Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[XPac]

Exactly, at least Kang is an Avenger level threat. And as for last villain used? Yeah it was isht because adversary was a isht villain that had been punked by the x men yet in BP he was so powerful BP and Wakandans had to pray to Storm? Nah. Thats why that was dumb. But Kang? Or kree? Or something where maybe Wakandans space are more hardcore and merk fools left and right, not be on some slave trade obsession allegory that Coates had been fixated on since he started his tenure

I think if you're going to borrow rogues from another existing franchise, you're usually better off getting the lower profile ones.

Firstly because you have more freedom to do whatever you want with them (unlike say Doom), and secondly because there's at least a CHANCE you can snag them away from the other rogues gallery (like Daredevil snagging Kingpin from Spider-Man). A Morlun or an Adversary potentially can be more of a long term loan from the Spider-Man or X-Men franchises because their relatively low profile characters in very very large rogues galleries. But a Kang will never really leave the Avengers rogues gallery because hes' probably second only to Ultron as far as being their most common opponent.

So rather than the Kree or Skrulls, if you go with say the Dire Wraiths, you have something you can potentially weave into the mythos. They're part of the ROM's rogues gallery, but it's not like he'll be needing them anytime soon. If you mine marvel for stuff no one else is using, you can potentially expand the mythos in a more meaningful way than an otherwise cool one shot appearance might be.

[Rumble]

Exactly, at least Kang is an Avenger level threat. And as for last villain used? Yeah it was isht because adversary was a isht villain that had been punked by the x men yet in BP he was so powerful BP and Wakandans had to pray to Storm? Nah. Thats why that was dumb. But Kang? Or kree? Or something where maybe Wakandans space are more hardcore and merk fools left and right, not be on some slave trade obsession allegory that Coates had been fixated on since he started his tenure

Spent alllllll that time giving Shuri those ass-pull powers... just to job her out to some backpage x-villain in order to priortize Storm over her. Ouch.

Aaron's BP beats that backpage villain solo dolo

[Frontier]

The only thing I've found interesting about Kang is that sometimes thet get Steven Blum to do the voice work. Lol.

Jonathan Adams was a better Kang in my opinion.

(It doesn't help that Blum's Kang was a bit of a wimp).

[The Cool Thatguy]

You know, if you were going to do a time traveling, space Wakanda type situation and you wanted it to be epic...


Kang should have been the villain. Just saying

Yeah, agreed. Kang, the ultimate conqueror vs. T'Challa would have been amazing.

He is a team threat yes, but solo heroes beat team threats all the time when writers put some effort into it.

[MindofShadow]

Yeah, agreed. Kang, the ultimate conqueror vs. T'Challa would have been amazing.

He is a team threat yes, but solo heroes beat team threats all the time when writers put some effort into it.

Kang is super cinematic too. Dudes begging to be the main villain of Avengers 6 now that they got the rights back.

Start getting those feats in now!

Wakandan technology is a match for anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[XPac]

Yeah, agreed. Kang, the ultimate conqueror vs. T'Challa would have been amazing.

He is a team threat yes, but solo heroes beat team threats all the time when writers put some effort into it.

It's okay to have a solo Avenger beat a team threat once in a blue moon... you just don't want to do it often.

The Avengers conceptually are a group designed to deal with threats that none of them can handle alone. But when you're at the point where one Avenger can repeatedly deal with that threat, then at that point you really don't need the Avengers. Just that one hero who repeated beat the bad guy.

But as far as Kang and Black Panther specifically... I think in this case Rama Tut might actually be the version of Kang T'Challa might claim more in his persona rogues gallery, because he's not a version the Avengers have fought often. And his ties to egypt potentially means he could link him to the Egyptian gods somehow.

[The Cool Thatguy]

It's okay to have a solo Avenger beat a team threat once in a blue moon... you just don't want to do it often.

The Avengers conceptually are a group designed to deal with threats that none of them can handle alone. But when you're at the point where one Avenger can repeatedly deal with that threat, then at that point you really don't need the Avengers. Just that one hero who repeated beat the bad guy.

But as far as Kang and Black Panther specifically... I think in this case Rama Tut might actually be the version of Kang T'Challa might claim more in his persona rogues gallery, because he's not a version the Avengers have fought often. And his ties to egypt potentially means he could link him to the Egyptian gods somehow.

In the current arc, T'Challa would have been perfectly positioned to defeat Kang without undermining the threat he poses to the Avengers. He's already in the empire, albeit in the slave pits, and is leading the rebellion/uprising

Rama Tut was Kang just slumming it, really.

[XPac]

In the current arc, T'Challa would have been perfectly positioned to defeat Kang without undermining the threat he poses to the Avengers. He's already in the empire, albeit in the slave pits, and is leading the rebellion/uprising

Rama Tut was Kang just slumming it, really.

But this is where borrowing a villain from another franchise potentially limits you. If the primary villain in this arc is Kang, then you can't effect the status quo THAT much. You can beat Kang, but you can't necessarily overthrow him or kill him or anything like that. It's similar to fighting Doom in that you have to basically leave him the way you got him.

When you have your own villain, you can kill him or have Nakia overthrow him and take over his kingdom or whatever else you want. These aren't even the actual 616 versions, so T'Challa can decorate his front lawn with this Killmongers head on a stick if he wants.

