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  1. #8911
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    The thing about art is it doesn't resonate the same with everyone.

    Bad guys kidnapping women in wakanda and then getting beat up sounds like regular comic action. It's weird how women being the target of crime specifically gets under y'all skin in that way but if they were stealing some random important objects instead of humans with the same exact context it would have never been mentioned again. I don't get it truly. The silent panel throwing a guy out the window during that scene was cool as hell to me. Even then it was so inconsequential relatively speaking again yall clinging to that moment is just weird man really weird tbh.

    S2 A columbus analogy? I mean lol I guess. If anything it was just not action packed enough and spread itself to thin. If wakandans pray or wakandan ancestors had to ban together to beat a common enemy to become the unified nation they are now...so? lol I don't see how that's damaging in the least bit. I think a nation inherently is going to wrong someone or something along the way. It's kind of childish to want this squeaky clean behemoth. Where's the internal conflict in that?

    S3 T'Challa established that peace successfully and then was like glad that's over so I can now go through a black hole in space because that's who he is. It's connected to the middle passage because the erasing of memories are similar to how slaves were stripped of their culture. Coates plays with memories and history alot and harps on how they are important. It's actually one of his positives that what has happened actually impacts T'challa's disposition. Some call him mopey T'Challa but again INTERNAL CONFLICT
    Yes I'm sorry, women or anyone being raped gets under my skin. I'm sorry that I don't see it as inconsequential.

    As far everything else Coates has done with BP, it's inconsequential.


  2. #8912
    Be Seeing You… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Could you define what you mean by "realistic" in regards to the gods?
    Acting like ordinary people who just happen to be long******d and super-powered, often with rather modern speech patterns. There's very little epic about them.

  3. #8913
    Fantastic Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    WOW

    Bob Iger just put Coogler in the middle of that Scorsese/coppola debate

    Keith Collins


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    11h11 hours ago
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    “They want to bitch about movies, it’s certainly their right,” Mr. Iger added, saying he’d gladly put those directors’ movies up against features directed for Marvel by Taika Waititi and Ryan Coogler. https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney-...cs-11571804492 … @WSJ
    Pressure's on now Bob. Time to give Coogler supreme backing with Black Panther 2

  4. #8914
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Yes I'm sorry, women or anyone being raped gets under my skin. I'm sorry that I don't see it as inconsequential.

    As far everything else Coates has done with BP, it's inconsequential.

    That's exactly why it worked for the story.

    Doras look sympathetic when they're murdering rapists than say thieves or whatever. You can sort of root for them, or at least understand where they are coming from, even if they are essentially commiting unlawful murder. The long term attempt was never to make the Doras flat out villains, so they needed to make their victims worse than they were.

  5. #8915
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beware Of Geek View Post
    I didn't read it, but if memory serves, Kahndaq is basically Egypt, and hence primarily a Muslim nation(although a fairly liberal one), but Adam himself is Egyptian. Given that he's empowered by several gods (originally, Egyptian ones, but now I think he uses the same set as Billy & co.) using prayer does make a certain amount of sense.

    Unlike Marvel, where gods tend to be treated as Just Another Super-Powered Race, the DC pantheons tend to be more mystically depicted. Even when writers have tried to make them more "realistic" (almost always in WW stories) they rarely get defeated through purely physical means.

    Frankly, I prefer this approach. Gods you can actually punch just don't feel right. And Marvel has treated the Egyptians (including Bast) particularly badly.
    When you decide to make gods actual heroes in books, they often need to be potrayed more down to earth.

    And yes, that does take a certain degree of mystique out of them. People like Reed and Doom have stuff in their closet which can probably take out most gods on earth (as they sem-regularly do to much higher end entities). On the grand scale of things, gods often sounds more impressive than they actually are.

  6. #8916
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    That's exactly why it worked for the story.

    Doras look sympathetic when they're murdering rapists than say thieves or whatever. You can sort of root for them, or at least understand where they are coming from, even if they are essentially commiting unlawful murder. The long term attempt was never to make the Doras flat out villains, so they needed to make their victims worse than they were.
    So clearly the solution is to, like in S2, throw T'Challa and Wakanda under the bus and do more harm then good to the mythos overall, all for characters who aren't apart of the mythos even or ones who we don't give two ishts about.. Smart

  7. #8917
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    So clearly the solution is to, like in S2, throw T'Challa and Wakanda under the bus and do more harm then good to the mythos overall, all for characters who aren't apart of the mythos even or ones who we don't give two ishts about.. Smart
    I suppose it depends on whether or not you feel Wakanda is thrown under the bus for having a problem pretty much every other civilization in the history of mankind has. Like I've said several times, it's already established that Wakanda does have crime... we see kidnapping, drugs, murder, etc. To anyone who assumes Wakanda isn't the only civilization in human history to have human trafficing, it's not that jarring.

  8. #8918
    Fantastic Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    imgur.com/a/g2VfEQS#nAGH8iT

  9. #8919
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaue's Mixtape View Post

    imgur.com/a/g2VfEQS#nAGH8iT
    how much do you want for it?
    The J-man

    I post via my phone a lot, therefore I make the occasional grammatical error. Not an excuse just forewarning you. Feel free to call me out I won't mind.

