Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[terrancejameson]

Dude on a really serious note, this is the Black Panther Appreciation Thread and not some forum for you to attempt yousplaining to long time contributors to this thread who engage here ostensibly to discuss, debate and wherever possible, celebrate, appreciate and debate all things positively BP mythos affiliated.

Ezyo was 100% correct in his observations as regards your penchant for introducing talking points to this thread that have absolutely nothing to do with the core aim of this thread which despite numerous attempts at derailment, remains the sole forum wherein core BP enthusiasts engage in meaningful discourse.

You pick and choose aspects of posts most of us make in here and then present your misinterpretation of what posters are actually saying, before remixing and subsequently weaponising said posts for disingenuous deployment that pushes the wholly false narrative of a gender bias that has never been part of the BP mythos let alone, the general level if discussion in any incarnation of BP Appreciation Threads dating back to the very first thread created pre-CBR's reboot.

I come here to kick it with my peers in this thread about BP related matters in general and the BP mythos in particular and really have no interest in talking about matters that remain wholly irrelevant to either one of those talking points but I do understand why introducing topics of discussion that focus on anything but core BP appreciation, would be attractive to some Coates BP devotees especially as Coates himself, has singlehandedly done more than any other writer, to repurpose the BP mythos to fit his own "woke" agenda that remains anything but.

I speak very plainly both on and offline with zero ambiguity embodied within my statements so it's unwise to ascribe any other meaning to what I'm saying other than what I've clearly stated herein.

I so enjoy your POV, but I can't help but notice you again are ignoring that I connected everything I've said with qualities that I associate with Movie T'Challa which you seem to have a vendetta against. I absolutely do pick and choose aspects of posts made here that give a different color to the T'Challa that speaks most to me. Don't sit and pretend I'm the only one that does it. You yourself are guilty of the very same behavior. It's the nature of the fandom to point out things that we like and dislike about the portrayal of our favorite characters. The movie is the most positive portrayal of Black Panther and his kingdom that I can think of. It's his most well known incarnation.

It's ironic that my attempts at "mesplaining" are unwelcome while yours is on full display. Everybody in here does their own version of it. It's the only way to get our points across and allow our true selves to shine through. You so desperately want to believe that I'm judging you or other long time posters because I question the language used. How is that any different than what you've done with me tho? Not only that, but it appears you're now putting words in my mouth. When have said anything that "pushes the wholly false narrative of gender bias that has never been part of the BP mythos?" Quote me please. Show me where I've done this. I've NEVER addressed it. Never, not even once. I've read all of Priest's run, not just the issues that include Storm. I know enough to say that even he put her on a pedestal giving her a power boost and acting as a catalyst to transform T'Challa's thinking and shape him into a better man. I can't in good faith label any of his work problematic and I never have. I also have all of Hudlin's run under my bed in a bin. I know enough to say that he also put her on a pedestal in many ways and used her as a catalyst to transform T'Challa's thinking and shape him into a better man for it. I also know he cleverly used catchphrases and throwaway references to Hip Hop culture with BET, Tourè and Oprah in his run. How are my references to mainstream urban/hiphop culture an attempt at derailing this thread. Are you serious?

I could certainly level accusations of gender bias against Hudlin's portrayal of them as a couple. I don't speak about any of it because it doesn't interest me. I could totally harp on the fact that BP got pissy because Storm stepped in and laid the smackdown on Doom for touching her husband. I could even make a case about how he turned Storm into a cheerleader for Hercules if that was my real intent. It doesn't interest me because all the good he's done for her character far outweighs the few hiccups he had with her. He took the time to build them both up and I'll always appreciate him for that. By and large he's shown himself to ultimately love and respect her and all the other female characters he used so there's no need for me to even go down that road. I didn't feel the need to try it here or over at HEF where I've been a member for years and still lurk. I know enough to remember spirited debates I've had with Umbra, Excelsior, Smoov-E and yourself. If you wanna do this, we can, just know that I've already done this.

