Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Dboi654]

Eh, the sequel is in the development stage right now so it'll be things like script, scheduling shoots, casting and working out production details. If you ask me, I'm hoping the movie has maybe fewer action sequences but they're longer and better choreographed. I like them in the first movie but I think except the final battle and the chase scene that they're shorter than I hoped. You don't have to have lots of action all the time. Just make it count when it does come along.

John Wick is the best Hollywood can do in imitating Hong Kong cinema. That's really what those films are for. I doubt anyone in the cast is willing to put in the amount of (dangerous) work to achieve that. But that film also had Halle Berry in it so I guess it can be done (I also haven't seen JW 3 tbf). But why not? Coogler can shoot action. We know he can. I just want to see him get more comfortable with it.

The first 45mins to an hour of JW3 has some of the most creative and well choreographed action scenes I have ever seen in my life. Even the dog fight with Halle Berry was really good and had a mixed of parkour with it and the horse scenes really cool. It does get exhausting towards the end and the story isn't as strong as the first movie but out of the 3 movies, the third one has the best action. It's one of the reason it is the highest grossing film so far out of the whole franchise.

If Coogler can create action scenes up to that level for the sequel, then I will tip my hat to him.

[Ezyo1000]

The first 45mins to an hour of JW3 has some of the most creative and well choreographed action scenes I have ever seen in my life. Even the dog fight with Halle Berry was really good and had a mixed of parkour with it and the horse scenes really cool. It does get exhausting towards the end and the story isn't as strong as the first movie but out of the 3 movies, the third one has the best action. It's one of the reason it is the highest grossing film so far out of the whole franchise.

If Coogler can create action scenes up to that level for the sequel, then I will tip my hat to him.

Yeah.. Nevermind the fact that Coogler was able to create a Billy dollar BP movie, one that shattered all types of records and was the first marvel movie (and 3rd in cinema history in the US) to gross 700 mil domestic and get nominated and win some Oscars while having the movie get talked about and referenced in other tv shows all this time after the movie dropped... Nah if he can produce the level of action sequences that JW3 had then he deserves a hat tip.... By the way, all 3 John Wick movies with domestic and WW numbers combined still don't match BPs domestic cume.. but Nah man let's keep worrying that Coogler somehow ain't been making history with BP and that he needs to really buckle down and get it right this time

[Dboi654]

Yeah.. Nevermind the fact that Coogler was able to create a Billy dollar BP movie, one that shattered all types of records and was the first marvel movie (and 3rd in cinema history in the US) to gross 700 mil domestic and get nominated and win some Oscars while having the movie get talked about and referenced in other tv shows all this time after the movie dropped... Nah if he can produce the level of action sequences that JW3 had then he deserves a hat tip.... By the way, all 3 John Wick movies with domestic and WW numbers combined still don't match BPs domestic cume.. but Nah man let's keep worrying that Coogler somehow ain't been making history with BP and that he needs to really buckle down and get it right this time

I'm just worried about the action for the sequel (other than stories and other key elements). All the awards and others are a bonus to me.

Box office numbers are cool and all but doesn't really dictate whether the movies were good or not to me even though I liked BP. Captain Marvel made 1.1 billion but I didn't really care much about it. Some of the greatest movies don't have high box office numbers or worldwide accolades. Regardless of JW3 numbers, I had a blast while watching it.

[MindofShadow]

Shouldn't we be happy Marvel and Coogler are taking their time with it as opposed to rushing it out?

We heard about the BP movie back in 2013, right? It came out 5 years after that and major announcements came in 2017. It's quite obvious Coogler is taking his time with it and getting the Nolan treatment. I'd rather have that than a rushed out sequel.

Besides Feige said they'll announce Phase 4 plans this summer, so relax. That should start June or July.

naw bruh, sky is falling!

This movie needs to be as good as Mission Impossible, Jon Wick, *insert whatever movie came out this month* !!!!

Same thing different day from the same people lol

(Honestly I don't care if they add new characters or not. You can have the same crop of characters plus one or two new ones because the established Wakandans are all very interesting and their introspectiveness and development is what made the film so good in the first place. I want to know how T'Challa and co. all change with all the events that have happened and yet to come. I care more about that than a bunch of new faces in my opinion).

Imagine having a cast that stellar, from top to bottom, then wondering "why doesn't marvel add more people! Godfather2!!!!"

We will get new villains, and that is probably it. More likely to give established people a larger role (W'kabi redemption arc tour! more Bro'baku, give Ramonda something to do) than suddenly add in more supporting cast for no reason.

BTW that casting call about the Asian characters is rumored to be for Shang Chi or Eternals which are supposed to start production I believe this year.

