Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[LastManStanding]

1. Is that girl a reincarnation of Bast? How much time has passed since Killmonger killed Bast?

2. Counter points for nitpicks of The Battle of Wakanda tactics and strategies as put forward by the Youtuber:

-Guns are primitive so having a spear that can fire laser blasts capable of destroying tanks is a plus. The spears along with energy shields will give Wakandans the option of gaining ground on enemy positions thereby nullifying an enemy’s long range battle strategy.

-Never trust intel readily provided by your enemy because deception is an aspect war. Black Widow and Cap let T’Challa down by not telling him who was missing from the Black Order. That missing intel/misdirection undermined his defense strategy.

-Formation of the Wakanda line was tactically sound because the center was held by BP and Cap, the flanks by the Hulk Buster and Bucky. Keeping the line was hampered by Banner not being a soldier and his misuse of a Hulk substitute hardware for the sake of the story.

-The queen protects the king while the pawns, rooks, bishops and knights do the fighting and Scarlet Witch was the queen piece but she couldn’t hold her nerve. She abandoned her strategic position and joined the battle which was not her job. T’Challa could have climbed those death wheels and impaired them with a force push.

-Airforce should have been used in two ways. War Machine should have gone directly for the alien ships while the Wakanda airforce attacked the aliens from behind.

[MindofShadow]

How many Wakandan warriors were present when they fought Thanos' army? If i recall correctly T'Challa had the Dora Milaje, the Border Tribe, and the Jabari; but do we know how many actually warriors were present? There didn't look to be too many.

Doras, Kings Guard, "what is left of the Border Tribe," and Jabari

He really didn't get much warning that he was going to be invaded by a ridiculous number of rabid huge dogs.

All he was told is that he had to protect Vision to get the stone out. Probably from a few Thanos goons. That is really easy... they had an nearly impenetrable forcefield, multiple superheroes + his boydguards.

Then all of a sudden, a giant ass ship lands outside of Wakanda and a ridiculous force comes out of it that has no problems suicide itself.

They were at a ridiculous information disadvantage from the get go.

1. Is that girl a reincarnation of Bast? How much time has passed since Killmonger killed Bast?

It is Killmonger's daugther that seems possessed by Bast

2. Counter points for nitpicks of The Battle of Wakanda tactics and strategies as put forward by the Youtuber:

-Guns are primitive so having a spear that can fire laser blasts capable of destroying tanks is a plus. The spears along with energy shields will give Wakandans the option of gaining ground on enemy positions thereby nullifying an enemy’s long range battle strategy.

-Never trust intel readily provided by your enemy because deception is an aspect war. Black Widow and Cap let T’Challa down by not telling him who was missing from the Black Order. That missing intel/misdirection undermined his defense strategy.

-Formation of the Wakanda line was tactically sound because the center was held by BP and Cap, the flanks by the Hulk Buster and Bucky. Keeping the line was hampered by Banner not being a soldier and his misuse of a Hulk substitute hardware for the sake of the story.

-The queen protects the king while the pawns, rooks, bishops and knights do the fighting and Scarlet Witch was the queen piece but she couldn’t hold her nerve. She abandoned her strategic position and joined the battle which was not her job. T’Challa could have climbed those death wheels and impaired them with a force push.

-Airforce should have been used in two ways. War Machine should have gone directly for the alien ships while the Wakanda airforce attacked the aliens from behind.

Nice counterpoints there.

[XPac]

1. Is that girl a reincarnation of Bast? How much time has passed since Killmonger killed Bast?

2. Counter points for nitpicks of The Battle of Wakanda tactics and strategies as put forward by the Youtuber:

-Guns are primitive so having a spear that can fire laser blasts capable of destroying tanks is a plus. The spears along with energy shields will give Wakandans the option of gaining ground on enemy positions thereby nullifying an enemy’s long range battle strategy.

-Never trust intel readily provided by your enemy because deception is an aspect war. Black Widow and Cap let T’Challa down by not telling him who was missing from the Black Order. That missing intel/misdirection undermined his defense strategy.