I can appreciate that you come here to bounce ideas around with like minded individuals. That's your right. Just because I personally disagree with some of your interpretations doesn't mean I view you as an adversary. You are not my enemy. And just because I raise issue with some of your verbiage doesn't mean I'm labeling you as a monster of a man. I don't take your fake woke comments to heart because I can understand your feelings on the matter. Your reasoning isn't hard to understand and it isnt hard for me to articulate similar sentiments. But as long as I have my own senses I'll voice my own opinions. I don't expect any less from you. I actually look forward to it.

What I don't and won't agree with is this idea that misinterpret post and weaponize words to fit my own agenda. If you truly got that impression then I apologize. Just know that you're looking in a mirror. I'm also no more guilty of derailing than you or Flex Hectic. And I've never assigned an other meaning to your words other than state them as you have. Everything I've said in here over the last few weeks have been directly linked to the current portrayal of T'Challa both in his comic and his MCU counterpart. Where you get off suggesting that I've only made attempts to derail the thread is completely beyond me and I remain "non-plussed."

[terrancejameson]

Narobia.

Live podcast.

Topic: Should Wakanda Be Cancelled.

1-800-ZANDARULES

Zanda: "Caller you're on..."

Agazunga: "This is Agazunga from the greater Congo area and I wanted to know why Wakanda has not gotten involved with the civil wars raging here every other week."

Zanda: "Me too... Them xenophobic selfish people is all about themselves and they vibranium. They don't care about you and me or the common man. Next caller you're on..."

Adisa: "I'm from Nigeria and rumor has it that some of their secret service War Dogs killed some of our men in a late night ambush as they was coming home from work with groceries."

Zanda: "I can neither confirm nor deny this but my sources say that it all started over his 'girlfriend' Nakia dating one of those soldiers and Prince T'cholley got all jealous and went on a tirade something about his daddy died and whatnot... You know how he do... Next caller..."

Paul Rusesabagina: "This is Paul from Hotel Rwanda... 'BEEP' Wakanda and everything they stand for as they sat aside and let all types of people suffer while they lived in comfort."

Zanda: "Hey Paul, I just want you to know that the people of Narobia stand with you and other Africans in need all over the motherland."

Paul Rusesabagina: "Hey speaking of that your donations check bounced so if you could resend..."

(click)

Zanda: "Next caller..."

Bill: "Hi, I'm African American..."

Zanda: "Greetings from across the pond my Pan African brotha."

Bill: "Is it true that Wakanda and some Avengers tried to stop Thanos by themselves instead of reaching out to other African armies and possibly some Navy Seal involvement... I mean I get that they are 'unconquerable' and all but to risk half the universe' living beings just doesn't make sense to me."

Zanda: "Aint nothing but two thangs in Wakanda... Vibranium and big egos. T'cholley could have called me I got some tough soldiers over here in Narobia but NAW they wanted to hog all the glory for themselves in case they won. They could have involved Latveria, Atlantis, Russia, China and a whole bunch of other African nations just around the corner but that's how they do to keep their precious secrets. I had close friends turn to ash right in front of me and did not have a clue as to why. Next caller..."

Ororo: "This is Storm speaking... I represent Kenya and I would like to point out that Wakanda has sent my people a whole lot of aid and support so I don't get all the hate you throw at them."

Zanda: "Listeners this is Miss Ororo Munroe of the X-men and on the low she is doing the dayum thang with King T'challa so no wonder he gives her country aid and probably quietly funds the X-men for some sidepiece quid co pro action but I aint said nothing but a word."

Ororo: "LOOK... He is a great friend and ally in the super hero community!"

Zanda: "The WHITE super hero community with your blue eyed self and that hair aint real we see through all that Maybelline... You don't even rep Africa much anyway so Cancel Culture about to say Bye Felicia!"

Ororo: "You are about to experience some bad weather you keep running your mouth like that."

