Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Vibranium Weave]

Except...

Aquaman's success wasn't because "he's an underwater superhero". And it certainly wasn't Momoa's "Aquabro" acting. It was the CGI set pieces.

I'm pretty sure Marvel's effects houses already know how to do those.

I'll be blunt: I have no bloody idea what Coogler will do next. I don't know the man, I don't know how he thinks, and he hasn't dropped any hints.

But I don't understand why almost EVERY idea for BP2 outside this thread (and quite a few inside) is "Marvel will use the second movie to introduce another hero or major villain to the MCU" whether it's Namor, Doom, or whomever they want the 'next Thanos' to be. And yet, I've not seen ANY suggestions of that for the movies that were already announced. Where's the equivalent theory that Namor will show up in Doctor Strange 2? After all, they were both Defenders, right? And they could use Doom too! Triumph & Torment, amirite?

But no, every theory has Strange actually being the star, not just a vehicle to introduce another movie arc. So why in the Hell does BP get treated as a dumping ground for every new guy? Do they think he needs the help? Or that Coogler is so lacking in ideas?

It seems to me that all of these rumors are merely wishful thinking that one favorite arc or another will be adapted... because of all the MCU movies in the last decade, there have been so many. Why, there have been... *carry the 1* 0 adaptations of comic arcs! So naturally the most successuful solo film in the MCU will adapt goddamn DOOMWAR or whatever excuse you have for Namor.

In a few weeks, there's D23. If Feige has any news, it'll be there. It certainly won't be some fly-by-night blog or Youtube channel with "sources" that are probably "that guy at the LCS who says he knows somebody who knows somebody".

I think an interesting story can be told with different kingdoms in a political conflict with Namor & Zanda in BP 2.

I believe I have also said I hope they introduce Atlantis and Namor in the Eternals movie so BP 2 doesn't have to do too much world building for Atlantis.

I liked Strum un Drag and the Defenders storyline that 1st pit BP vs Namor. I even liked the portion of Hickman's Avengers book when Atlantis was at war with Atlantis.

Also Namor is a good physical fight for BP. It could add great fight scenes to the movie.It would also look cool to have BP & Wakanda beat Namor & Atlantis on the big screen.

[Ezyo1000]

Or better yet, Coogler continues to hit those real life close to home questions that made BP 1 so good in the first place rather then trying to go with the same superhero formula and end up missing BPs appeal to those who aren't comic nerds.

I don't want Namor in the movie because it doesn't benefit T'Challas world or Wakanda, or his supporting cast or villains but help Namor (because he isn't going to die in the movie if he showed up because he isn't a true villain nor is he apart of BPs rogues.

So all this talk of Namor would probably actually hurt BP 2 rather then help

[XPac]

Or better yet, Coogler continues to hit those real life close to home questions that made BP 1 so good in the first place rather then trying to go with the same superhero formula and end up missing BPs appeal to those who aren't comic nerds.

I don't want Namor in the movie because it doesn't benefit T'Challas world or Wakanda, or his supporting cast or villains but help Namor (because he isn't going to die in the movie if he showed up because he isn't a true villain nor is he apart of BPs rogues.

So all this talk of Namor would probably actually hurt BP 2 rather then help

I don't think marvel having a shared universe really hurts the individual franchises... I think if anything it's actually one of the strengths of the MCU. These aren't stand alone movies where the heroes and their supporting casts are completely isolated from the rest of the universe. Black Panther showed up in Captain America, and it was fine. Iron Man showed up in Spider-Man, and it was fine. Falcon showed up in Ant-Man, and it was fine. Dr. Strange showed up in Thor, and it was fine.

If Coogler decides to use characters who aren't directly a part of the BP mythos (and obviously he might not), it will be fine because marvel studios will make sure it's fine like they did with every other instance when this happened. Heroes completely doing their own thing is more DC (these days at least). Marvel is a shared universe, and SOMETIMES that means seeing connections to other aspect of the universe.

[Vibranium Weave]

People in this board are saying that they don't want Namor as the villain, but I guess I trust Coogler. What if they announce that queen divine justice and Zanda are in the movie as well? Then you know it's loosely based on Strum Un Drag.

If Namor is being forced on Coogler by the hire ups then I would be worried, but if Coogler has another philosophical question to ask about the black/African experience I'm on board.

To tell a proper Strum un Drag story, you have to involve Rulers of the MCU.

Hopefully Namor is like Klaw in the movie and he's there to move the plot along, but say like Zanda is the real villain.

[Mike_Murdock]

People who don't like Namor as a villain seem to be bringing up AvX, but I think it's safe to say that it won't be that story at all.

