Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[terrancejameson]

Either version, never new it was a socially media thing.

Lmao ok that explains a lot. It doesn't change the fact that you expressed much of the same ideals of many of the black males that frequent this thread. I'm curious as to why most lean in this direction. I have my own suspicions, but I don't want to put words in anyone's mouths so I chose to do some research of my own. Thanks for helping.

[Cville]

Lmao ok that explains a lot. It doesn't change the fact that you expressed much of the same ideals of many of the black males that frequent this thread. I'm curious as to why most lean in this direction. I have my own suspicions, but I don't want to put words in anyone's mouths so I chose to do some research of my own. Thanks for helping.

And what ideals are those?

[terrancejameson]

And what ideals are those?

T'Challa cultivated a network - a damn army of black superpowers ready to defend Wakanda with nothing but his intellectual prowess. How doesn't that translate to big dick energy? Or is that solely reserved for brute strength portrayals and angry black man tropes?

This was my original question.

I wouldn't consider it. The scenes that as you say "big dick energy" that others are providing are adversarial in nature. Tchalla is fighting, intimidating, or embarrassing someone.

I classify your example as "positive uplifting" energy, but it slightly falls short because what does Thunderball bring to the table that a Wakandan scientist doesn't? I haven't read it in a long time, but I just remember him pressing a button.

Coates technically did pan Africanism if that just means black people from different countries are in one place, but the story wasn't very good imo.

This was your response. A few more scans were thrown in that fall in line with this type of thinking.

We've miscommunicated. This was your question.

"why is it that other minorities can do other stuff with a lil black swag and people say "big dick energy", but black men have to flex in a certain way or he's too soft?"

I'm looking for an example of other minorities doing what you've described so I can see if I have an answer.

For for your new question, the attributes I've described is my interpretation of "big dick energy", but if I stretched it I'd say having Monica in Shana in his palace at the same time(house of M). I think anything else I remember would fall into violence and intimidation.

Then you said this. Only one other person provided scans contrary to what you've personally expressed multiple times. Many agree wit you. My question why do you guys feel this way? Its interesting to me. I'm hoping to have a serious conversation on the subject amongst other black males. I am one.

[Cville]

This was my original question.

This was your response. A few more scans were thrown in that fall in line with this type of thinking.
[/B]
Then you said this. Only one other person provided scans contrary to what you've personally expressed multiple times. Many agree wit you. My question why do you guys feel this way? Its interesting to me. I'm hoping to have a serious conversation on the subject amongst other black males. I am one.

I would count the Kingpin scan as intimidation. I mean he's coming out the shadows issuing warnings like Batman. lol.

But we have to rewind the clock now that I know the phase you used is meant to be shorthand for having confidence which is weird to have that type of conversation in a comics thread when nearly every Marvel and DC title character would fall into the classification laid out in the article.

If you want to have a conversation about all the positive influences Tchalla and Wakanda have than I personally would find a different phase because it sounds misleading. I've been on this thread for two years and I can say we've talked about positive influences in BP comics. I just wouldnt classify them in the same category as being a badass. Which is what I thought we've been talking about the last few hors. lol.

[XJlock]

[nj06]

Shuri never once called him a slave to Wakanda. You made that up, so you need to unmake it. I agree there is no hidden meaning to the idea of him being a slave and doing the bidding of white masters all the while willingly taking the name of a white that wasn't forced upon him. His mind was colonized to believe that was his way of interacting with the great white world. You miss the message because it isn't in service to your narrative. Shuri called him a slave because he was one. He chose to revert back to his old ways that's why he mentions falling back into old habits. All of this happened AFTER HE AND T'CHALLA HAVE A PHILOSOPHICAL DEBATE ABOUT WHAT HIS ROLE IS AND THE IMPORTANCE OF HIS NAME. The chains are there because he chose to fall back on old habits. He made himself a slave to those habits and is responsible for his place at the time. Shuri is the black woman unwilling to coddle him and demands that he does better. T'Challa is the black man that understands the pride of being a black man a handle him with a slightly more delicate approach but it's clear BP had the moral high ground. Thunderball was beaten by his omd habits. That's reflective of the black community in America as a whole, but I digress. What have you been reading?

Agreed. This is how I always interpreted this scene. Despite Dr. Franklin's intelligence, his mind was still enslaved/colonized and Shuri was putting him on blast. I like her explanation of wielding power without discipline being slavery.

[terrancejameson]

I would count the Kingpin scan as intimidation. I mean he's coming out the shadows issuing warnings like Batman. lol.

But we have to rewind the clock now that I know the phase you used is meant to be shorthand for having confidence which is weird to have that type of conversation in a comics thread when nearly every Marvel and DC title character would fall into the classification laid out in the article.

If you want to have a conversation about all the positive influences Tchalla and Wakanda have than I personally would find a different phase because it sounds misleading. I've been on this thread for two years and I can say we've talked about positive influences in BP comics. I just wouldnt classify them in the same category as being a badass. Which is what I thought we've been talking about the last few hors. lol.

Badass for different reasons. That's what we've been discussing for the past few hours. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough. I love when T'Challa swaggers. He's not the average man so no average man can swagger the way he does. This T'Challa is reflective of movie T'Challa. We know that because Shuri is. T'Challa is a good man and it's hard for a good man to be king. The sad part is the more we delve into it the broader message becomes clearer. I've lurked here for quite some time. You might even say I have a passing familiarity with this place. While I came to love him through Storm, I cherish him as his own man. I champion him for everything he represents. It makes me sad to see him reduced to angry black man tropes and the noble bruiser devoid of any emotional maturity. When I read Coates' T'Challa i get the sense of a man that while may be contemptuous of his relationship to the world (a king that must think about country above all else and everything with it) I also see a man that wants to follow his heart and his mind.