Zanda: "Listeners she just mad because I expelled all mutants out of my country... Aint my fault you're background eye candy in every Xavier School of Gifted Students photo-op. I just issued a tornado warning throughout my country so WHATEVAH bring it weather witch!"

Ororo: "I am a highly respected member of..."

(click)

Zanda: "Anywho... Speaking of T'cholley we had a date the other night and NEGRO with the fake accent tried to press me for information like I'm one them brainwashed Dora's he has hanging around steppin' and fetching' and whatnot. People it's time that we officially CANCELLED Wakanda as a staff, record label and a crew... Hit Em Up! Long live Killmonger!"

This had me hollering! I could totally get behind this.

[terrancejameson]

And then people come in here and start talking about imagined "inner bias" when the only "bias" on display, is that which they brought along with them into the thread themselves.

Much like the I'll informed bias Coates brought along with him on his ongoing derailment of the BP mythos that stood sacrosanct and unique long before he came along.

Yeah, I spoke about inner bias. That was in reference to his billion dollar movie as well. Did I bring YOUR inner bias into the thread along with me, too? How does that explain me being in total agreement with Ezyo1000 and Marvell2100 on that front? I asked questions to expose inner biases in whatever thread I choose to glean information from. Ezyo1000 and Marvell2100 exposed that we disagree on many things, but we have a shared bias or preference for T'Chadwick's portrayal of the legendary king. Is that such a bad thing? Should they take offense that some of our biases run in the same direction? Please understand that my words never meant to put you in a box. Please do so quickly so you can come out of whatever feelings you imagined. I assure you, you've missed the mark, yet again.

[Ezyo1000]

I so enjoy your POV, but I can't help but notice you again are ignoring that I connected everything I've said with qualities that I associate with Movie T'Challa which you seem to have a vendetta against. I absolutely do pick and choose aspects of posts made here that give a different color to the T'Challa that speaks most to me. Don't sit and pretend I'm the only one that does it. You yourself are guilty of the very same behavior. It's the nature of the fandom to point out things that we like and dislike about the portrayal of our favorite characters. The movie is the most positive portrayal of Black Panther and his kingdom that I can think of. It's his most well known incarnation.

It's ironic that my attempts at "mesplaining" are unwelcome while yours is on full display. Everybody in here does their own version of it. It's the only way to get our points across and allow our true selves to shine through. You so desperately want to believe that I'm judging you or other long time posters because I question the language used. How is that any different than what you've done with me tho? Not only that, but it appears you're now putting words in my mouth. When have said anything that "pushes the wholly false narrative of gender bias that has never been part of the BP mythos?" Quote me please. Show me where I've done this. I've NEVER addressed it. Never, not even once. I've read all of Priest's run, not just the issues that include Storm. I know enough to say that even he put her on a pedestal giving her a power boost and acting as a catalyst to transform T'Challa's thinking and shape him into a better man. I can't in good faith label any of his work problematic and I never have. I also have all of Hudlin's run under my bed in a bin. I know enough to say that he also put her on a pedestal in many ways and used her as a catalyst to transform T'Challa's thinking and shape him into a better man for it. I also know he cleverly used catchphrases and throwaway references to Hip Hop culture with BET, Tourè and Oprah in his run. How are my references to mainstream urban/hiphop culture an attempt at derailing this thread. Are you serious?

I could certainly level accusations of gender bias against Hudlin's portrayal of them as a couple. I don't speak about any of it because it doesn't interest me. I could totally harp on the fact that BP got pissy because Storm stepped in and laid the smackdown on Doom for touching her husband. I could even make a case about how he turned Storm into a cheerleader for Hercules if that was my real intent. It doesn't interest me because all the good he's done for her character far outweighs the few hiccups he had with her. He took the time to build them both up and I'll always appreciate him for that. By and large he's shown himself to ultimately love and respect her and all the other female characters he used so there's no need for me to even go down that road. I didn't feel the need to try it here or over at HEF where I've been a member for years and still lurk. I know enough to remember spirited debates I've had with Umbra, Excelsior, Smoov-E and yourself. If you wanna do this, we can, just know that I've already done this.