I'm indifferent to the idea because I'd probably prefer the Fantastic Four meeting Namor first, but I do like the idea of Kingdom vs. Kingdom in a big geopolitical story. There are plenty of stories that play off Atlantis and Wakanda. The Black Panther's Quest cartoon is a good example.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

You do know know thet were given a few weeks to do VFX wrok that would've taken months to complete

So they reshot/pre-vis the entire battle at the end? I thought it was only the Killmonger fight.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Or better yet, Coogler continues to hit those real life close to home questions that made BP 1 so good in the first place rather then trying to go with the same superhero formula and end up missing BPs appeal to those who aren't comic nerds.

I don't want Namor in the movie because it doesn't benefit T'Challas world or Wakanda, or his supporting cast or villains but help Namor (because he isn't going to die in the movie if he showed up because he isn't a true villain nor is he apart of BPs rogues.

So all this talk of Namor would probably actually hurt BP 2 rather then help

Agree. Probably best to not have him doing Russos type epic battles anyway. We need T'Challa to have exciting action (T'Challa accomplished some great feats in the last movie, but it needs to me more exciting). I'd be ok with more opening forest fights and also see if you could translate the visceral waterfall fights into suit combat.

Not sure major setpieces is the way to go. With Namor you'd need major setpieces.

[Ezyo1000]

I don't think marvel having a shared universe really hurts the individual franchises... I think if anything it's actually one of the strengths of the MCU. These aren't stand alone movies where the heroes and their supporting casts are completely isolated from the rest of the universe. Black Panther showed up in Captain America, and it was fine. Iron Man showed up in Spider-Man, and it was fine. Falcon showed up in Ant-Man, and it was fine. Dr. Strange showed up in Thor, and it was fine.

If Coogler decides to use characters who aren't directly a part of the BP mythos (and obviously he might not), it will be fine because marvel studios will make sure it's fine like they did with every other instance when this happened. Heroes completely doing their own thing is more DC (these days at least). Marvel is a shared universe, and SOMETIMES that means seeing connections to other aspect of the universe.

For Cap his supporting cast was non existent do he needed more people. IM kinda took away from Spiderman, falcon felt forced into Ant-Man, strange wasn't really apart of Thor and CW was essentially Avengers 2.5 so it was a full cast of heroes.

Black Panther doesn't need to have other heroes show up because his cast is already full. Adding anymore is simply taking away precious time from BP, his cast, and world building for Wakanda.

Unlike any other hero to date, Tchallas cast is nearly fully intact and each character is interesting and has something to bring and have already made a big impact on the audience. Keep it in house, BPs rogues deserve to be used and not sidelined for "big name" characters that only the comic nerds know about

[skyvolt2000]

Except...

But I don't understand why almost EVERY idea for BP2 outside this thread (and quite a few inside) is "Marvel will use the second movie to introduce another hero or major villain to the MCU" whether it's Namor, Doom, or whomever they want the 'next Thanos' to be. And yet, I've not seen ANY suggestions of that for the movies that were already announced. Where's the equivalent theory that Namor will show up in Doctor Strange 2? After all, they were both Defenders, right? And they could use Doom too! Triumph & Torment, amirite?

1) Using Black Panther as a stealth launchpad for someone else has been done before-see the current book when there is "stormy" weather in Wakanda this month.

2) It's LESS work and money to introduce someone in BP2 than their own movie. Sort of like we saw with WW in Batman loves Superman movie before she got her.

3) The failure to build up any of BP's foes have come home to ROOST. This is not Spider-Man or Batman where their foes show up everywhere to mess with folks.

4) The unfans are hoping to see a flooding of Wakanda that will STICK.

5) Unfans are Desperately wanting X-Men & FF to show up-and since BP has links to both-why not his film. Anything to overshadow him.

6) Disney does it to ensure another billion by putting someone MAJOR in it. Be it Deadpool or Miles Morales.

Of course if Disney wanted to be anal-have Miles Morales visit Wakanda and get bit by a Wankandan spider.

[XPac]

For Cap his supporting cast was non existent do he needed more people. IM kinda took away from Spiderman, falcon felt forced into Ant-Man, strange wasn't really apart of Thor and CW was essentially Avengers 2.5 so it was a full cast of heroes.

Black Panther doesn't need to have other heroes show up because his cast is already full. Adding anymore is simply taking away precious time from BP, his cast, and world building for Wakanda.

Unlike any other hero to date, Tchallas cast is nearly fully intact and each character is interesting and has something to bring and have already made a big impact on the audience. Keep it in house, BPs rogues deserve to be used and not sidelined for "big name" characters that only the comic nerds know about

Sure, BP doesn't need to have other heroes show up. None of the marvel characters NEED it. It's simply a question of whether or not marvel wants other characters to cross over as this is a shared universe. Unlike DC, marvel is actually capable of having a functional shared universe that actually works.

If Coogler doesn't any heroes to cross over, that's perfectly fine. And likewise it's perfectly fine if he does, because there's no harm done. He can do whatever the heck he wants and he'll make it work, just like other marvel movies did.

[Ezyo1000]

1) Using Black Panther as a stealth launchpad for someone else has been done before-see the current book when there is "stormy" weather in Wakanda this month.

