Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Rumble]

That would be epic. Them having a ceremonial wedding, where they can show off all the beautiful Wakandan colors and outfits? That would be boss, as well as sealing the deal and keeping certain characters from getting into the mythos

It's lowkey embarrassing that for certain characters the only mcu idea people have for them is to force them onto another franchise.

Like, don't those certain characters have their own ****? I think Nakia is the best thing to happen to those certain characters. Maybe it'll force the franchise of those certain characters to stop being lazy asses

[Rumble]

[Rumble]

[Cville]

Fun stuff. One last hoorah.

[Ezyo1000]

It's lowkey embarrassing that for certain characters the only mcu idea people have for them is to force them onto another franchise.

Like, don't those certain characters have their own ****? I think Nakia is the best thing to happen to those certain characters. Maybe it'll force the franchise of those certain characters to stop being lazy asses

If you think about it, it's actually quite interesting how many characters people wanted to see make the jump into BPs franchise once they saw he was making that BIG bank.. all under the guise that it will increase his stakes as if he needed them to take him to the next level.

[Rumble]

If you think about it, it's actually quite interesting how many characters people wanted to see make the jump into BPs franchise once they saw he was making that BIG bank.. all under the guise that it will increase his stakes as if he needed them to take him to the next level.

Yup. If the roles were reversed those same ppl wouldn't have given BP a glance. Fake friends, with their hands out

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Morrison only didn't shoot Creed (she was definitely going to) because she got pregnant. Otherwise she would have done the film.

Also you have to understand that Marvel Studios (like most studios doing big budget IP films) use second unit directors for their action scenes especially. They do it because most (if not all) of their directors have no experience shooting action scenes, especially big action scenes with many moving parts (which is why Marvel also has their own stunt team). But also it is to keep the action sequences largely looking the same as the other MCU films. The 2nd director is also there to imitate the director's style or achieve what the director wants to based on style (yes, most of the Russo bros action scenes are not shot by them).

So really, I don't think Morrison actually shot many of the action scenes in the film. My guess is, she shot the waterfall fights and maybe the casino fight. Maybe the forest fight too. It's no surprise those are the best ones in the film and the most distinct looking ones compared to other MCU films. She definitely didn't shoot the final battle (because it was reshot) and it's typical practice to get a 2nd unit director to direct scenes in another country where production isn't taking place. She obviously shot the rest of the film, and besides she's the one with the Oscar nomination (as much as I don't usually play establishment bias).

Like others have said, Coogler can't just do whatever he wants working with Marvel Studios. At the end of the day they have a proven formula and he worked within it, not outside it. Definitely he's gonna be allowed to do more of his thing, but he just won't be making his own film. Filmmaking is a team effort.

Granted I know Nolan is one director that doesn't use 2nd unit directors, but going by TDK and TDKR, he definitely could have used one lol.

I know that. However, imagine if Morrison did shoot Creed...and the movie/fight scenes turned out not to be as good? Its like saying Tom Brady should have sat the bench for Drew Bledsoe once he got healthy

(I'm not trying to disrespect Morrison as she did a GREAT job on BP and is an oscar nominated cinematograher. Just saying I was in awe of the fight scenes in Creed and some of the shots in the movie. BP while an amazing movie wasn't as visually impressive as Creed despite the bigger budget)

Sidenote: I also hope we got more palace intrigue in the sequel. I would like to see the home of a king of a futuristic society.


Back on topic...the control that Marvel has....is EXACTLY why Coogler wasn't nominated for Best Director. Thats whats a shame. Because loosing up the reigns a bit more makes for a better film. It undercuts all the great things he's doing when you input typical run of the mill Marvel stuff.

In fairness this is probably why some people have a problem with the movie as an oscar contender. It has aspirations far greater than what you expect from this movie then it all falls back to typical Marvel bits (only every now and then. thank goodness)

Black Belt Jones on Comicbookmovie described this much better than me. However, the point still stands that we are denied even more greatness if Coogler isn't given more freedom for the sequel.