  10. #8920
    Be Seeing You… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I suppose it depends on whether or not you feel Wakanda is thrown under the bus for having a problem pretty much every other civilization in the history of mankind has. Like I've said several times, it's already established that Wakanda does have crime... we see kidnapping, drugs, murder, etc. To anyone who assumes Wakanda isn't the only civilization in human history to have human trafficing, it's not that jarring.
    Ah yes, the "crack in Wakanda" story so beloved by Panther fans that nobody EVER refers to it.

    To this day, I find it interesting that of all the "hidden kingdoms" of the Marvel U, only Wakanda needs to be made like "every other civilization".

    I've never heard people begging for amphetamines in Attilan or organized crime in Olympia. It's only the African one that needs to reflect the worst parts of the nations around it.

    One wonders why....

  11. #8921
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beware Of Geek View Post
    Ah yes, the "crack in Wakanda" story so beloved by Panther fans that nobody EVER refers to it.

    To this day, I find it interesting that of all the "hidden kingdoms" of the Marvel U, only Wakanda needs to be made like "every other civilization".

    I've never heard people begging for amphetamines in Attilan or organized crime in Olympia. It's only the African one that needs to reflect the worst parts of the nations around it.

    One wonders why....
    For all the cracks we see, what percentage of the readership would prefer living in Genosha or Latveria? Wakanda is far from perfect, but it beats pretty much every other fictional human nation by a mile.

  12. #8922
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beware Of Geek View Post
    Ah yes, the "crack in Wakanda" story so beloved by Panther fans that nobody EVER refers to it.

    To this day, I find it interesting that of all the "hidden kingdoms" of the Marvel U, only Wakanda needs to be made like "every other civilization".

    I've never heard people begging for amphetamines in Attilan or organized crime in Olympia. It's only the African one that needs to reflect the worst parts of the nations around it.

    One wonders why....
    World building! Making it feel like a real place! To make it relatable...

    Notice how that argument keeps getting brought up for why it's okay on Wakanda, yet in the MU no where else has been so blatantly obvious about it and to add further insult to injury, made it look in the most stereotypical way possible. Yet for Wakanda... This is deep cerebral work at play

  13. #8923
    Be Seeing You… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    For all the cracks we see, what percentage of the readership would prefer living in Genosha or Latveria? Wakanda is far from perfect, but it beats pretty much every other fictional human nation by a mile.
    Under Priest or Hickman, sure. But under Coates?

  14. #8924
    Fantastic Member LastManStanding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    The thing about art is it doesn't resonate the same with everyone.

    Bad guys kidnapping women in wakanda and then getting beat up sounds like regular comic action. It's weird how women being the target of crime specifically gets under y'all skin in that way but if they were stealing some random important objects instead of humans with the same exact context it would have never been mentioned again. I don't get it truly. The silent panel throwing a guy out the window during that scene was cool as hell to me. Even then it was so inconsequential relatively speaking again yall clinging to that moment is just weird man really weird tbh.

    CONFLICT
    How did Wakandan society fall so low? The explanation given by Coates based on his interview with the writer of Rise of the Black Panther was that the attacks of Dr. Doom, Namor and Thanos damaged the psyche of Wakandans.

    Except that:

    1. The insurgents that Dr. Doom assisted into power encountered civil disobedience from a large section of Wakanda. That does sound like something a broken people will do.

    2. After said insurgency was routed and Dr. Doom thwarted T’Challa went on a self-imposed exile to America. Shuri ran Wakanda in his absence and the country was more or less stable. Then when T’Challa returned to Wakanda he coordinated the reconfiguration of the nation’s financial stability and thereby the welfare of its citizens.

    3. After Namor’s attack Wakanda destroyed Atlantis and in quick secession stopped an alien invasion. Thanos eventually came to Wakanda but through other events he became a secret prisoner of Wakanda. Wakandans whether they knew it or not got their just due.

    4. After Thanos was broken out of prison the United Nations General Assembly sided with him in two ways. They allowed Thanos to set up base in Wakanda and they prevented a fugitive T’Challa through the efforts of SHIELD / Captain Rogers from taking back Wakanda. T’Challa eventually prevailed and restored his nation.

    T’Challa did his job of protecting Wakanda in the end which to me meant that the years of deconstruction of the character would be have reached the end of its cycle.

    Now with regards to the concept of a ‘punchy story’ or a story that does not have enough punching between bad guys and good guys, one would have to look at the nature of super hero comics. Comics come from dime fiction/ pulp fiction books/magazines from the 1860s to 1940s thereabouts; the pulp books were split into categories of adventure, western, aviation, mystery, scandal etc. So, if you were a writer for an aviation pulp book you would not shoehorn a western story into it.


    Superhero comics as a sub genre of comics are generally written with good vs evil characters in whatever shade of grey you want to put them; the villains are so insurmountable that it takes a super human force to stop their nefarious intentions. Coates’ villains are not insurmountable hence a simple punch would be enough to topple them. That is the reason for the delays in action scenes between the main protagonist and the main antagonist which gives the illusion that the story does not need those ‘punchy’ elements. Normally rising tension, plot twists, mind games etc would be used entertain the reader during those intervals where the main characters don’t ‘duke it out’ ala David Liss’ BP run but Coates did not use those techniques in his BP run. Some might not be troubled by the lack of ‘punchy’ elements but others will be.
    Last edited by LastManStanding; 10-23-2019 at 05:21 PM.

  15. #8925
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beware Of Geek View Post
    Under Priest or Hickman, sure. But under Coates?
    Hickmans era was really the only one you might wanna live somewhere else as Wakanda had a string of bad luck.

    Right now Wakanda is fine. Better than fine at the moment.

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