Exactly

Quick google search also says Letita was announced as shuri in april 2017... less than a year before the movie came out

[MindofShadow]

I'm just worried about the action for the sequel (other than stories and other key elements). All the awards and others are a bonus to me.

Box office numbers are cool and all but doesn't really dictate whether the movies were good or not to me even though I liked BP. Captain Marvel made 1.1 billion but I didn't really care much about it. Some of the greatest movies don't have high box office numbers or worldwide accolades. Regardless of JW3 numbers, I had a blast while watching it.

John Wick was sick.

Expecting that sort of action in a PG13 disney movie just comes off as disingenuous though. You know that isn't even a remote possibility.

[Dboi654]

Well that's where Ryan Coogler and his team's creativity including the stunt coordinator will have to come in to play.

Doesn't have to be bloody but it just needs to creative and inspired for a PG-13 movie same way WS was inspired by The Raid. JW3 had an advantage that the director was a professional fighter and a stunt coordinator that worked with Reeves on the Matrix movies.

[Blind Wedjat]

I think action concerns are valid, and I don't think there's really any harm in aspiring for greatness on that front. I think John Wick is a very high and slightly unrealistic bar, but it can be looked at. In general MCU action that isn't Russo brother directed can actually be better. I think Coogler does stuff better than they do (as do Gunn and Waititi) but the Russos are overall better.

I want to see Coogler really flex his muscles this time, like he did with Creed. We know he has it. He showed it in some of the BP fights too (casino fight and first vs Killmonger in particular). But I think he was still trying to get comfortable directing those kinds of fights, and Marvel may have not completely taken off the reins. The latter isn't particularly bad but it does lead to that homogeneity which I personally think is becoming stale in the MCU.

So the script or Coogler himself can stage more fights he can actually shoot well and be far more involved in, or he chooses to go with big action set pieces himself and tries to direct them. Main thing, I think they can be a little bit more drawn out and the dynamics can change a bit. Stealth missions, infiltrations, daring rescues, bigger car chases and more complicated fight scene scenarios would be nice.

What I have been personally thinking about is that the action sequences should less be about whether T'Challa can get hurt or not, and more about if he can protect other people (loved ones or civilians), keep the fight self contained and secret, and whether or not the fight is a morally good choice.

[MindofShadow]

Well that's where Ryan Coogler and his team's creativity including the stunt coordinator will have to come in to play.

Doesn't have to be bloody but it just needs to creative and inspired for a PG-13 movie same way WS was inspired by The Raid. JW3 had an advantage that the director was a professional fighter and a stunt coordinator that worked with Reeves on the Matrix movies.

The entire action is rated R, violent as hell, brutal close up fatalities, 80% with guns.

There is no model there to "copy." Everything about it is so detached from what BP is as a character and Marvel as a company its pointless. All you can really get out of it is "plan ahead when on a mission" lol

I have no problem modeling off successful movie franchises, but John Wick isn't it.

[XPac]

I think action concerns are valid, and I don't think there's really any harm in aspiring for greatness on that front. I think John Wick is a very high and slightly unrealistic bar, but it can be looked at. In general MCU action that isn't Russo brother directed can actually be better. I think Coogler does stuff better than they do (as do Gunn and Waititi) but the Russos are overall better.

I want to see Coogler really flex his muscles this time, like he did with Creed. We know he has it. He showed it in some of the BP fights too (casino fight and first vs Killmonger in particular). But I think he was still trying to get comfortable directing those kinds of fights, and Marvel may have not completely taken off the reins. The latter isn't particularly bad but it does lead to that homogeneity which I personally think is becoming stale in the MCU.

So the script or Coogler himself can stage more fights he can actually shoot well and be far more involved in, or he chooses to go with big action set pieces himself and tries to direct them. Main thing, I think they can be a little bit more drawn out and the dynamics can change a bit. Stealth missions, infiltrations, daring rescues, bigger car chases and more complicated fight scene scenarios would be nice.

What I have been personally thinking about is that the action sequences should less be about whether T'Challa can get hurt or not, and more about if he can protect other people (loved ones or civilians), keep the fight self contained and secret, and whether or not the fight is a morally good choice.

I think aspiring for better is always good, but I don't think the concerns on that front are really all that valid. The first movie was more than fine. Doesn't mean we can't hope for better the second time around but it's hardly something we actually need to lose sleep over. It's all nit picking... which is fine, because it's what the internet does and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But it's not an actual problem either. Just small stuff they can tweak and improve on next time around.

