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  1. #9616
    Incredible Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    BP: AOW 27,590 a 12,289 drop from the last issue

    BP #17 15,260 a 886 drop from the previous issue

    https://comichron.com/monthlycomicss...9/2019-10.html
    Last edited by KingNomarch; 11-11-2019 at 06:56 PM.

  2. #9617
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    While this debate is illuminating, I really only need to know when Coates has been relieved of duty. Who can replace him while staying away pointless themes like the merits of hillbilly marriage with a king from Africa. If Black Panther books numbers are running this low surely they are planning on an out strategy to proceed a reboot. I just can't believe that Marvel will let the book limp on when Coogler is about to kick BP 2 off. After seeing cap, Thor, and now the X-Men get a reinvigoration they can't be pleased with the quality and energy coming out of the comics right now.
    Last edited by dkrook; 11-11-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  3. #9618
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    While this debate is illuminating, I really only need to know when Coates has been relieved of duty. Who can replace him while staying away pointless themes like the merits of hillbilly marriage.
    Don't denigrate our long suffering hill billies, please.

    Also, I don't think Coates is going anywhere for a while. He seems to enjoy his current platform (sadly). If he ever gets an X-book however, he might leave all others alone.

  4. #9619
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    I assume some of you watched game of thrones. Other than the wives in training description they remind me of the fostering/ hostage thing going on that Martin took from a common practice in many monarchies. Send a beloved child somewhere out of the familie's proximity of protection so if the family gets out of line...... It's a cmmon fantasy trope. And while maybe outdated, and possibly, i said possibly, a poor choice by Priest to have used the brides in training moniker, it gives a little insight into the Wakandan past and its ongoing tension between the more traditional tribes opposed to the more forward leaning.
    Reality is for those who are afraid of science fiction.

  5. #9620
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    As much as I loved Priest's run, I find myself baffled by later writers, in one respect.

    Why is Priest the only one creating Wakandian institutions?

    I mean, seriously. Did we need an army of Red Shirt Doras?

    The Dogs of War were created as an exiled secret police, does anyone even remember that anymore? They seem to an extra in every Wakanda scene these days

    Would it kill writers to create something more? I mean hell, the X-Men have at least a dozen anti-mutant human organizations, can't Wakanda get more than two defense institutions?

  6. #9621
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    As much as I loved Priest's run, I find myself baffled by later writers, in one respect.

    Why is Priest the only one creating Wakandian institutions?

    I mean, seriously. Did we need an army of Red Shirt Doras?

    The Dogs of War were created as an exiled secret police, does anyone even remember that anymore? They seem to an extra in every Wakanda scene these days

    Would it kill writers to create something more? I mean hell, the X-Men have at least a dozen anti-mutant human organizations, can't Wakanda get more than two defense institutions?
    There were those dudes in the black robes and pink boots wielding those staffs which suit purple lightning. Not exactly sure who or what those guys are (or why they wear pink boots), but at least it's something other than the HZ.

  7. #9622
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    BP: AOW 27,590 a 12,289 drop from the last issue

    BP #17 15,260 a 886 drop from the previous issue

    https://comichron.com/monthlycomicss...9/2019-10.html
    That not bad since it started at 40, it's above half, hopefully the 2 part stories will allow it to stabilize so if someone doesn't like a story, they only need to wait until the next one comes up which would be quickly

  8. #9623
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    As much as I loved Priest's run, I find myself baffled by later writers, in one respect.

    Why is Priest the only one creating Wakandian institutions?

    I mean, seriously. Did we need an army of Red Shirt Doras?

    The Dogs of War were created as an exiled secret police, does anyone even remember that anymore? They seem to an extra in every Wakanda scene these days

    Would it kill writers to create something more? I mean hell, the X-Men have at least a dozen anti-mutant human organizations, can't Wakanda get more than two defense institutions?
    I think it's fine having the Dora's and the HZ. What needs to be done is for there to be actual meaningful development, which for the Dora's that's Okoye but the Hz lack a representative. But what I would do is actually add a 3rd faction which would be the Wakandan army then break up the 3 factions in power and expectations.