Spielberg made Jaws at 27. Coogler is of that ilk. Give HIM TIME and he'll figure out the necessary components. Don't do a rush job to fill in the typical Marvel parts. It seems the "Marvel people" are responsible for the least interesting parts of Black Panther.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I don't think a "hero" acted this well (comicbook movie hero outside of Jackman in Logan) in years as good as Boseman's T'Challa. Especially this scene.

[MindofShadow]

In fairness this is probably why some people have a problem with the movie as an oscar contender. It has aspirations far greater than what you expect from this movie then it all falls back to typical Marvel bits (only every now and then. thank goodness)

I dont' 100% agree with this but I am a big MCU fan.

Coogler should have been judged by what his job was IMO. Which was to create the best Black Panther MCU!! film he could. He was given the materials and given the tools and they told him "build" and let him go.

I want the big cgi fest fights. I want to see him blow up cars, bounce off buildings, and tear a car to shreds. I want rhinos, spears thrown at aircraft, jumping over shileds for a wakanda slam. I want quips. Give it too me, I want it all.

But, I hopefully want the execution cleaned up in ALL the fight scenes, including the ones Coogler was more directly involved in. Nigeria scene was too damn dark. The cuts in the waterfall fights were in weird spots and not quite smooth enough. Mine fight has been discussed to death. And this isn't me picking on Black Panther, I could nitpick every MCU (and every other movie) too.

Black Belt Jones on Comicbookmovie described this much better than me. However, the point still stands that we are denied even more greatness if Coogler isn't given more freedom for the sequel.

Spielberg made Jaws at 27. Coogler is of that ilk. Give HIM TIME and he'll figure out the necessary components. Don't do a rush job to fill in the typical Marvel parts. It seems the "Marvel people" are responsible for the least interesting parts of Black Panther.

Whedon got more control in AoU and it amplified the worst aspects of him. Gunn got more control in GoG2 and i'd argue it amplified some of his worst aspects as well (also amplified his good though).

I also think you have to be careful blaming everything on Coogler. They went back and refilmed the last fight (I think) because something wasn't right. They watch this movies over and over and have test screenings over and over and then go back and fix stuff during reshoots. I'd be curious on what looked off and why they went back and changed it.

I think you could argue TDK and especially TDKR amplified some of the shitty aspects of Nolan too.

It can be a "be careful what you wish for."

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I dont' 100% agree with this but I am a big MCU fan.

Coogler should have been judged by what his job was IMO. Which was to create the best Black Panther MCU!! film he could. He was given the materials and given the tools and they told him "build" and let him go.

I want the big cgi fest fights. I want to see him blow up cars, bounce off buildings, and tear a car to shreds. I want rhinos, spears thrown at aircraft, jumping over shileds for a wakanda slam. I want quips. Give it too me, I want it all.

But, I hopefully want the execution cleaned up in ALL the fight scenes, including the ones Coogler was more directly involved in. Nigeria scene was too damn dark. The cuts in the waterfall fights were in weird spots and not quite smooth enough. Mine fight has been discussed to death. And this isn't me picking on Black Panther, I could nitpick every MCU (and every other movie) too.

Whedon got more control in AoU and it amplified the worst aspects of him. Gunn got more control in GoG2 and i'd argue it amplified some of his worst aspects as well (also amplified his good though).

I also think you have to be careful blaming everything on Coogler. They went back and refilmed the last fight (I think) because something wasn't right. They watch this movies over and over and have test screenings over and over and then go back and fix stuff during reshoots. I'd be curious on what looked off and why they went back and changed it.

I think you could argue TDK and especially TDKR amplified some of the shitty aspects of Nolan too.

It can be a "be careful what you wish for."

Fair points. It could backfire.