2) It's LESS work and money to introduce someone in BP2 than their own movie. Sort of like we saw with WW in Batman loves Superman movie before she got her.

3) The failure to build up any of BP's foes have come home to ROOST. This is not Spider-Man or Batman where their foes show up everywhere to mess with folks.

4) The unfans are hoping to see a flooding of Wakanda that will STICK.

5) Unfans are Desperately wanting X-Men & FF to show up-and since BP has links to both-why not his film. Anything to overshadow him.

6) Disney does it to ensure another billion by putting someone MAJOR in it. Be it Deadpool or Miles Morales.

Of course if Disney wanted to be anal-have Miles Morales visit Wakanda and get bit by a Wankandan spider.

Really it's only 4 & 5 that I feel are the big ones. Honestly no one really knew anything about Klaw, Erik and M'Baku outside of comic nerds. Now Erik stands among the top most sympathetic and best villains in superhero history, M'Baku has been elevated to a true homeboy and fan favorite. T'Challa still has plenty of villains to use. In fact, Because they aren't very developed in comics it gives a good opportunity to really have the villains resonate with the audience because the history behind them bis going to cause less restrictions to staying true to the source material. Though I will say if zanda is used then Redjacks version should be the blueprint.

Disney is smarter then Letting their biggest IP, the one that hit 700 mil domestic first and Oscar winner among other achievements, be overshadowed in favor of trying to appeal to a smaller demographic and lose out on the ones that propelled it to the level it reached

[Ezyo1000]

Sure, BP doesn't need to have other heroes show up. None of the marvel characters NEED it. It's simply a question of whether or not marvel wants other characters to cross over as this is a shared universe. Unlike DC, marvel is actually capable of having a functional shared universe that actually works.

If Coogler doesn't any heroes to cross over, that's perfectly fine. And likewise it's perfectly fine if he does, because there's no harm done. He can do whatever the heck he wants and he'll make it work, just like other marvel movies did.

Uh IM, Cap, and Thor ALL needed other heroes to show up on their movies for sure. Cap and Thor being the biggest. Caps entire cast was gone, because the time jump, Thor's supporting cast was bloated and unused and useless in the movies and had to be killed off and reset (and no one cared).

There are some heroes who don't need to have other heroes show up (BP) and there are those who do. This is due to impact level of the supporting cast m if they are weak they get removed (Thor) if they are impactful they stay and get used outside of their franchise even (Shuri, Okoye, M'Baku in IW/EG. So tell me again why other heroes need to show up in BP? Also tell me what other heroes had an our of franchise villain show up in their movie as the main antagonist? I'll wait..

[XPac]

Uh IM, Cap, and Thor ALL needed other heroes to show up on their movies for sure. Cap and Thor being the biggest. Caps entire cast was gone, because the time jump, Thor's supporting cast was bloated and unused and useless in the movies and had to be killed off and reset (and no one cared).

There are some heroes who don't need to have other heroes show up (BP) and there are those who do. This is due to impact level of the supporting cast m if they are weak they get removed (Thor) if they are impactful they stay and get used outside of their franchise even (Shuri, Okoye, M'Baku in IW/EG. So tell me again why other heroes need to show up in BP? Also tell me what other heroes had an our of franchise villain show up in their movie as the main antagonist? I'll wait..

Cap has plenty of heroes in his supporting cast. Falcon, Bucky, Sharon... heck Caps supporting cast is getting their own show, that's how solid Steve's supporting cast is. If necessary they could have created MCU versions of Nomad, D-Man, Diamondback, etc. Cap has been around a very very long time, with a rich enough history to stand on it's own perfectly well without any other heroes in it. Black Widow was certainly a big part of Steves movies, but she could have been replaced by Sharon if they wanted to. But instead they gave Widow some time in Caps movie and it worked out fine.

Thor didn't need other hereos in his movies either. Sure Hawkeye debuted in Thors movie but he obviously wasn't necessary for the film. Yes, Hulk showed up in Ragnorok but that easily could have been Beta Ray or any other cosmic character in marvel. THey used Hulk more for Hulks benefit than Thors... but again, that's fine. It's a shared universe, so why not?

I don't have to tell you why other heroes need to show up in BP because again I said none of the heroes NEED to show up in each others movies. The issue is PURELY whether or not marvel wants to use them. If Coogler wants to use heroes or villains outside of the BP mythos, then it's perfectly fine to do so just like other movies have. But conversely if he doesn't want to use outside heroes, that's perfectly fine too.

If you're waiting me to explain to you why BP needs to use outside heroes and villains, you're in for a long wait because I never said that it does. It's simply up to Coogler to use whoever the heck he feels like, and I'm sure it'll work just fine. The point being there's not a whole lot to really worry about either way.

[Holt]

[BlackClaw]

Nice to see T’Challa up in front. It’s also nice to see Shuri and Okoye on there as well.