    The dm would be the smallest but deadliest of the 3 in a 1 to 1 ratio. We heard before there were 18 tribes. So make it 18 Dora's but the face of that is Okoye. Compared to the other factions 1 Dora is equal to 3 HZ and 5 Wakandan soldiers.

    The HZ the medium faction 5 times the size of the Dora's. Though 1 on 1 they may not be as dangerous as a Dora, In terms of group combat, they are unmatched and trained to adapt to any sort of combat, be it stealth, recon, or Frontline combat. HZ always move in group's of 5-6 in ways they are like a pack of wolves you can't focus on the one you see, it's the ones you don't who are the deadliest. Akili or Kasper could be the face

    The Wakandan army is the largest and least dangerous of the 3 comparative to each other, but what they make up for it with sheer numbers and firepower. The readily standing army is 20000 strong and when fully assembled
    is around 80 to 100 thousand (that number can go up if it's an emergency such as a large invasion by a alien force). This faction are the ones sporting N'Yami motherships, prowler's (smaller versions) and any cool Wakandan vehicle tech we fans want to see. Wkabi is the face of that.

    That is how I would break up the factions, each one would have representatives and we would get to know each ones unique functions and strengths
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 11-11-2019 at 10:46 PM.

  9. #9624
    Get Hectic! FLEX HECTIC's Avatar
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    Newsflash: Pointman Returns For One More Post!


    Black Panther... Significant Other/Love Interest... Rogues Gallery... Wakanda... Period!


    Baby's Mammas in Training... Ride or Die W'kabi's... Random Elder Absentee Council Members... Super Duper Secret Service Hitman...


    Batman has multiple plausible love interests in Catwoman, Talia, Vicki Vale, Poison Ivy or even Harley Quinn if he wanted that extra smoke from the Joker!


    Black Panther is still in "Struggle Soup" land among women that are often in the frigid FRIEND ZONE as untouchable or they are close relatives not for sale!


    Batman also has a way better rogues gallery one of which has the most profitable comic book/rated R movie ever with other characters that could hold their own in a solo movie like the Riddler or Bane!


    Note: If Christopher Nolan got a hold of Halle Berry's Catwoman it might have had a much better tone and better story but I digress!


    Killmonger still can't sell a solo comic consistently nor can any of the side characters in the World of Wakanda that they desperately try to push!


    The focus on all these non selling characters is lost within the fact that a single black male character has had few featured love interests since 1966!


    How hard is it to lose the Storm drama and just flat out make or in the case of MCU Nakia remake a true love interest that is untouchable except in the BP intellectual property franchise!


    The blueprints for super heroes are pretty standard as far as love goes it's just a matter of how each story arc is presented for eye candy's sake!


    It seems as if when it comes to black male love there is always some other agenda that gets in the way of what should be straight forward storytelling!


    A romance novelist would shake their head at the thought of such a character ducking the obvious issue to play footsie foot with female characters like his sister that are off limits sexually!


    If I had to choose between the same ole same ole stories of Tales of The Doras or Revenge of The HZ for some Black Panther/Princess Zanda porn it's not even close!


    At some point a Black Panther fan has to put down a BP comic in favor of Batman who at least is teased by a larger volume of love interests just because...


    I am not saying that BP needs to be a playboy like Tony Stark but I'm kind of done with the ensemble women cast that are all like sisters to him sucking all the air from a potential Zanda hook up!


    I'm pretty sure that there are a gang of other African princesses ready to get some Disneystore love as made up love interests on the fly... I mean go into the great book of African female names, pick one and just give her a makeshift African country to rule like Zanda's Narobia and start some trouble!


    The low sales of the comic indicate that something else other than the usual has to happen for this franchise to succeed going forward and MCU Nakia was just enough tease to prove financially what is essentially missing!


