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  1. #10426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Psychological shackle's are more powerful then any physical chains could ever Hope to achieve
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Quoting you for undeniable truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Faux diversity reigns over there so I'm not suprised.

    The one good thing that's come out of Coates messing up the Black Panther solo, ie the fact that I'm now catching up with other books such as Miles Morales:Spiderman, MoonGirl & Devil Dinosaur and the recently concluded Iron Heart solo.

    I also decided to give the Nnedi Okorafor Shuri solo a read and found it enjoyable.

    So yeah, as long as there're other books to check out, it's not too bad.
    Thanks, and yeah, as I've grown older and more aware, the hypocrisy of a franchise that trades on themes of bigotry, persecution, and marginalization of various minority groups while it centers its story primarily around characters from the American majority demographic has become more grating.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #10427
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    yes. i know.

    it was BS then and it's BS now.

    which is why i can't write the book. I'd burn all that down.


    frankly it's one if the dumbest excuses to try and get around calling the character black. But it was all the ammo done needed
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 12-08-2019 at 08:57 PM.

  3. #10428
    Amazing Member RDMXV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    If you knew anything about the hostile environments some of these Africans came from rife with daily adversity and uncertainty, you'd have some awareness as to why some of these African immigrants you've predictably called out, look askance at some of their African-American cousins who after many years after slavery ended, still remain ignorant as to their own innate strengths and capacity to overcome the very real adversity they face living in a construct designed to slow anyone without full knowledge of self, excelling to the fullest.
    I don't care if you read the book or not. I don't care about your anecdotal experience, where you're from, or where you've lived. I don't care if you hate coates. I don't even care that you have brought up rape camps again now beating that thoroughly beaten dead horse into saw dust.

    But saying i'm maligning Africans by describing literally the same bull that's in this paragraph is the dumbest sh*t I ever seen on this forum. "Many years after slavery ended, still remain ignorant as to their own innate strengths and capacity to overcome the very real adversity they face living in a construct designed to slow anyone without full knowledge of self"

    Black men in America are the number 1 prison population on earth, The FBI via COINTELPRO has destroyed every genuine organization and black leader we have had since the 60's, go look up how many protesters from ferguson have been killed for speaking up against police brutality publicly, Crack was put in our communities by our own president via the CIA, Redlining forced people who worked their way out of the slums right back in it with nothing to show for it, Banks have openly preyed on black people to enrich themselves because we have no protections and this list goes on forever.

    African immigrants, like YOU, talk about this sh*t like it's the result of a personality flaw. Like it's not the same enemy that has huge portions of wherever dark skin people are still reeling if not still up under colonization. Imagine telling Haitians right now the island is in the state it's in because they're ignorant instead of the IMF and Western Powers conspiring against them. You'd get spit on. This is exactly why I liked Coates latest issue so much (comes full circle I know yall like that hehe) . It was something I thought everybody would agree with honestly "Don't think you can't be fooled, even the best of us can, so be diligent against the bullsh*t".

    This is the last reply you'll get from me I come on here to talk about the book and what the author is trying to convey. The complain a thon stuff from people who don't even read it is boring to me and I would have ignored this if not for the blatant foolishness.
    Last edited by RDMXV; 12-09-2019 at 05:54 AM. Reason: all edits are for clarity

  4. #10429
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    it's basically the only thing from Reggie's run that I didn't like. I've never liked it. Africa is insanely huge. The odds of these two people crossing paths as teenagers? Well, that's a hard pass for me. They've got pretty much nothing in common beyond being Marvel's most prominent black heroes.


    Also, it diminished both of them for the reasons i said. It's like pairing up batman with wonder woman. it worked in the JLU cartoon because, in that universe, there was no solo adventure series for either of them. But Diana needs her own everything, as does Bruce as does T'Challa as does Ororo.

    Folding them together that way doesn't enhance anything. It cuts them both in half, story-wise. Now that it's canon, I'll buy her as an ex, but that's the end of it. Old friends who tried it on and failed. She's got some deeper insight into him than most (and he does her as well) but, romance?

    nope. hard pass.

    give both of them their own paramours from their own stories.

