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  1. #8881
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    I agree...Coates run aint perfect...but this stuff takes so long we forget coates was basically a rookie writing comic books the majority of his BP run...Cap being good is just proof that he has gotten better after experience...starting over would be the worst when it's finally got real good momentum.
    "Remember several years back when Coates introduced contrived rape, gender inequality, a woman telling two other women who were rape victims that they should of accepted their fate and died so the golden city could stand (whatever that means), and every other offense stereotype Coates could sling? "

    "How about that S2 when he reveals that Wakanda is basically a Columbus analogy? And Wakanda is so in capable that it needs the Orishas ™ to save them and that was actually where their success came from and not from their own ingenuity, and if they pray hard enough, they can turn people into gods and let them save their country!"

    "How about that S3, where it's supposedly an allegory for the middle passage (which doesn't make sense) but makes future Wakanda into colonizers, and Wakanda actually thrives and has seen more peace and prosperity they it has in years... When T'Challa is gone, and the magical Orishas ™ (who you to this point we still know nothing about) have returned?"

    Yeah time isn't going to make it more appreciated because there has been nothing added from his story to appreciate. He has no momentum. He fumbled out the gate. Priest, Hudlin, and narcisse fall in line with that appreciation over time. Why? Because their runs are actually good and elevate the character using in continuity charactistics

  2. #8882
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dariel81 View Post
    Agents of Wakanda will hit 12 issues so I'm not worried about that. It's time to accept just like Namor BP simply doesn't sell well
    Except he does. He sells consistently solid numbers. Maybe not Spidey numbers but BP does sell well. If he didn't marvel wouldn't keep giving him solos. Priest and Hudlin proved he can sell well. It's slumping right now because Coates and his cabal of neophytes drove the solo and spin off prospects into the ground and it shows. The best spin offs have been rise and BP vs do. Know what those have in common? They respected the title character and didn't use his name and mythos as a stepping stool for their agenda that doesn't do his mythos any favors

  3. #8883
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    well blade and black panther, maybe spawn, (3 films) in comparison to the innumerable amount of white films I dont think counters that narrative within that genre either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dariel81 View Post
    Agents of Wakanda will hit 12 issues so I'm not worried about that. It's time to accept just like Namor BP simply doesn't sell well
    That absolute state of this thread. Bast have mercy. At least when people go on a "piss on Coates" fest in here, it comes from a place of fandom. Not this... sunken place type comments.

    Who wants to play a game? These are straight facts, no chasers, no opinion, just numbers. Ok some opinion, based on fact though lol.


    - BP v7 #16 is the 8th lowest issue sold in Black Panther history.

    - If you limit it to T'challa lead issues (aka throw out Kasper Cole), BPv7 #16 is the 5th lowest issue sold in Black Panther History. The top 4 were all Liss run.

    - T'challa lead Priest issues never sold under 20K in 49 issues with no marketing gimmicks, no renumbering, no event cross overs. He didnt fall to BP#16 range until his 60th issue using Kasper Cole. For the non Black Panther fans in here, remember, Priest lasted 62 issues with no gimmicks, no renumber, no crossovers, barely any marketing, no movies, no TV, taking an absolute dead character and re-inventing him... WITH editorial interference being forced to use Vin Diesel look alike Kasper towards the end.

    - Hudlin's lowest issue was 19,455.

    - Mayberry's lowest issue was 17,881

    - BPv7, #16 is Coates 40th BP Issue. Priest 40th issue sold 20,188 (and held that number until issue 52! aka had a dedicated fan base until nuked by Kasper).

    - Hudlin's 40th issue he wrote was actually vol5 #2, which sold 33,750. The 40th issue of vol4 was SWAD, written by Aaron. Hudlin's 38th issue sold 19,455.



    - Priest average sales number was 25,241. If you throw out Kasper run, its 27,250.

    - Hudlin's entire volumes averaged 35K. Use only volume 4 (his main one), and its 37,314. If you use issues Hudlin actually wrote (throw out mayberry and aaron), and its 37,114.

    - Coates current average is 42,450. Which is obviously beyond solid... until you dig a bit.

    - If you throat out Coates #1's (aka marketing gimmicks that do not reflect writing quality at all) and his intial legacy renumber marketing gimmick, and his average plummets to 34,462

    - Hell, if you throw out JUST Coates initial #1 that did 200+ K sales that literally had absolutely nothing to do with writing quality and was purely based on speculation and hype, his average drops from 42,450 to 37,180!