[Blind Wedjat]

All you can really get out of it is "plan ahead when on a mission" lol

Essentially why I tend to suggest the Mission Impossible movies as a blueprint they could take inspiration from, because they good ones incorporate this into the action very naturally, and that's easier than doing the "three steps ahead" in the plot itself (you need a really, really smart writer and director to pull it off). Also because the good ones also feature a wide variety of action scene scenarios that aren't just "beat up bad guys in this location." Coogler with Morrison have both got great eyes, even with scenes that have got motion in them. I'd love to see their take on those kind of action beats.

The action team dynamic can also be very similar to those movies easily.

[MindofShadow]

I think action concerns are valid, and I don't think there's really any harm in aspiring for greatness on that front. I think John Wick is a very high and slightly unrealistic bar, but it can be looked at. In general MCU action that isn't Russo brother directed can actually be better. I think Coogler does stuff better than they do (as do Gunn and Waititi) but the Russos are overall better.

I want to see Coogler really flex his muscles this time, like he did with Creed. We know he has it. He showed it in some of the BP fights too (casino fight and first vs Killmonger in particular). But I think he was still trying to get comfortable directing those kinds of fights, and Marvel may have not completely taken off the reins. The latter isn't particularly bad but it does lead to that homogeneity which I personally think is becoming stale in the MCU.

So the script or Coogler himself can stage more fights he can actually shoot well and be far more involved in, or he chooses to go with big action set pieces himself and tries to direct them. Main thing, I think they can be a little bit more drawn out and the dynamics can change a bit. Stealth missions, infiltrations, daring rescues, bigger car chases and more complicated fight scene scenarios would be nice.

What I have been personally thinking about is that the action sequences should less be about whether T'Challa can get hurt or not, and more about if he can protect other people (loved ones or civilians), keep the fight self contained and secret, and whether or not the fight is a morally good choice.

Out of curiosity, which of the action set pieces do you believe could be improved? There were a lot.

- Nigeria
- vs Mbaku tribal fight
- Casino
- Korea car chase
- vs Killmonger tribal fight
- BP vs Border Tribe
- Dora vs Killmonger
- Nakia/Shuri vs Killmonger
- Ross vs jets
- Dora/Jabari vs Border Tribe
- BP vs Killmonger

IMO...

- Nigeria: too dark in theater, good at home, I loved have BP moved in this. I enjoyed it

- vs Mbaku tribal fight- some mild nitpicks in editing but I feel it was highly enjoyable and pretty as hell

- Casino- mild nitpicks with T'challa's physicallity (I prefer more brutality when facing goons) but high enjoyable, pretty as hell

- Korea car chase- no complaints, high enjoyable

- vs KM tribal- mild nitpick of making it clear Tchalla was holding back in beginning, but other than not, highly enjoyable, pretty as hell

- BP vs Border Tribe- I think i liked this more than once... the shield jump wakanda slam spear combo was KINO as hell and the type of superhero **** I live for. I don't have strong feelings towards the rhinos but the Panther Rage callback was cool. I think it was all just a touch too busy, would have liked to see T'challa mow through more goons but htere was so much going on I understand it.

- Dora vs KM- cool, no complaints. showed off skill of dora but the inevitability of KM beating them

- Nakia/Shuri vs Killmonger- I'm not sure this fight was necessary. It was cool to see the weapons but I think they should have just sent nakia/shuri straight to battle of border tribe. We already know KM wrecks trained warriors, didn't really need to see it again. coulda used the time elsewhere IMO.

- Ross v jets- understand ross needs something to do I guess but, meh, could have lived without

- Dora/Jabari vs Border Tribe- cool to see mbaku wreck but otherwise forgetabble

- BP vs Killmonger- in theaters, cgi for first half of fight was mediocre (much better at home). I generally liked the choreograpy but the biggest issue is not seeing the hits connect. It looked more like dancing til the finial killing blow (which was cool as ****).

[Blind Wedjat]

Out of curiosity, which of the action set pieces do you believe could be improved? There were a lot.

- Nigeria
- vs Mbaku tribal fight
- Casino
- Korea car chase
- vs Killmonger tribal fight
- BP vs Border Tribe
- Dora vs Killmonger
- Nakia/Shuri vs Killmonger
- Ross vs jets
- Dora/Jabari vs Border Tribe
- BP vs Killmonger

Honestly my overarching improvement would be the length for most of these. I noticed this the first time I watched the movie. I expected some fight scenes to last longer. I didn't think of it as a negative exactly but it'll be the thing I'd add for most. These are mostly nitpicks as well.

Nigeria: Too short IMO. Love the way it starts, the confusion T'Challa causes and the choreography is probably the best here, but I would have liked a bit more stealth and a tense and fearful atmosphere before T'Challa beats up the rest of the goons solo. Nakia really didn't need to be in the fight, but I don't mind giving her a few more moves.

- vs Mbaku tribal fight: I actually think this fight is perfect as it is. One of my favourites from the movie.