However, I think Coogler proved he could completely reinvent a formula with Creed (Rocky franchise). Keeping similar beats but making it feel completely fresh throughout.

I don't like Dudebros, but I do understand the love of Spider Verse. It really took chances and feels completely fresh. I love that movie as well.

Black Panther came pretty close to doing that. I think the sequel can be the same way Nolan did after doing Begins with TDK. (I'm one who think Begins is a better Batman film though. However, TDK he was truly in his bag as a director)

After the success of the first one I guess you could say why fix what isn't broke tho?

[MindofShadow]

Fun stuff. One last hoorah.

Imma be comic depressed once this ends.

Won't be many fun books left...

If you think about it, it's actually quite interesting how many characters people wanted to see make the jump into BPs franchise once they saw he was making that BIG bank.. all under the guise that it will increase his stakes as if he needed them to take him to the next level.

Yup. If the roles were reversed those same ppl wouldn't have given BP a glance. Fake friends, with their hands out

So tell me, what the hell is a fella to do?
For every million I make, another relative sues
Family fightin' and fussin' over who wants to invite me to supper
All of a sudden I got ninety-some cousins (Hey it's me!)
A half-brother and sister who never seen me
Or even bothered to call me until they saw me on TV
Now everybody's so happy and proud
I'm finally allowed to step foot in my girlfriend's house (Hey!)

[MindofShadow]

Fair points. It could backfire.



However, I think Coogler proved he could completely reinvent a formula with Creed (Rocky franchise). Keeping similar beats but making it feel completely fresh throughout.

I don't like Dudebros, but I do understand the love of Spider Verse. It really took chances and feels completely fresh. I love that movie as well.

Black Panther came pretty close to doing that. I think the sequel can be the same way Nolan did after doing Begins with TDK. (I'm one who think Begins is a better Batman film though. However, TDK he was truly in his bag as a director)

After the success of the first one I guess you could say why fix what isn't broke tho?

I think Begins is a better movie too for the record.

I'm in the "polish/refine, don't start over" camp personally. BP 100% nailed and exceeded expectations on the "hard" stuff, just need to polish up the "easy" stuff IMO.

[Blind Wedjat]

This might be because I'm also a big MCU fan as well as being a BP fan, but I don't personally get it when people express disappointment in the "typical run of the mill Marvel stuff." I'm not saying every movie has to be the exact same, but superhero movies really are a genre of their own. Meaning that there are things to 'expect' in terms of these movies. Marvel largely know this, and that's why their films are nothing like a Logan, Watchmen, TDK etc.

There's nothing wrong with those movies but to me, the reason why I have respect for Black Panther more than those films is because it's unashamed of it's genre and has all the things you expect from it, but it is deeper and more thought provoking that most of these films. The fact that so many thinkpieces were written on the film, giving different opinions on what the film is about/trying to say like it being a critique on Trump's administration, Obama's administration, the Civil Rights era, colonialism & anti-colonialism, and more WITHOUT giving a definitive typical answer to most of these discussions (i.e., "Racism is Bad" in BlacKkKlansman and Green Book) is in itself an ACHIEVEMENT in storytelling, writing, directing for the genre AND for film.

Movies like Watchmen, Logan and TDK exist (as quality as they are) because--especially for Logan--certain filmmakers believe there's something wrong with the genre as it is, feel ashamed of the things that make superhero fiction works what they are, decide to do away with all of those things and then feel as though their films are better than the rest just because of that. Marvel Studios will never work with a director who thinks their ideas or style is automatically better than the genre itself or better than their house style (hence the recent non-troversy with the female director who was in talks to do Black Widow). Clearly Coogler doesn't think that way since he was signed on and instead of completely rearranging the formula, he showed what it is capable of.