Not argung against using established big name characters mind you... just mentioning the benefits of using your own.

[Ezyo1000]

Spent alllllll that time giving Shuri those ass-pull powers... just to job her out to some backpage x-villain in order to priortize Storm over her. Ouch.

Aaron's BP beats that backpage villain solo dolo

That's thing. He wastes all this tone and effort on something just to throw it aside for non franchise characters. JA has been head and shoulders better than what we have seen in the solo.

And that Storm ass pull was the dumbest thing ever

[Ezyo1000]

Kang is super cinematic too. Dudes begging to be the main villain of Avengers 6 now that they got the rights back.

Start getting those feats in now!

Wakandan technology is a match for anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kang vs T'Challa would be epic as hell, I really want to see Wakandan tech pushed to it's absolute limits. Space Wakanda could of been that but unfortunately it's not


Also lol at all the mental gymnastics to why Tchalla had to be limited or certain villains deserve some sort of protection from Tchalla

[XPac]

Kang vs T'Challa would be epic as hell, I really want to see Wakandan tech pushed to it's absolute limits. Space Wakanda could of been that but unfortunately it's not


Also lol at all the mental gymnastics to why Tchalla had to be limited or certain villains deserve some sort of protection from Tchalla

Truthfully yes... Avenger level threats should get a DEGREE of protection from individual Avengers. You can do it sparringly, but utlimately the point of an Avenger level threat is that they're a match for all the Avengers. If one Avenger can beat them, then it no longer takes all the Avengers assembled to handle them... just the one Avenger that can beat them.

THere are ways to get around that though. You just have to protect the villain to the point where even if he loses to the solo Avenger, you still believe they are a credible threat to the hole team. It CAN be done with a writer that knows how to protect a villain even in a loss. Iron Man and Black Panther have battled Doom solo a couple of times... but the effort was made to make Doom still look credible to the point where even after his loses he can show up on the Avengers door step tommorow without anyone doubting for a second that he couldn't take them.

Like anything else, it's about execution.

[The Cool Thatguy]

But this is where borrowing a villain from another franchise potentially limits you. If the primary villain in this arc is Kang, then you can't effect the status quo THAT much. You can beat Kang, but you can't necessarily overthrow him or kill him or anything like that. It's similar to fighting Doom in that you have to basically leave him the way you got him.

When you have your own villain, you can kill him or have Nakia overthrow him and take over his kingdom or whatever else you want. These aren't even the actual 616 versions, so T'Challa can decorate his front lawn with this Killmongers head on a stick if he wants.

Not argung against using established big name characters mind you... just mentioning the benefits of using your own.

I don't see it as that limiting, given the nature of time travel in the MU. Freeing an entire timeline while Kang still holds onto his empire in other timelines is one way to claim victory, for example. Shaming him, is another.

No villains are defeated for 'all time', and borrowing villains can work fine with effort. Everyone remembers Spider-Man's fight with Juggernaut, for example

[XPac]

I don't see it as that limiting, given the nature of time travel in the MU. Freeing an entire timeline while Kang still holds onto his empire in other timelines is one way to claim victory, for example. Shaming him, is another.

No villains are defeated for 'all time', and borrowing villains can work fine with effort. Everyone remembers Spider-Man's fight with Juggernaut, for example

I'm not saying borrowing a villain can't work... just saying it's limited. Spider-Man beating Juggernaut is fine. Juggy lost the fight, and walked out of it with his status quo completely uneffected. No harm no foul. That's how borrowing from another franchise usually works... you give back what you borrowed in reasonably the same shape you got it in.

Its really only an issue if you want to do more. If you want to effect the characters status quo, then you usually need either a minor villain or your own. But if you're talking your basic story of hero punching out a villain and leaving them for the proper authorities, it's a non issue. Given how many super heroes live in the same city, it's frankly a miracle we don't see more overlap than we do.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'm not saying borrowing a villain can't work... just saying it's limited. Spider-Man beating Juggernaut is fine. Juggy lost the fight, and walked out of it with his status quo completely uneffected. No harm no foul. That's how borrowing from another franchise usually works... you give back what you borrowed in reasonably the same shape you got it in.

Its really only an issue if you want to do more. If you want to effect the characters status quo, then you usually need either a minor villain or your own. But if you're talking your basic story of hero punching out a villain and leaving them for the proper authorities, it's a non issue. Given how many super heroes live in the same city, it's frankly a miracle we don't see more overlap than we do.

You say limited like it's a bad thing.

I agree, Kang should not be a regular rogue for Panther. He's an Avenger/world threat. But he could easily be used to tell a great story or two. The ultimate conqueror vs. a king of an undefeated nation almost writes itself.

[XPac]

You say limited like it's a bad thing.

I agree, Kang should not be a regular rogue for Panther. He's an Avenger/world threat. But he could easily be used to tell a great story or two. The ultimate conqueror vs. a king of an undefeated nation almost writes itself.

Limitations is only a bad thing for the writer if they want to do more than your typical "beat the bad guy and leave them for the cops" story.

Overall I think limiting what a book can do to a borrowed character in principal is a GOOD thing. It forces everyone to take care of each others toys.