    BP needs a good old fashioned Frank Frazzetta cover to reming us why we love this genre so much...
    Get Hectic!

  10. #9625
    Be Seeing You… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    As much as I loved Priest's run, I find myself baffled by later writers, in one respect.

    Why is Priest the only one creating Wakandian institutions?

    I mean, seriously. Did we need an army of Red Shirt Doras?

    The Dogs of War were created as an exiled secret police, does anyone even remember that anymore? They seem to an extra in every Wakanda scene these days

    Would it kill writers to create something more? I mean hell, the X-Men have at least a dozen anti-mutant human organizations, can't Wakanda get more than two defense institutions?
    I think there are several reasons.

    First is a desire to focus on T'Challa himself. Not that every writer does this.

    Second is that it's difficult to find a role for them to play that isn't already filled. We already have a situation where the functions of the DM and HZ overlap.

    Next, as Agents Of Wakanda has shown, there's a tendency towards writing espionage groups as less spy, more commando. So that's another whole set of possibilities closed off, as everything seems to default to "another group of Special Forces".

    And finally, there's a distinct tendency towards tearing things down in comics, rather than building up, which means that a new creation (assuming the writer WANTS it to stick around) is more likely to be ignored or destroyed by the next one.

    Priest wasn't the last creation, BTW. I believ that was PRIDE, under Hudlin.

  11. #9626
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Here's how I'd break up the factions:

    King's (or Queen's) Guard/Royal Guard/[insert made up Wakandan title here]: Infantry and cavalry soldiers charged with protecting Wakanda's royal residences (i.e. palaces and houses, royal banks etc.). Think of them as the equivalent of those British soldiers with the red coats and bearskin hats. They should look like the royal guards in the film or in this panel from The Ultimates (God I love that design).

    Wakandan Armed Forces/[insert made up Wakandan title here]: Military services responsible for the defense of Wakanda. This includes: the Royal Navy/Wakandan Navy/[insert made up Wakandan title here] and the Royal Marines/Wakandan Marines/[insert made up Wakandan title here]; the Wakandan Army/[insert made up Wakandan title here]; and the Royal Air Force/Wakandan Air Force/[insert made up Wakandan title here]. Includes special forces groups in each of those branches.

    Dora Milaje: The all-female units responsible for guarding the current sovereign of Wakanda and other members of the royal family, especially during foreign expeditions. This unit is led by Okoye.

    Wakanda's intelligence agency/[insert made up Wakandan title here]: The civilian foreign intelligence service of Wakanda, tasked with gathering, processing, and analyzing national security information from around the world, primarily through the use of human intelligence. Basically, their network of spies.

    Hatut Zeraze: A Wakandan special ops/black ops unit that branches off of the Wakandan Armed Forces. Specialises airborne operations, counter-insurgency, counter-terrorism, foreign internal defense, covert ops, direct action, hostage rescue, high-value targets/manhunt, intelligence operations, mobility operations, and unconventional warfare. Think of them as the equivalent of Navy SEALs or the Green Berets.
    Last edited by Blind Wedjat; 11-12-2019 at 06:02 AM.

  12. #9627
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I think there are several reasons.

    First is a desire to focus on T'Challa himself. Not that every writer does this.

    Second is that it's difficult to find a role for them to play that isn't already filled. We already have a situation where the functions of the DM and HZ overlap.

    Next, as Agents Of Wakanda has shown, there's a tendency towards writing espionage groups as less spy, more commando. So that's another whole set of possibilities closed off, as everything seems to default to "another group of Special Forces".

    And finally, there's a distinct tendency towards tearing things down in comics, rather than building up, which means that a new creation (assuming the writer WANTS it to stick around) is more likely to be ignored or destroyed by the next one.