I can appreciate that you come here to bounce ideas around with like minded individuals. That's your right. Just because I personally disagree with some of your interpretations doesn't mean I view you as an adversary. You are not my enemy. And just because I raise issue with some of your verbiage doesn't mean I'm labeling you as a monster of a man. I don't take your fake woke comments to heart because I can understand your feelings on the matter. Your reasoning isn't hard to understand and it isnt hard for me to articulate similar sentiments. But as long as I have my own senses I'll voice my own opinions. I don't expect any less from you. I actually look forward to it.

What I don't and won't agree with is this idea that misinterpret post and weaponize words to fit my own agenda. If you truly got that impression then I apologize. Just know that you're looking in a mirror. I'm also no more guilty of derailing than you or Flex Hectic. And I've never assigned an other meaning to your words other than state them as you have. Everything I've said in here over the last few weeks have been directly linked to the current portrayal of T'Challa both in his comic and his MCU counterpart. Where you get off suggesting that I've only made attempts to derail the thread is completely beyond me and I remain "non-plussed."

I'll say this. The thing with Hudlin wasn't gender bias with Doom or Hercules. With Doom that was purely T'Challa and him in a pissing contest and his ego got i. The way, if you reread that, he doesn't do anything that outd her down. He's upset and says he will find his own way out of dooms place, he doesn't insult her or say anything about her gender the next scene they make up abd joke about it. The Hercules thing, she wasbt a cheerleader because she was already fighting fake Thor. There wasn't anything insulting that Hudlin did with her, its a simple difference in power but Hudlin handled it fine, definitely not a hiccup

[Marvell2100]

Yeah, I spoke about inner bias. That was in reference to his billion dollar movie as well. Did I bring YOUR inner bias into the thread along with me, too? How does that explain me being in total agreement with Ezyo1000 and Marvell2100 on that front? I asked questions to expose inner biases in whatever thread I choose to glean information from. Ezyo1000 and Marvell2100 exposed that we disagree on many things, but we have a shared bias or preference for T'Chadwick's portrayal of the legendary king. Is that such a bad thing? Should they take offense that some of our biases run in the same direction? Please understand that my words never meant to put you in a box. Please do so quickly so you can come out of whatever feelings you imagined. I assure you, you've missed the mark, yet again.

For sure we agree and disagree on many things regarding Coates and Black Panther.

But it's all good.

[XPac]

World's apart is not a BP writer bringing it back. It's an x writer using it to throw shade on Wakanda. And how Coates did it was stupid. Straight up. He forced drama abd issues, rerconned in dysfunction abd then had everyone act ooc to "break the wheel"

The MCU has no issues portraying the DM in a manner that works and could of easily been applied to the MU. Coates version essentially wiped out the order. Now it's just Okoye, the rest of the order has drifting off to Limbo land, and for what? So Coates can pay himself on the back saying that he "fixed" it? And even if T'Challa is superhuman having body guards like the DM I a helpful asset, of course he doesn't need them. Hell he doesn't need to do anything when he had DM, HZ, and the nost advanced tech on earth at his disposal. But it's called Black Panther. Not World of Wakanda

If you don't want shade thrown at you for having wives in training in your mythos, don't put wives in training in your mythos in the first place. Because the honest truth is that even in Priests run people were subtly throwing shade at the idea... and Priest came up with it. I don't think the idea was ever that this was supposed to be a good thing, so it's fair game for an writer, even a non-BP writer to bring it up. But now the mythos doesn't have to worry about anyone ever brining it up again, because the Doras have been removed from the system which put them in that position. Which is kind of the point.

And the Doras aren't wiped out... they simply don't act as body guards for a king that doesn't need body guards. They still defend Wakanda and the Wakandan people, like we're seeing in War of Realms. They wisely are being used to protect people that need them a heck of a lot more than BP does quite honestly.

