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  1. #7771
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Depends on the context. Becuse the couple I remember off the top of my head sends T'challa straight to depression ville rather quickly. He smiles but its followed or immediately preceded by being a gigantic sad worry wort.


    And I swear, did everyone forget about poor Monica?
    So it be one of those fake smirks that people use to make you thing everything is ok, but really it isnt?

  2. #7772
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Depends on the context. Becuse the couple I remember off the top of my head sends T'challa straight to depression ville rather quickly. He smiles but its followed or immediately preceded by being a gigantic sad worry wort.


    And I swear, did everyone forget about poor Monica?
    Lmao the fact of the matter is YOU know exactly the times Iím thinking of. It isnít whether the relationship bring him down. Itís clear they lift each otherís spirits. They love spending time with one another. Their connection may indeed be problematic. They may be detrimental to each other in the long run. The point is they love one another in a place outside of all yours and whomever elseís greatest sense of self love is to practice that which makes you happy. They make one another happy. Thatís that on that.

  3. #7773
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post


    Shuri never once called him a slave to Wakanda. You made that up, so you need to unmake it. I agree there is no hidden meaning to the idea of him being a slave and doing the bidding of white masters all the while willingly taking the name of a white that wasn't forced upon him. His mind was colonized to believe that was his way of interacting with the great white world. You miss the message because it isn't in service to your narrative. Shuri called him a slave because he was one. He chose to revert back to his old ways that's why he mentions falling back into old habits. All of this happened AFTER HE AND T'CHALLA HAVE A PHILOSOPHICAL DEBATE ABOUT WHAT HIS ROLE IS AND THE IMPORTANCE OF HIS NAME. The chains are there because he chose to fall back on old habits. He made himself a slave to those habits and is responsible for his place at the time. Shuri is the black woman unwilling to coddle him and demands that he does better. T'Challa is the black man that understands the pride of being a black man a handle him with a slightly more delicate approach but it's clear BP had the moral high ground. Thunderball was beaten by his omd habits. That's reflective of the black community in America as a whole, but I digress. What have you been reading?
    I don't need to unmake anything because she says it in the following scan



    If you don't see the issue with this dialogue from her, add this to what she said to the Wakandan women who were captive and being raped, then I don't know what to tell you.
    I'm not missing the message because I an looking at beyond a single issue or scan and the message is pretty clear about what Coates thinks about Black men, Africa, T'Challa and the rest of the mythos.. it's pretty poor.


  4. #7774
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    Badass for different reasons. That's what we've been discussing for the past few hours. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough. I love when T'Challa swaggers. He's not the average man so no average man can swagger the way he does. This T'Challa is reflective of movie T'Challa. We know that because Shuri is. T'Challa is a good man and it's hard for a good man to be king. The sad part is the more we delve into it the broader message becomes clearer. I've lurked here for quite some time. You might even say I have a passing familiarity with this place. While I came to love him through Storm, I cherish him as his own man. I champion him for everything he represents. It makes me sad to see him reduced to angry black man tropes and the noble bruiser devoid of any emotional maturity. When I read Coates' T'Challa i get the sense of a man that while may be contemptuous of his relationship to the world (a king that must think about country above all else and everything with it) I also see a man that wants to follow his heart and his mind.

    Quite frankly, this emotionally stunted idea of a black man to engrossed with his ideas of masculinity and unwillingness to show some emotional depths is a really big problem. Let black men be vulnerable. Let black men cry. Let black give and receive love. Whether he's with Storm or not, if he's dependent upon his significant other to carry the emotional baggage of the relationship that's a problem. It's a huge problem. Black men need to do better. It's one if the reason I love Hollywood and everyone else on Queen Sugar. His conversation with Violet directly informs the point I'm making.

    It really reminds me of the gripes about MCU T'Challa and his reaction/hesitancy at the thought of killing his cousin and the man his father left in America. It really sounds like black manhood and emotional maturity doesn't quite go together. It's sad because human emotion is vital to the human experience. Mass media already dehumanizes us. It's a whole different subject when we dehumanize ourselves and we don't even realize it. Why are anger and violence the only acceptable forms of masculinity for black men? Doesn't this all sound too familiar to the role Thunderball actually plays in the story? I don't wanna get too preachy tho.
    Thing is, most of is posters here have zero issue discussing the intricate Layers of T'Challa. No one ever said once that T'Challa must be stoic and show zero emotions and be this brooding character.