-Formation of the Wakanda line was tactically sound because the center was held by BP and Cap, the flanks by the Hulk Buster and Bucky. Keeping the line was hampered by Banner not being a soldier and his misuse of a Hulk substitute hardware for the sake of the story.

-The queen protects the king while the pawns, rooks, bishops and knights do the fighting and Scarlet Witch was the queen piece but she couldn’t hold her nerve. She abandoned her strategic position and joined the battle which was not her job. T’Challa could have climbed those death wheels and impaired them with a force push.

-Airforce should have been used in two ways. War Machine should have gone directly for the alien ships while the Wakanda airforce attacked the aliens from behind.

I actually think War Machine attacking the eneny from the air while they were going through he opening in the shield was smart. Within the force field, the Avengers had the advantage of flight. So until the generals actually got inside who actually had some ranged attack, he could freely attack the incoming invaders at a bottle neck without taking damage himself. Course, the generals tossing their weapons at him ended that.

[XPac]

How many Wakandan warriors were present when they fought Thanos' army? If i recall correctly T'Challa had the Dora Milaje, the Border Tribe, and the Jabari; but do we know how many actually warriors were present? There didn't look to be too many.

We can assume a large percentage of the military was doing other things. SOme probably were working at evacuating civilians. Some probably were positioned within the golden city itself in the event their first line failed, in addition to other areas in Wakanda. What we saw was purely the ground fighters. Any air force or navy they had, we wouldn't have seen in this particular battle.

And we also have to wonder if the Wakandan army is even THAT big. It's a small country that hasn't been invaded before. I imagine the army is proportionately large for it's size as it's a warrior nation ... but likely still small in comparrison to obviously much larger nations like the US or China.

[DigiCom]

IS MCU Wakanda a warrior nation? If you think about it, only three of the tribes are militaristic:

1. The Border Tribe, because, well, it's their JOB.
2. The Dora Milaje, same reason (although different job).
3. The Jabari, who are outsiders.

There's really no reason for members of the Mining, River, or Merchant tribes to have warriors (other than a tribal champion, perhaps). And of the three that do, one is a ceremonial force (the DM), one was understrength after a recent rebellion, and the third eschew technology for the most part. If you think about it from that perspective, they did pretty well to field the force they had.

[Jabare]

are the Dora's a tribe? I feel like they aren't

[Mike_Murdock]

How many Wakandan warriors were present when they fought Thanos' army? If i recall correctly T'Challa had the Dora Milaje, the Border Tribe, and the Jabari; but do we know how many actually warriors were present? There didn't look to be too many.

Looking at the movie, I'd say a couple hundred, but I wasn't counting.

IIRC, the dialogue was that there was the King's Guard, the Dora Milaje, the Border Tribe, and the Jabari Tribe. I was curious what the King's Guard was and why there weren't any War Dogs (I guess they're more spies than soldiers, though).

[XPac]

Looking at the movie, I'd say a couple hundred, but I wasn't counting.

IIRC, the dialogue was that there was the King's Guard, the Dora Milaje, the Border Tribe, and the Jabari Tribe. I was curious what the King's Guard was and why there weren't any War Dogs (I guess they're more spies than soldiers, though).

Yeah, I'm guessing the War Dogs are more CIA. They probably aren't used in the front lines.

Given the nature of this particular battle, I'm guessing all we see are the Wakandan equivalent of infantry.

[Cville]

IS MCU Wakanda a warrior nation? If you think about it, only three of the tribes are militaristic:

1. The Border Tribe, because, well, it's their JOB.
2. The Dora Milaje, same reason (although different job).
3. The Jabari, who are outsiders.

There's really no reason for members of the Mining, River, or Merchant tribes to have warriors (other than a tribal champion, perhaps). And of the three that do, one is a ceremonial force (the DM), one was understrength after a recent rebellion, and the third eschew technology for the most part. If you think about it from that perspective, they did pretty well to field the force they had.