    IMO
    Well, I'm glad you qualified your assessment as being purely your opinion which you are of course fully entitled to make known but here's the thing.

    If T'Challa's walk about as a youth seeking himself through the challenges of traversing the African continent unaided by wealth or the trappings of royalty, passed through Kenya during his travels, why would it be so improbable for him to have encountered Ororo at some point during his quest of self discovery?

    The African continent is indeed quite large when considered in its entirety but what does matter to someone with the power of flight?

    Reginald Hudlin's take on Ororo and T'Challa getting together as adults, was the logical follow through to the short story that Chris Claremont wrote in the 1980's and as such fully in continuity which is what one would expect from a writer who refused to have these two characters boxed into the inexpicable and highly illogical space of non-interaction that Claremont left them in at the end of their aforementioned previous meeting as teenagers.

    Hudlin much like Priest before him, saw the potential in revisiting Claremont's tale and building upon it in away that actually played into the premise of Professor Xavier's dream of peace and cooperation between humans and mutants and in so doing, Reginald Hudlin showed himself to be an astute student of the overarching themes that have ever been the foundation of Marvel's shared universe.

    For the first time ever in mainstream American comic books, we had a Black power couple whose coming together actually made sense with a ton of in universe story potential that would, could and should have been a creative goldmine paying positive dividends for both characters in the long run but alas, some apparently, felt uncomfortable with the idea of Ororo and T'Challa's relationship in much the same way that positively loving relationships between Black men and women seem to be threatening to some folks in the real world.

    There are a lot of readers who appreciated Ororo and T'Challa's being in a solid relationship and it goes without saying that within a fictional world where humans, mutants, Inhumans, extra-terrestrial, demi-gods, gods, vampires and all manner of sentient life forms co-exist, a black man and black woman come together in a loving relationship shouldn't be something impossible to countenance.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

    Mr MajestiK took a short hiatus and the Chaos Bringer was reborn.

  5. #10430
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    I don't care if you read the book or not. I don't care about your anecdotal experience, where you're from, or where you've lived. I don't care if you hate coates. I don't even care that you have brought up rape camps again now beating that thoroughly beaten dead horse into saw dust.

    But saying i'm maligning Africans by describing literally the same bull that's in this paragraph is the dumbest sh*t I ever seen on this forum. "Many years after slavery ended, still remain ignorant as to their own innate strengths and capacity to overcome the very real adversity they face living in a construct designed to slow anyone without full knowledge of self"

    Black men in America are the number 1 prison population on earth, The FBI via COINTELPRO has destroyed every genuine organization and black leader we have had since the 60's, go look up how many protesters from ferguson have been killed for speaking up against police brutality publicly, Crack was put in our communities by our own president via the CIA, Redlining forced people who worked their way out of the slums right back in it with nothing to show for it, Banks have openly preyed on black people to enrich themselves because we have no protections and this list goes on forever.

    African immigrants like YOU talk about this sh*t like it's the result of a personality flaw. Like it's not the same enemy that has huge portions of wherever dark skin people are still reeling if not still up under colonization. Imagine telling Haitians right now the island is in the state it's in because they're ignorant instead of the IMF and Western Powers conspiring against them. You'd get spit on. This is exactly why I liked Coates latest issue so much (comes full circle I know yall like that hehe) . It was something I thought everybody would agree with honestly "Don't think you can't be fooled, even the best of us can, so be diligent against the bullsh*t".

    This is the last reply you'll get from me I come on here to talk about the book and it what the author is trying to convey. The complain a thon stuff is boring to me and I would have ignored this if not for the blatant foolishness.
    Bruv, I was born in the UK to Nigerian parents which makes me a British National and not an immigrant so get your facts right as opposed to getting upset because someone has countered your febrile arguments with an alternative viewpoint that isn't mired in self pity, mental bondage and misplaced animosity.

    As you say, you're ostensibly here to discuss the book but if as you did, you decide to take a detour into highlighting the writers particular biases, dont he suprised at getting pulled up and addressed for deploying blatant generalisations.