    Coates in S1 constantly said T'Challa was too distracted and made characters say he didn't care about his people and that he resented them. My favorite counter to that nonsense is this scan.




    If you want to have a conversation about the complexity and coolness in all aspects of T'Challa lets have that conversation, but to come in here claiming us posters only want to see brute strength angry black man tropes is not going to get you very far and quite the insult considering we have seen what a writer who wants to elevate T'Challa cab do. And it's not all violence at all.

    I dunno where you get the idea that we want some angry black man devoid of emotion. You keep bringing up the MCU so I think you have the BP appreciation forum confused with the racist unfans and haters who come up with a million excuses for why T'Challa beat their favorite heroes at the box office and who's movie because a cultural movement. Because literally none of the posters here, have ever remotely suggested that he be devoid of emotion. What has been criticised in terms of his emotions are when the story drives and demands he act out of character to fit the narrative while trying (and failing) to com off as complex
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 09-15-2019 at 10:55 PM.

  5. #7775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I don't need to unmake anything because she says it in the following scan



    If you don't see the issue with this dialogue from her, add this to what she said to the Wakandan women who were captive and being raped, then I don't know what to tell you.
    I'm not missing the message because I an looking at beyond a single issue or scan and the message is pretty clear about what Coates thinks about Black men, Africa, T'Challa and the rest of the mythos.. it's pretty poor.

    You do realize that his chains are removed before he is remanded to Shuri’s custody, right? Are you sure you’re up to the task of discussing this particular issue objectively? I gave you multiple chances to correct your false accusations. Pretty soon I’m going to just start calling you a liar because purposely misrepresent that truth. It’s not cute. Neither that attitude of anti-black intellectual women. Shuri states the obvious but you keep missing it because you want something to be offended by. Why is that, Ezyo1000?

  6. #7776
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    This is what happens when someone hasn't read Priest's or Hudlin's runs, sees scans of T'Challa from said run and assumes both writers depicted T'Challa as an angry black man of all things.

  7. #7777
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    This is what happens when someone hasn't read Priest's or Hudlin's runs, sees scans of T'Challa from said run and assumes both writers depicted T'Challa as an angry black man of all things.
    Like clock work.

    T'challa is the opposite of an angry black man. When he loses his cool it is a big moment because it rarely happens and he is so cold and calculating 99% of the time.

    Which is why some of us were initially excited to see T'challa PISSED when his mom got blown up, because we thought it was gonna snap him out of his CoatesComa. But all that turned into was getting punched twice and then meeting with despots lol.

    They probably don't even know Monica Lynn existed.




    looks awfully happy there
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 09-16-2019 at 05:03 AM.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  8. #7778
    Amazing Member RDMXV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I recommend that you read all the runs. Emotional content is in all of them. He even crys in Priest a couple of times. But I think you're missing the other side of the emotional coin. Where is the laughter and happiness with family that we see in the movie in the Coates run? Because it there in Hudlin along with love and tragedy. Coates only has one theme depression and pessimism. I think you should be equally outraged that he doesn't let Tchalla smile either.
    Why though? I never noticed this and generally it is correct of coates era. But is that needed from T'Challa? I don't think that vibe would fit most of the themes personally but it seems like the majority of these disagreements boil down to what do you want this character to be vs what is this character. So what should he be? Seems like half the forum's answer is "everything".
    Last edited by RDMXV; 09-16-2019 at 05:28 AM.

  9. #7779
    Futurist Marvell2100's Avatar
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    I think T'Challa is very happy for these reasons:

    1. Agents of Wakanda

    2. Avengers

    3. BP II

    4. Love interest in comics on panel.

    T'Challa does show emotion like other heroes. Didn't know it was an issue.