[XPac]

All the DM have done to "serve the people" is kill the leader of the Jabari (without the benefit of a trial, I might add), take over his lands, and come running to the "one man" they so decried when they actually had issues defending said lands. They've gone from being analogs of the Dahomey Amazons to the Wakanan equivalent of a '60s commune.

In Coates first arc they helped the women in the rape camps, and helped the women in the north when T'Challa's forces were too distracted. They also helped T'Challa against Klaw, and defended Wakanda in War of Realms against the Angels. And yeah, they did take over the Jabari land... which probably was doing T'Challa and Wakanda a favor. They certainly didn't do it through proper due process... they operated outside the law. Which frankly I think was a part of their appeal to the people. The law couldn't touch a lot of these people... but the Doras could. Not necessarily saying it's right... but they got results.

[XPac]

I'll say this. The thing with Hudlin wasn't gender bias with Doom or Hercules. With Doom that was purely T'Challa and him in a pissing contest and his ego got i. The way, if you reread that, he doesn't do anything that outd her down. He's upset and says he will find his own way out of dooms place, he doesn't insult her or say anything about her gender the next scene they make up abd joke about it. The Hercules thing, she wasbt a cheerleader because she was already fighting fake Thor. There wasn't anything insulting that Hudlin did with her, its a simple difference in power but Hudlin handled it fine, definitely not a hiccup

The Hercules thing was fine.

But I DO think you can credibly find fault in how T'Challa and Storm were handled in the Doom fight. Storm getting yelled that there was pretty stupid given the circumstances.

[Mr MajestiK]

If you don't want shade thrown at you for having wives in training in your mythos, don't put wives in training in your mythos in the first place. Because the honest truth is that even in Priests run people were subtly throwing shade at the idea... and Priest came up with it. I don't think the idea was ever that this was supposed to be a good thing, so it's fair game for an writer, even a non-BP writer to bring it up. But now the mythos doesn't have to worry about anyone ever brining it up again, because the Doras have been removed from the system which put them in that position. Which is kind of the point.

And the Doras aren't wiped out... they simply don't act as body guards for a king that doesn't need body guards. They still defend Wakanda and the Wakandan people, like we're seeing in War of Realms. They wisely are being used to protect people that need them a heck of a lot more than BP does quite honestly.

On the contrary.

Shade thrown against someone else's culture says a lot more about the imperialistic mindstate that feels that everything outside of its aegis, is primitive and uncivilised.

I can't think of anything more arrogant than that but hey, we live in a world where indigenous peoples are currently being murdered to death in the Amazon by a Brazilian state that feels their culture is superior to that of the original people who maintained the land in ecologically balanced equilibrium.

[Mr MajestiK]

I'll say this. The thing with Hudlin wasn't gender bias with Doom or Hercules. With Doom that was purely T'Challa and him in a pissing contest and his ego got i. The way, if you reread that, he doesn't do anything that outd her down. He's upset and says he will find his own way out of dooms place, he doesn't insult her or say anything about her gender the next scene they make up abd joke about it. The Hercules thing, she wasbt a cheerleader because she was already fighting fake Thor. There wasn't anything insulting that Hudlin did with her, its a simple difference in power but Hudlin handled it fine, definitely not a hiccup

And therein lies the actual elephant in the room.

Storm and all things X-related that have ever been the bane of the BP mythos post-Hudlin.

Practically all shade that's been thrown at the BP mythos as regards the Dora Milaje, has been initiated by X-writers and folks who gravitate towards that arm of the MU.

Storm's time as a perennial detailer if the BP mythos needs to be ended because at the end of the day, T'Challa's forward momentum within his solo has been stunted as regards positive character development and thematic growth just off of Coates usage of the aforementioned solo to push his own agenda.

[FLEX HECTIC]

I don't have wives in training but I do have sidepieces in training...

[FLEX HECTIC]

Newsflash: Wakanda Opens First Popeyes Chicken Franchise





Wakanda.

The business district.