    Priest wasn't the last creation, BTW. I believ that was PRIDE, under Hudlin.
    I think when writing comic's one should adhere to a set of rules. Like I made in my division of the 3 man military factions in my above post. Each one has a strict set of rules to adhere to, so they don't over lap. J said the DM and HZ would be the most elite,however they have the smallest numbers because there's a trade off. Each faction would specialize in specific weapons and tech, abd each would have unique looks. The problem is that it appears writers use whichever faction and without much thought that they are different and have different skill sets

  13. #9628
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Here's how I'd break up the factions:

    King's (or Queen's) Guard/Royal Guard/[insert made up Wakandan title here]: Infantry and cavalry soldiers charged with protecting Wakanda's royal residences (i.e. palaces and houses, royal banks etc.). Think of them as the equivalent of those British soldiers with the red coats and bearskin hats. They should look like the royal guards in the film or in this panel from The Ultimates (God I love that design).

    Wakandan Armed Forces/[insert made up Wakandan title here]: Military services responsible for the defense of Wakanda. This includes: the Royal Navy/Wakandan Navy/[insert made up Wakandan title here] and the Royal Marines/Wakandan Marines/[insert made up Wakandan title here]; the Wakandan Army/[insert made up Wakandan title here]; and the Royal Air Force/Wakandan Air Force/[insert made up Wakandan title here]. Includes special forces groups in each of those branches.

    Dora Milaje: The all-female units responsible for guarding the current sovereign of Wakanda and other members of the royal family, especially during foreign expeditions. This unit is led by Okoye.

    Wakanda's intelligence agency/[insert made up Wakandan title here]: The civilian foreign intelligence service of Wakanda, tasked with gathering, processing, and analyzing national security information from around the world, primarily through the use of human intelligence. Basically, their network of spies.

    Hatut Zeraze: A Wakandan special ops/black ops unit that branches off of the Wakandan Armed Forces. Specialises airborne operations, counter-insurgency, counter-terrorism, foreign internal defense, covert ops, direct action, hostage rescue, high-value targets/manhunt, intelligence operations, mobility operations, and unconventional warfare. Think of them as the equivalent of Navy SEALs or the Green Berets.
    I think you could consolidate your factions onto the 3 main ones honestly Royal guard and DM could pull double duty, same as the HZ and Wakandan CIA. Too many branches means zero development on a bloated cast.

    I agree with you on the design of the Wakandan armed forces. Rocaforts design is absolutely amazing and exactly how I'd want them to look. The HZ should look like Hickmans NA and the DM look like MCU doras

  14. #9629
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Last edited by Blind Wedjat; 11-12-2019 at 07:50 AM.

  15. #9630
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I think you could consolidate your factions onto the 3 main ones honestly Royal guard and DM could pull double duty, same as the HZ and Wakandan CIA. Too many branches means zero development on a bloated cast.

    I agree with you on the design of the Wakandan armed forces. Rocaforts design is absolutely amazing and exactly how I'd want them to look. The HZ should look like Hickmans NA and the DM look like MCU doras
    I mean I kinda agree with DigiCom here that there's too much overlap. I also think it doesn't make for great worldbuilding and fleshing out Wakanda, making feel less whole and lived in. I think if you establish groups with specific skill sets and keep them within their ranges it doesn't lead to the red-shirt problem.

    The royal guards are stoic, unreactive statue-like guards of the palace. All you need to know is that they're exist, they're in their post and they defend the palace directly should it ever be under attack. They don't need character development honestly. Same with the armed forces. All you need to know is that they're there and they can do their jobs when there's a war. No need for development also. Likewise with the intelligence agency (technically you need two for domestic and international but we'll focus on international for now) you only need to know a few players. Like Nakia who could be one of their operatives.

    The Dora and the Hatut should get the most focus because by their nature you'd either see them the most (as the personal bodyguards of the king and royal family) or are the most interesting (as the special/black ops team). You can give the Hatut the best tech and the Dora the most fight scenes like Hudlin and Priest did.

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