Quite frankly, this emotionally stunted idea of a black man to engrossed with his ideas of masculinity and unwillingness to show some emotional depths is a really big problem. Let black men be vulnerable. Let black men cry. Let black give and receive love. Whether he's with Storm or not, if he's dependent upon his significant other to carry the emotional baggage of the relationship that's a problem. It's a huge problem. Black men need to do better. It's one if the reason I love Hollywood and everyone else on Queen Sugar. His conversation with Violet directly informs the point I'm making.

It really reminds me of the gripes about MCU T'Challa and his reaction/hesitancy at the thought of killing his cousin and the man his father left in America. It really sounds like black manhood and emotional maturity doesn't quite go together. It's sad because human emotion is vital to the human experience. Mass media already dehumanizes us. It's a whole different subject when we dehumanize ourselves and we don't even realize it. Why are anger and violence the only acceptable forms of masculinity for black men? Doesn't this all sound too familiar to the role Thunderball actually plays in the story? I don't wanna get too preachy tho.

[Cville]

I recommend that you read all the runs. Emotional content is in all of them. He even crys in Priest a couple of times. But I think you're missing the other side of the emotional coin. Where is the laughter and happiness with family that we see in the movie in the Coates run? Because it there in Hudlin along with love and tragedy. Coates only has one theme depression and pessimism. I think you should be equally outraged that he doesn't let Tchalla smile either.

[terrancejameson]

I recommend that you read all the runs. Emotional content is in all of them. He even crys in Priest a couple of times. But I think you're missing the other side of the emotional coin. Where is the laughter and happiness with family that we see in the movie in the Coates run? Because it there in Hudlin along with love and tragedy. Coates only has one theme depression and pessimism. I think you should be equally outraged that he doesn't let Tchalla smile either.

You sure this is the hill you’re willing to die on? I can pull up three scans right now where he appears to be smiling alongside Ororo. That don’t count, though, right?

[Huntsman Spider]

For what it's worth, this has been a very fascinating, enlightening discussion here today, and I am very much here for it, wherever it leads.

[Cville]

You sure this is the hill you’re willing to die on? I can pull up three scans right now where he appears to be smiling alongside Ororo. That don’t count, though, right?

If all the scans are with Storm, isn't that an example of her carrying his emotional baggage or at least creating a sort of co-dependency?

[terrancejameson]

Agreed. This is how I always interpreted this scene. Despite Dr. Franklin's intelligence, his mind was still enslaved/colonized and Shuri was putting him on blast. I like her explanation of wielding power without discipline being slavery.

I’d say that makes us a pretty slim minority. That’s the beautiful thing about art, everyone pulls their own meanings from it. It’s amazing. Sometimes we push each other to see different aspect. I really enjoy this community of shared observers. It’s just so crazy that Coates drilled the note specifically in multiple ways so much so that his subtlety is a gut punch. His T’Challa is mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally and intellectually superior to everyone around him. He may be obnoxious at times, but he doesn’t mean to be. He’s a good man and it hard for a good man to be king.

[terrancejameson]

For what it's worth, this has been a very fascinating, enlightening discussion here today, and I am very much here for it, wherever it leads.

Honestly, I don’t wanna go too far off the deep end, but it makes me wanna cry sometimes. Truly. The push for to T’Challa to be this machine devoid of human emotion is plain bullshit. Excuse my language, but it is. He’s a man. A black man, a black fuckin king worthy of displaying human emotion without being thought of as less than. He ain’t no fuckin animal even though he can move like his namesake. This attitude or idea that he should have taken care of Killmonger without a second thought is asinine. As a human being he saw the boy that his father left in America fully grown into this monster of their own making. It’s easy to succumb mainstream brainwashing and see another black man as an automatic threat, but it takes a greater to extend his hand in love and acceptance.

This trash ass crap music that glorifies killing that person that looks just like you, talks just like you, dresses just like you, moves just like you is a target and it’s open season. Sometimes I really have to sit back and wonder what’s really up? Why are black men so against showing the next black man some love? Could it be because most don’t have the emotionally maturity to understand that they’re killing themselves by singling themselves out in the crowd? What was Nipsey Hussle saying? Why was his message something that needed to be stopped? What are we really doing, black men?

[terrancejameson]

If all the scans are with Storm, isn't that an example of her carrying his emotional baggage or at least creating a sort of co-dependency?

What if they both acknowledge that codependency for what it is? What if they accept one another for who they are? What if they accept that their responsibility to the world is a fundamental part of their being just as much as their love for one another cannot be removed from their hearts? What if for every reason their life together tells them it just won’t work, yet they have that one singular feeling of not giving a flying ****? Who is telling black men who they can and can’t love? Are we gonna play like black men don’t regularly support Future as he tries to play another black man Russel Wilson for stepping up to the plate? It takes a lot for black Poole to actually be real with themselves. Jonelle Monae apologized for saying black people should register to vote at Popeyes. The collective ain’t ready for this work. If any black person should be self aware and willing to check themselves at the door it should be the black king of the most technologically advanced country on planet earth. The richest comic book hero in existence. It must be him.

[MindofShadow]

You sure this is the hill you’re willing to die on? I can pull up three scans right now where he appears to be smiling alongside Ororo. That don’t count, though, right?

Depends on the context. Becuse the couple I remember off the top of my head sends T'challa straight to depression ville rather quickly. He smiles but its followed or immediately preceded by being a gigantic sad worry wort.


And I swear, did everyone forget about poor Monica?