  10. #7780
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    So what should he be?
    T'chadwick


    He was a perfect mix of warrior confidence, royalty confidence, loving brother, and loving boyfriend, while allowing the seriousness of his job to be expressed, being honorable, while keeping that "hero" trait where he does the right thing as a hero even though it might not be the right thing as a king and paying for that decision.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  11. #7781
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    If all the scans are with Storm, isn't that an example of her carrying his emotional baggage or at least creating a sort of co-dependency?
    That arguably is an issue he's got. Co-dependency probably is a bit too strong a term, but I think it was established back in Priests run that Storm is one of the few people on the planet T'Challa will allow himself to be vulnerable to.

    But that's not an uncommon problem a lot of heroes who seemingly are in complete control have. Batman will do it with Alfred for example... but that's pretty much it. Some heroes just don't allow themselves to be vulnerable in that way, but it can come with a pretty heavy emotional burden. And that's how marvel likes their guys... feet of clay.

  12. #7782
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    You do realize that his chains are removed before he is remanded to Shuri’s custody, right? Are you sure you’re up to the task of discussing this particular issue objectively? I gave you multiple chances to correct your false accusations. Pretty soon I’m going to just start calling you a liar because purposely misrepresent that truth. It’s not cute. Neither that attitude of anti-black intellectual women. Shuri states the obvious but you keep missing it because you want something to be offended by. Why is that, Ezyo1000?
    You do know that in the scan I posted Shuri calls him a slave right? Are you sure your up to the task of having an actual discussion based on actual conversation of what people have actually said or are you going to continue to sling false accusations in a (failing) attempt to discredit people's arguments?

    Nothing I said was false. Shuri DOES call Franklin a slave. "Do not thank me, the gratitude of slaves is noxious to me" Shuri DOES tell two women who were captive in rape treehouses that they should of accepted their fate to be raped and killed so that the golden city would still stand. That ain't my Shuri, the one I know was loyal to Wakanda, she didn't take any of that isht lightly. She would never say anything like that to her people or to black people.

    So miss me with that anti intellectual Black women isht, because it's becoming very apparent that your knowledge of BP and his mythos and this BP thread are limited to likely Coates and the MCU, which is fine but your whole "posters here want angry Black man and brute strength tropes" and now this anti intellectual Black women nonsense ain't cute. And is simply going to make people take you less seriously

  13. #7783
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    You do know that in the scan I posted Shuri calls him a slave right? Are you sure your up to the task of having an actual discussion based on actual conversation of what people have actually said or are you going to continue to sling false accusations in a (failing) attempt to discredit people's arguments?

    Nothing I said was false. Shuri DOES call Franklin a slave. "Do not thank me, the gratitude of slaves is noxious to me" Shuri DOES tell two women who were captive in rape treehouses that they should of accepted their fate to be raped and killed so that the golden city would still stand. That ain't my Shuri, the one I know was loyal to Wakanda, she didn't take any of that isht lightly. She would never say anything like that to her people or to black people.

    So miss me with that anti intellectual Black women isht, because it's becoming very apparent that your knowledge of BP and his mythos and this BP thread are limited to likely Coates and the MCU, which is fine but your whole "posters here want angry Black man and brute strength tropes" and now this anti intellectual Black women nonsense ain't cute. And is simply going to make people take you less seriously
    I'd like to add Shuri saying she destroyed Atlantis because she woke up in a bad mood was also disrespectful.

  14. #7784
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    Why though? I never noticed this and generally it is correct of coates era. But is that needed from T'Challa? I don't think that vibe would fit most of the themes personally but it seems like the majority of these disagreements boil down to what do you want this character to be vs what is this character. So what should he be? Seems like half the forum's answer is "everything".
    Yes because he ain't Batman. He isn't some depressed guy brooding and can never be happy, sure he ain't happy go Lucky Peter Parker but Hudlin showed us a multi faceted BP, who smiled and laughed and was legitimately happy.

    The real question is why don't you think he can't be happy and smile? Really T'Chadwick nailed T'Challa down pretty well

  15. #7785
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I'd like to add Shuri saying she destroyed Atlantis because she woke up in a bad mood was also disrespectful.
    Exactly, I wasn't even looking at that. But what type bullisht is that? its completely inaccurate yet people who don't know better and only know Coates BP will eat that isht up because he has an agenda. The BP mythos deserves better than to suffer under Coates nonsensical offensive take on Wakanda and Africa

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