- Casino: Too short as well. B-roll footage showed T'Challa doing a lot more fight choreography pulled off really well by Chadwick. Should have kept it in. Also think in general T'Challa could have been shown to move faster and hit harder, but the choreography is great.

- Korea car chase: Conflicted with this one. If I want it longer, I'd want to see T'Challa use the hacked car less and run on his own. But I think it may have been a bit too long too. I don't know. I'll have to rewatch it.

- vs Killmonger tribal fight: Also a bit too short, but it also works as it is. I think the pacing of the overall fight should have been slower, some dialogue thrown in between the fighting and some more wider shots used. But the choreography and performance by everyone here was fantastic.

- BP vs Border Tribe: Some iff CGI and again, I wanted to see more, particularly in regards to hand to hand and T'Challa's own physicality. Something like the sweet moment he got running with the gauntlet in Endgame but this time running to get to Shuri or Killmonger (which we were actually supposed to get) would have been it.

- Dora vs Killmonger: Completely fine except for some CGI.

- Nakia/Shuri vs Killmonger: Very underrated fight IMO. I mean Nakia is just easily hitting Killmonger like it's nothing. His suit was his only protection. Again, just some CGI nitpicks.

- Ross vs jets: The length was fine (maybe could have been shorter) but I wished the kept the shots we saw in the second trailer. Those looked far better in terms of CGI and had more dynamic camera angles.

- Dora/Jabari vs Border Tribe: This fight is fine too.

- BP vs Killmonger: Mostly the same as everyone else. Too dark, iffy CGI in some cases. Also think a bit of it could have taken place on the platform before the fell (and I don't like that falling shot even though it's cool in concept). Part of me also thinks the fight could have been more dynamic. Rather than fighting in the same spot, they could have fought on the train, in the train, and the last moments should have been fought underneath the statue of Bast at the end so we get to see them in the sun. You can still have that very last death scene as it is. Only thing that may change is T'Challa picking Erik up to let him see it. Also think the actual fighting could have been a little bit more brutal.

Again mostly nitpicks. I think one thing that may have helped the overall final battle would have been a spanning one take shot that showed everything happening at the same time (like in the Avengers movies). That way they could have cut some of the individual fights a bit and focus on the one with T'Challa and Killmonger. I also sometimes feel it was too big, and someone once suggested it should have just been like a challenge fight but with both guys in their suits fighting right in front of everyone. But I understand the symbolism in what we got.

[Dboi654]

I think action concerns are valid, and I don't think there's really any harm in aspiring for greatness on that front. I think John Wick is a very high and slightly unrealistic bar, but it can be looked at. In general MCU action that isn't Russo brother directed can actually be better. I think Coogler does stuff better than they do (as do Gunn and Waititi) but the Russos are overall better.

I want to see Coogler really flex his muscles this time, like he did with Creed. We know he has it. He showed it in some of the BP fights too (casino fight and first vs Killmonger in particular). But I think he was still trying to get comfortable directing those kinds of fights, and Marvel may have not completely taken off the reins. The latter isn't particularly bad but it does lead to that homogeneity which I personally think is becoming stale in the MCU.

So the script or Coogler himself can stage more fights he can actually shoot well and be far more involved in, or he chooses to go with big action set pieces himself and tries to direct them. Main thing, I think they can be a little bit more drawn out and the dynamics can change a bit. Stealth missions, infiltrations, daring rescues, bigger car chases and more complicated fight scene scenarios would be nice.

What I have been personally thinking about is that the action sequences should less be about whether T'Challa can get hurt or not, and more about if he can protect other people (loved ones or civilians), keep the fight self contained and secret, and whether or not the fight is a morally good choice.

Would vibranium bullets be an option to make him more vulnerable in the sequel?

[Cville]

Wal-Mart has BP bicycle helmets for kids that look pretty cool.

[XPac]

Would vibranium bullets be an option to make him more vulnerable in the sequel?

Using real life physics (to the degree that real life physics can even apply to fictional comic book metal), I'm not entirely sure a bullet made out of vibranium would even leave the chamber of the gun that was firing. But assuming it could fire, I don't necessarily think it would be much more effective than a regular pullet. His suit should still be able to absorb the kinetic energy of a bullet, even a bullet made out of vibranium.

I think anti-metal vibranium bullet might be a different story.

But it's comic book science, so if they want to they can say that vibranium weapons can penetrate vibranium defenses the same way pieces of Supermans own planet are somehow poisonous to him. You can kind of say whatever you want.

If they want to borrow from the Luke Cage show, Judas bullets made out of chitauri metal were able to hurt cage. They could say it is more effective against vibranium if they wanted to. Fictional metal can do whatever the heck they want I suppose.