A Disneyland theme park size line forms outside and around the corner reaching all the way to the base of the Jabari tribe mountain a couple of miles away.

The newly established franchise Popeyes Chicken with it's controversial chicken sandwich was a shining beacon in the center of the city.

King T'challa arrives via Royal Talon fighter and is escorted by General Okoye after they park in the already crowded parking lot.

As King T'challa is ushered toward the front of the line...

Random Wakandan Citizen: "Hey man, I don't care if you are the king of Wakanda I been camping out for days waiting for this world famous chicken sandwich!"

Another Random Wakandan Citizen: "Yeah fool check yo royal @$$ to the back of the line!"

Yet Another Random Wakandan Citizen: "Don't make me turn on the waterfall and Killmonger you again!"

General Okoye: "This is the king of Wakanda and deserving of respect..."

Big Barrel Back Jabari Tribesman: "Hey Grace Jones looking chick you and your mans and them need to step to the rear and wait your turn like everybody else."

Real Rough Looking Vibranium Dust Covered Miner Tribesman: "Wakanda Forever except when it's chicken sandwich time!"

Just then the owner of the restaurant makes a startling announcement...

The Reverend Achebe: "Attention my good citizens... We are currently sold out of the chicken sandwiches so have a nice day!"

Suddenly out of no where someone throws a chair and a full blown riot breaks out with folks spilling all over Wakanda in massive brawls.

General Okoye: "What in the WorldStarHipHop is going on people!!!"

Black Panther activates his necklace springing his black suit to life protecting him from a Goonslam Gary bottle OOPS upside his head.

The Reverend Achebe smiles as he chomps down on the last chicken sandwich eyeing King T'challa with a devilish grin.

King T'challa: "Okoye call in reinforcements it's about to get really REAL in Wakanda... Shuri... SHURI..."

Princess Shuri: "Wait I'm busy right now."

King T'challa: "It's an emergency what could you possibly be doing right now!"

Back in the Wakanda Design Group Lab...

Princess Shuri: "I'm eating a chicken sandwich right now let me get back to you... MMMM this chicken GOOD!!!"

Back in the parking lot of Popeyes M'baku picks up The Reverend Achebe and snatches the last chicken sandwich from his grip...

Lord M'baku: "Witness the might of this chicken sandwich FIRSTHAND!!!"


Newsflash: Popeye's Chicken Sandwich is Wakanda's Kryptonite!


I tried that chicken sandwich today and except for a sudden urge to go dark side of the force and Darth Maul everybody in the immediate vicinity I don't see the big deal!


Carry on...

[Ezyo1000]

If you don't want shade thrown at you for having wives in training in your mythos, don't put wives in training in your mythos in the first place. Because the honest truth is that even in Priests run people were subtly throwing shade at the idea... and Priest came up with it. I don't think the idea was ever that this was supposed to be a good thing, so it's fair game for an writer, even a non-BP writer to bring it up. But now the mythos doesn't have to worry about anyone ever brining it up again, because the Doras have been removed from the system which put them in that position. Which is kind of the point.

And the Doras aren't wiped out... they simply don't act as body guards for a king that doesn't need body guards. They still defend Wakanda and the Wakandan people, like we're seeing in War of Realms. They wisely are being used to protect people that need them a heck of a lot more than BP does quite honestly.

Right there protecting the people now... So again they are now in limbo because this is the Black panther title, not World of Wakanda. And yes the wives I. Training wasn't Good. But that was the point of it and it was handled In A smart way. Coates butchered it and in it's current iteration we won't be seeing the DM much at all I guarantee it.

[BitParallel]

Hello Dear Friends,

I am planning to check out Blank Panther, is the current run new reader friendly

[Cville]

Hello Dear Friends,

I am planning to check out Blank Panther, is the current run new reader friendly

Simple answer is no. You'd have to have read Hickmans New Avengers through Secret Wars to understand the lead in. And at least the first trade of either Priests or Hudlins runs to get a grasp of the character.

Not having enough starter info was a complaint from customers at my LCS.