogler can just revamp Baron Macbre and turn him into a full on necromancer. That would make him a good foil for TíChalla if he gets his Kotd powers later on down the line.
    Killmonger is the best antihero in MCU. Now Coogler will produced the best villain.

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