People have issues with BP's nomination because it doesn't feel like what to typically expect from a Best Picture nomination, but feel Logan and TDK deserved it more because they 'look' like and are directed like those types of films (hence TDK feeling like a crime drama, Logan feeling like a western, but BP feeling like a superhero movie). The funny and sad thing is, this is the exact same kind of art-house snobbery that kept TDK and other superhero movies away from major nominations (aside from technical awards), yet it's being perpetuated by the fans of said snubbed films. You can't have it both ways, making films that ass kiss the critics and complain when the elitists look down on the genre, and then complain when one of your own film breaks the barrier.

BP2 just needs to be a polished up sequel and an even better film. It's not as if he showed he was bad at writing characters, worldbuilding, tackling tough themes, directing actors, basic storytelling and all that. All the weaker stuff from the first film is really just from a guy like him doing this for the first time (and probably not given the best teams/enough time).

[Blind Wedjat]

https://ew.com/oscars/2019/02/23/bla...-popular-film/

I recommend everyone watch this. Pretty much why I believe BP does deserve the nomination (and over some other films)

[Ezyo1000]

This might be because I'm also a big MCU fan as well as being a BP fan, but I don't personally get it when people express disappointment in the "typical run of the mill Marvel stuff." I'm not saying every movie has to be the exact same, but superhero movies really are a genre of their own. Meaning that there are things to 'expect' in terms of these movies. Marvel largely know this, and that's why their films are nothing like a Logan, Watchmen, TDK etc.

There's nothing wrong with those movies but to me, the reason why I have respect for Black Panther more than those films is because it's unashamed of it's genre and has all the things you expect from it, but it is deeper and more thought provoking that most of these films. The fact that so many thinkpieces were written on the film, giving different opinions on what the film is about/trying to say like it being a critique on Trump's administration, Obama's administration, the Civil Rights era, colonialism & anti-colonialism, and more WITHOUT giving a definitive typical answer to most of these discussions (i.e., "Racism is Bad" in BlacKkKlansman and Green Book) is in itself an ACHIEVEMENT in storytelling, writing, directing for the genre AND for film.

Movies like Watchmen, Logan and TDK exist (as quality as they are) because--especially for Logan--certain filmmakers believe there's something wrong with the genre as it is, feel ashamed of the things that make superhero fiction works what they are, decide to do away with all of those things and then feel as though their films are better than the rest just because of that. Marvel Studios will never work with a director who thinks their ideas or style is automatically better than the genre itself or better than their house style (hence the recent non-troversy with the female director who was in talks to do Black Widow). Clearly Coogler doesn't think that way since he was signed on and instead of completely rearranging the formula, he showed what it is capable of.

People have issues with BP's nomination because it doesn't feel like what to typically expect from a Best Picture nomination, but feel Logan and TDK deserved it more because they 'look' like and are directed like those types of films (hence TDK feeling like a crime drama, Logan feeling like a western, but BP feeling like a superhero movie). The funny and sad thing is, this is the exact same kind of art-house snobbery that kept TDK and other superhero movies away from major nominations (aside from technical awards), yet it's being perpetuated by the fans of said snubbed films. You can't have it both ways, making films that ass kiss the critics and complain when the elitists look down on the genre, and then complain when one of your own film breaks the barrier.

BP2 just needs to be a polished up sequel and an even better film. It's not as if he showed he was bad at writing characters, worldbuilding, tackling tough themes, directing actors, basic storytelling and all that. All the weaker stuff from the first film is really just from a guy like him doing this for the first time (and probably not given the best teams/enough time).

Thing is with the bolded, the reason people are acting like that is because they don't consider BP to be one of "Their films". What I mean by that is they wanted what they are used to seeing to win (Batman, Logan etc.) And not black panther, hence when the same argument you see coming up is that those should of been nominated, just like how these people will say spiderverse should of been nominated (Which funny enough, if it was and BP wasn't, they would say the same thing but in reverse) o top of the mountain of excuses they try to come up with. In which case my response will always be


As far as the second part. Post production time needed to be increased and less CGI on the habit, are what needs to be cleaned up for the sequel