    Coates has done more than any writer in history post Jonathan Maberry, to destroy the overall premise of the BP mythos and to do this, he's had to employ massive distortions and deliberately self serving retcons to facilitate his meandering storylines.

    However, I do understand the appeal that this writers retrograde approach to writing T'Challa would have to someone more attuned to the stereotypical image of Africans as opposed to the fact that for the most part, a lot of Africans from the Motherland are incredibly driven people who refuse to be defined or boxed in by other peoples low expectations and projections.

    The fact that two Jewish men were able to envision a technologically advanced society wholly developed by Africans, and deploy same in 1966 smack dab in the middle of the Civil Rights turmoil at the time, only to have an African-American writer in the 21st century, dragging all of Lee and Kirby's work into the proverbial gutter is nothing more than an embarrassment of the most perverse kind.

    But hey, if that's what floats some peoples boats......

    The sooner is regressive negative faux "woke" self is off the book, the better.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

    Mr MajestiK took a short hiatus and the Chaos Bringer was reborn.

  6. #10431
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I think the "all races' bit is why she has white hair, blue eyes, and (at least early on) vaguely Asian features.
    The vaguely asian features are a holdover from the days when she was intended to be a cat-person, essentially a mutant Eartha Kitt Catwoman. She was changed into being a weather-controller before the comic went live, but certain details of her original design remained for at least a while. Eartha Kitt being part Cherokee, part white, and part black.

    Last edited by MichaelC; 12-09-2019 at 05:26 AM.

  7. #10432
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    The vaguely asian features are a holdover from the days when she was intended to be a cat-person, essentially a mutant Eartha Kitt Catwoman. She was changed into being a weather-controller before the comic went live, but certain details of her original design remained for at least a while. Eartha Kitt being part Cherokee, part white, and part black.

    And I thought Wolverine originally being intended to be a mutated wolverine was weird.

  8. #10433
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    it's basically the only thing from Reggie's run that I didn't like. I've never liked it. Africa is insanely huge. The odds of these two people crossing paths as teenagers? Well, that's a hard pass for me. They've got pretty much nothing in common beyond being Marvel's most prominent black heroes.


    Also, it diminished both of them for the reasons i said. It's like pairing up batman with wonder woman. it worked in the JLU cartoon because, in that universe, there was no solo adventure series for either of them. But Diana needs her own everything, as does Bruce as does T'Challa as does Ororo.

    Folding them together that way doesn't enhance anything. It cuts them both in half, story-wise. Now that it's canon, I'll buy her as an ex, but that's the end of it. Old friends who tried it on and failed. She's got some deeper insight into him than most (and he does her as well) but, romance?

    nope. hard pass.

    give both of them their own paramours from their own stories.

    IMO
    I think the only problem was Hudlin deciding to have them married (and I say that as a person that enjoyed the marriage and was rooting for it on a personal level at least).

    Claremont and Priest potrayed them more as star crossed lovers. I think the idea was that they were the loves of each others lived, but that they were from 2 different worlds. Having them as love interests is one thing, but marriage ended up really being a problem once one or both sides decided they might want to take the character in a different direction. There's no way to maneuver around that without things getting really really ugly.

    Again, I liked the marriage and was rooting for it personally.... but in hindsight I think it was always going to end badly.

  9. #10434
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Well, I'm glad you qualified your assessment as being purely your opinion which you are of course fully entitled to make known but here's the thing.

    If T'Challa's walk about as a youth seeking himself through the challenges of traversing the African continent unaided by wealth or the trappings of royalty, passed through Kenya during his travels, why would it be so improbable for him to have encountered Ororo at some point during his quest of self discovery?

    The African continent is indeed quite large when considered in its entirety but what does matter to someone with the power of flight?

    Reginald Hudlin's take on Ororo and T'Challa getting together as adults, was the logical follow through to the short story that Chris Claremont wrote in the 1980's and as such fully in continuity which is what one would expect from a writer who refused to have these two characters boxed into the inexpicable and highly illogical space of non-interaction that Claremont left them in at the end of their aforementioned previous meeting as teenagers.