    - The entire basis of "Coates is the best seller of BP ever!" is all because of ONE FREAKING ISSUE! that had everyting to do with Hickman, years of no black panther solos, and Coates literary fame and absolutely NOTHING to do with Coate's writing itself. ONE ISSUE!! You throw out that one issue and Coate's SOLD NO BETTER THAT HUDLIN despite a billion dollar movie, despite "twitter followers," despite cartoons, despite merchandise everywhere.

    - Let Coates keep his legacy renumbering, just take out his two #1's, drops to 34,991.

    - If you think I am just chery picking, throw out Hudlins' two #1's and his mariage issue... 35,754.

    Last edited by MindofShadow; 10-22-2019 at 07:03 AM.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  4. #8884
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Saving the previous post for future reference

  5. #8885
    Be Seeing You… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Damn. Folks have occasionally said I drop truth bombs... but that was a truth nuke.

    ETA: (Although, I must correct you on one point. Priest DID have a crossover (with Deadpool) but that barely moved the needle.)

  6. #8886
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    That absolute state of this thread. Bast have mercy. At least when people go on a "piss on Coates" fest in here, it comes from a place of fandom. Not this... sunken place type comments.

    Who wants to play a game? These are straight facts, no chasers, no opinion, just numbers. Ok some opinion, based on fact though lol.


    - BP v7 #16 is the 8th lowest issue sold in Black Panther history.

    - If you limit it to T'challa lead issues (aka throw out Kasper Cole), BPv7 #16 is the 5th lowest issue sold in Black Panther History. The top 4 were all Liss run.

    - T'challa lead Priest issues never sold under 20K in 49 issues with no marketing gimmicks, no renumbering, no event cross overs. He didnt fall to BP#16 range until his 60th issue using Kasper Cole. For the non Black Panther fans in here, remember, Priest lasted 62 issues with no gimmicks, no renumber, no crossovers, barely any marketing, no movies, no TV, taking an absolute dead character and re-inventing him... WITH editorial interference being forced to use Vin Diesel look alike Kasper towards the end.

    - Hudlin's lowest issue was 19,455.

    - Mayberry's lowest issue was 17,881

    - BPv7, #16 is Coates 40th BP Issue. Priest 40th issue sold 20,188 (and held that number until issue 52! aka had a dedicated fan base until nuked by Kasper).

    - Hudlin's 40th issue he wrote was actually vol5 #2, which sold 33,750. The 40th issue of vol4 was SWAD, written by Aaron. Hudlin's 38th issue sold 19,455.



    - Priest average sales number was 25,241. If you throw out Kasper run, its 27,250.

    - Hudlin's entire volumes averaged 35K. Use only volume 4 (his main one), and its 37,314. If you use issues Hudlin actually wrote (throw out mayberry and aaron), and its 37,114.

    - Coates current average is 42,450. Which is obviously beyond solid... until you dig a bit.

    - If you throat out Coates #1's (aka marketing gimmicks that do not reflect writing quality at all) and his intial legacy renumber marketing gimmick, and his average plummets to 34,462

    - Hell, if you throw out JUST Coates initial #1 that did 200+ K sales that literally had absolutely nothing to do with writing quality and was purely based on speculation and hype, his average drops from 42,450 to 37,180!

    - The entire basis of "Coates is the best seller of BP ever!" is all because of ONE FREAKING ISSUE! that had everyting to do with Hickman, years of no black panther solos, and Coates literary fame and absolutely NOTHING to do with Coate's writing itself. ONE ISSUE!! You throw out that one issue and Coate's SOLD NO BETTER THAT HUDLIN despite a billion dollar movie, despite "twitter followers," despite cartoons, despite merchandise everywhere.

    - Let Coates keep his legacy renumbering, just take out his two #1's, drops to 34,991.

    - If you think I am just chery picking, throw out Hudlins' two #1's and his mariage issue... 35,754.

    In summation: This run is sucking the life out the fans and the character. Gimmicks won't save it.

    You can't point out one single impressive thing that T'Challa did.

  7. #8887
    Fantastic Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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  8. #8888
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Ha ha MoS just came in and CLEANED up...