I would say yes. Each tribe had a challenger. I would think he/she would have to train and compete with others. And considering it's a key aspect to potentially becoming the nation's leader, every child would know it they want to become "president", gotta know how to fight.

[DigiCom]

Looking at the movie, I'd say a couple hundred, but I wasn't counting.

IIRC, the dialogue was that there was the King's Guard, the Dora Milaje, the Border Tribe, and the Jabari Tribe. I was curious what the King's Guard was and why there weren't any War Dogs (I guess they're more spies than soldiers, though).

I think they are probably these guys with the gold breastplates in the throne room scenes.



They look even more ceremonial than the DM.

I would say yes. Each tribe had a challenger. I would think he/she would have to train and compete with others. And considering it's a key aspect to potentially becoming the nation's leader, every child would know it they want to become "president", gotta know how to fight.

"Knowing how to fight in a tribal challenge" != "Trained soldier". Challenges have rules... war doesn't.

[nj06]

are the Dora's a tribe? I feel like they aren't

In the movies they were not a tribe but were more like an sacred/prestigious order. In the comics, while they do seem to have some authority over the Jabari lands and are developing a community/society, I still would not consider them a tribe just yet.

[nj06]

I think they are probably these guys with the gold breastplates in the throne room scenes.



They look even more ceremonial than the DM.



"Knowing how to fight in a tribal challenge" != "Trained soldier". Challenges have rules... war doesn't.

I believe those are indeed the King's Guard. I like how the blades on their spears are much wider. The golden body-armor looks cool too.

[Ezyo1000]

IS MCU Wakanda a warrior nation? If you think about it, only three of the tribes are militaristic:

1. The Border Tribe, because, well, it's their JOB.
2. The Dora Milaje, same reason (although different job).
3. The Jabari, who are outsiders.

There's really no reason for members of the Mining, River, or Merchant tribes to have warriors (other than a tribal champion, perhaps). And of the three that do, one is a ceremonial force (the DM), one was understrength after a recent rebellion, and the third eschew technology for the most part. If you think about it from that perspective, they did pretty well to field the force they had.

Given their tradition, I would say they are still a warrior nation. Yes each tribe has a champion which means they still keep to that mindset, and given any of the tribe's can ascend to the throne and become King/Queen or Black panther, they should still be still. On top of that, there we're some Wakandan soldier's that were dressed differently then the border tribe and they weren't jabari. Which leads me to believe that there is a standard army as well

[DigiCom]

Given their tradition, I would say they are still a warrior nation. Yes each tribe has a champion which means they still keep to that mindset, and given any of the tribe's can ascend to the throne and become King/Queen or Black panther, they should still be still. On top of that, there we're some Wakandan soldier's that were dressed differently then the border tribe and they weren't jabari. Which leads me to believe that there is a standard army as well

Apparently, those are the "King's Guard". Which seem a bit redundant with the DM around, but I suppose T'Challa's cousins have to go somewhere.

[MindofShadow]

IS MCU Wakanda a warrior nation? If you think about it, only three of the tribes are militaristic:

1. The Border Tribe, because, well, it's their JOB.
2. The Dora Milaje, same reason (although different job).
3. The Jabari, who are outsiders.

There's really no reason for members of the Mining, River, or Merchant tribes to have warriors (other than a tribal champion, perhaps). And of the three that do, one is a ceremonial force (the DM), one was understrength after a recent rebellion, and the third eschew technology for the most part. If you think about it from that perspective, they did pretty well to field the force they had.

My head canon has always been that Wakanda have forced conscription at a certain age for everyone (so like Israel or something). Leading to a small standing army and that everyone else is trained in case of war. The rest of the country is basically a militia ready to be called upon as needed.

Like in SWAD, where T'challa was goign over the slain shoulders, and how one of them was a farmer or something.

They are sooooooooooooooo small that the only way they would have a chance in some sort of military campaign would be a steep technological advantage + every person in the country being able to handle a weapon if needed.