    The truth just dropped in is on some Dino level extinction isht

  9. #8889
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    I agree...Coates run aint perfect...but this stuff takes so long we forget coates was basically a rookie writing comic books the majority of his BP run...Cap being good is just proof that he has gotten better after experience...starting over would be the worst when it's finally got real good momentum.
    Apples and oranges.

    The editors over Cap America are NOT the same guys over Panther. There are things under Cap America banner that would NEVER be allowed that are with Panther.


    Now in terms of story-what has he done for Black Panther? Not Storm or Doras or Thunderball. But Black Panther himself.
    Offering this stereotypical Wakanda that panders to UNFANS is not acceptable.

    Sometimes you need new blood. You need an example of not losing momentum but actually improving? See Miles Morales.

    Saladin Ahmed took over on Miles. A writer of only 4 series-one an Eisner winner on his FIRST series. Where is this other book at Marvel where every single issue has to be reprinted? EVERY ISSUE. Bendis could not do that.

    Eve Ewing took over on Riri. With one issue-she was PRAISED for what she did. Praise lead by a group who photo-shopped her head in a noose when she got hired. Yes she did 12 issues but she's not going anywhere.

    With Dc about to alienate fans galore in 2020. Panther needs a writer who RESPECTS him.



    T'challa lead Priest issues never sold under 20K in 49 issues with no marketing gimmicks, no renumbering, no event cross overs. He didnt fall to BP#16 range until his 60th issue using Kasper Cole. For the non Black Panther fans in here, remember, Priest lasted 62 issues with no gimmicks, no renumber, no crossovers, barely any marketing, no movies, no TV, taking an absolute dead character and re-inventing him... WITH editorial interference being forced to use Vin Diesel look alike Kasper towards the end.
    Don't forget Priest did not want to do the book and did not CARE for Panther. He was slated to do a Falcon book (thus that ending we saw in Cap America & Falcon).
    If that is what he does with something he hates-I would be scared to see what he does with something her loves.

  10. #8890
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Don't forget Priest did not want to do the book and did not CARE for Panther. He was slated to do a Falcon book (thus that ending we saw in Cap America & Falcon).
    If that is what he does with something he hates-I would be scared to see what he does with something her loves.
    I will never understand why people keep acting like Priest's reluctance to write Black Panther is a bad thing.

    As he's said before, he was tired of being the 'Black writer', with his employers assuming that he could/should only write black characters. A black man tired of being pigeon holed? Madness!

    And his reluctance was a great aid in his writing. A good writer is the character's worst enemy, and Priest was a great writer. He developed a long neglected character into a convincing bad ass, standing shoulder to shoulder with Dr. Doom, Namor and Magneto among others. Priest was objective with T'Challa, and that's what allowed him to develop the mythos that he did, a mythos that still stands.

  11. #8891
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I will never understand why people keep acting like Priest's reluctance to write Black Panther is a bad thing.

    As he's said before, he was tired of being the 'Black writer', with his employers assuming that he could/should only write black characters. A black man tired of being pigeon holed? Madness!

    And his reluctance was a great aid in his writing. A good writer is the character's worst enemy, and Priest was a great writer. He developed a long neglected character into a convincing bad ass, standing shoulder to shoulder with Dr. Doom, Namor and Magneto among others. Priest was objective with T'Challa, and that's what allowed him to develop the mythos that he did, a mythos that still stands.
    while it's true that his reluctance proved beneficial to T'Challa, on the flip side, Hudlin wanted to write BP abd we also got a T'Challa that was not only badass, but the rest of the MU had to recognize him and Wakanda as force to be reckoned with and his mythos also still stands as well and his and Priests additions made it to the MCU

  12. #8892
    Fantastic Member Vibranium Weave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    That absolute state of this thread. Bast have mercy. At least when people go on a "piss on Coates" fest in here, it comes from a place of fandom. Not this... sunken place type comments.

    Who wants to play a game? These are straight facts, no chasers, no opinion, just numbers. Ok some opinion, based on fact though lol.


    - BP v7 #16 is the 8th lowest issue sold in Black Panther history.

    - If you limit it to T'challa lead issues (aka throw out Kasper Cole), BPv7 #16 is the 5th lowest issue sold in Black Panther History. The top 4 were all Liss run.

    - T'challa lead Priest issues never sold under 20K in 49 issues with no marketing gimmicks, no renumbering, no event cross overs. He didnt fall to BP#16 range until his 60th issue using Kasper Cole. For the non Black Panther fans in here, remember, Priest lasted 62 issues with no gimmicks, no renumber, no crossovers, barely any marketing, no movies, no TV, taking an absolute dead character and re-inventing him... WITH editorial interference being forced to use Vin Diesel look alike Kasper towards the end.

    - Hudlin's lowest issue was 19,455.

    - Mayberry's lowest issue was 17,881

    - BPv7, #16 is Coates 40th BP Issue. Priest 40th issue sold 20,188 (and held that number until issue 52! aka had a dedicated fan base until nuked by Kasper).

    - Hudlin's 40th issue he wrote was actually vol5 #2, which sold 33,750. The 40th issue of vol4 was SWAD, written by Aaron. Hudlin's 38th issue sold 19,455.



    - Priest average sales number was 25,241. If you throw out Kasper run, its 27,250.

    - Hudlin's entire volumes averaged 35K. Use only volume 4 (his main one), and its 37,314. If you use issues Hudlin actually wrote (throw out mayberry and aaron), and its 37,114.

    - Coates current average is 42,450. Which is obviously beyond solid... until you dig a bit.

    - If you throat out Coates #1's (aka marketing gimmicks that do not reflect writing quality at all) and his intial legacy renumber marketing gimmick, and his average plummets to 34,462

    - Hell, if you throw out JUST Coates initial #1 that did 200+ K sales that literally had absolutely nothing to do with writing quality and was purely based on speculation and hype, his average drops from 42,450 to 37,180!

    - The entire basis of "Coates is the best seller of BP ever!" is all because of ONE FREAKING ISSUE! that had everyting to do with Hickman, years of no black panther solos, and Coates literary fame and absolutely NOTHING to do with Coate's writing itself. ONE ISSUE!! You throw out that one issue and Coate's SOLD NO BETTER THAT HUDLIN despite a billion dollar movie, despite "twitter followers," despite cartoons, despite merchandise everywhere.

    - Let Coates keep his legacy renumbering, just take out his two #1's, drops to 34,991.

    - If you think I am just chery picking, throw out Hudlins' two #1's and his mariage issue... 35,754.

    Break it down and let it be broken!!! TRUTH!!!!

  13. #8893
    Fantastic Member Vibranium Weave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    In summation: This run is sucking the life out the fans and the character. Gimmicks won't save it.

    You can't point out one single impressive thing that T'Challa did.
    The only good thing that came out of Coates run is Brian Steelfreeze's art & ideas

  14. #8894
    Fantastic Member Vibranium Weave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    "Remember several years back when Coates introduced contrived rape, gender inequality, a woman telling two other women who were rape victims that they should of accepted their fate and died so the golden city could stand (whatever that means), and every other offense stereotype Coates could sling? "

    "How about that S2 when he reveals that Wakanda is basically a Columbus analogy? And Wakanda is so in capable that it needs the Orishas ™ to save them and that was actually where their success came from and not from their own ingenuity, and if they pray hard enough, they can turn people into gods and let them save their country!"

    "How about that S3, where it's supposedly an allegory for the middle passage (which doesn't make sense) but makes future Wakanda into colonizers, and Wakanda actually thrives and has seen more peace and prosperity they it has in years... When T'Challa is gone, and the magical Orishas ™ (who you to this point we still know nothing about) have returned?"

    Yeah time isn't going to make it more appreciated because there has been nothing added from his story to appreciate. He has no momentum. He fumbled out the gate. Priest, Hudlin, and narcisse fall in line with that appreciation over time. Why? Because their runs are actually good and elevate the character using in continuity charactistics
    After all of this nonsense by Coates, just put WAID & SAMNEE on the next run to lighten it up lol

  15. #8895
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    while it's true that his reluctance proved beneficial to T'Challa, on the flip side, Hudlin wanted to write BP abd we also got a T'Challa that was not only badass, but the rest of the MU had to recognize him and Wakanda as force to be reckoned with and his mythos also still stands as well and his and Priests additions made it to the MCU
    Frankly, I never found Hudlin's Panther to be bad ass. He was fond of tell, not show. And while yes he gave us Shuri, he also barely developed her at all.

    Hudlin's work, IMO, was like Bendis. He fawns over the character he likes, and thus puts no meaningful obstacles in their face, and gives us no real development.

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