    Hudlin much like Priest before him, saw the potential in revisiting Claremont's tale and building upon it in away that actually played into the premise of Professor Xavier's dream of peace and cooperation between humans and mutants and in so doing, Reginald Hudlin showed himself to be an astute student of the overarching themes that have ever been the foundation of Marvel's shared universe.

    For the first time ever in mainstream American comic books, we had a Black power couple whose coming together actually made sense with a ton of in universe story potential that would, could and should have been a creative goldmine paying positive dividends for both characters in the long run but alas, some apparently, felt uncomfortable with the idea of Ororo and T'Challa's relationship in much the same way that positively loving relationships between Black men and women seem to be threatening to some folks in the real world.

    There are a lot of readers who appreciated Ororo and T'Challa's being in a solid relationship and it goes without saying that within a fictional world where humans, mutants, Inhumans, extra-terrestrial, demi-gods, gods, vampires and all manner of sentient life forms co-exist, a black man and black woman come together in a loving relationship shouldn't be something impossible to countenance.
    of course it's my opinion. this is fiction. there are no facts and no opinion about the stories is right or wrong. that's how art works.

    for me, it's implausible and, frankly, a little racist, for T'Challa to meet Storm, fall in love with her and ultimately marry her for the reasons I've outlined. It has nothing to do with two black people being together in a loving relationship.

    Quite the opposite. With Storm and T'Challa in their own solo books, you get the opportunity to DOUBLE (at least) the number of non-white characters on the field AND create lovers for both to produce not ONE pair of black lovers but a minimum of two.

    As I said, no one's giving me a Storm solo for the reasons I outlined and the odds of me getting my hands on T'Challa's story in the comics are almost equally dire. As I also said, the star-crossed lovers and the failed marriage are canon now and we're stuck with them (until and unless Marvel ever does a line-wide reboot) so, on the off chance I EVER got to write either of them, I would simply cement that they will never reunite in that way and will ways be great and very close friends.

    But, yeah. I don't want Superman or Batman marrying Wonder Woman for exactly the same reasons. Heroes need to be unique, with their own rogues' galleries, their own battlefields and their own spiritual journeys or there's no point in having them.
    Last edited by Redjack; 12-09-2019 at 10:15 AM.

  10. #10435
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    I don't care if you read the book or not. I don't care about your anecdotal experience, where you're from, or where you've lived. I don't care if you hate coates. I don't even care that you have brought up rape camps again now beating that thoroughly beaten dead horse into saw dust.

    But saying i'm maligning Africans by describing literally the same bull that's in this paragraph is the dumbest sh*t I ever seen on this forum. "Many years after slavery ended, still remain ignorant as to their own innate strengths and capacity to overcome the very real adversity they face living in a construct designed to slow anyone without full knowledge of self"

    Black men in America are the number 1 prison population on earth, The FBI via COINTELPRO has destroyed every genuine organization and black leader we have had since the 60's, go look up how many protesters from ferguson have been killed for speaking up against police brutality publicly, Crack was put in our communities by our own president via the CIA, Redlining forced people who worked their way out of the slums right back in it with nothing to show for it, Banks have openly preyed on black people to enrich themselves because we have no protections and this list goes on forever.

    African immigrants, like YOU, talk about this sh*t like it's the result of a personality flaw. Like it's not the same enemy that has huge portions of wherever dark skin people are still reeling if not still up under colonization. Imagine telling Haitians right now the island is in the state it's in because they're ignorant instead of the IMF and Western Powers conspiring against them. You'd get spit on. This is exactly why I liked Coates latest issue so much (comes full circle I know yall like that hehe) . It was something I thought everybody would agree with honestly "Don't think you can't be fooled, even the best of us can, so be diligent against the bullsh*t".

    This is the last reply you'll get from me I come on here to talk about the book and what the author is trying to convey. The complain a thon stuff from people who don't even read it is boring to me and I would have ignored this if not for the blatant foolishness.
    I think your taking it out of context the full scope of what Maj was saying. He also didn't all ALL at of their African American cousins. He said some. Which is a big difference. He also goes on to reference the Black panther revolution Tulsa massacre, aka the destruction of Black Wall Street, Fred Hampton and the civil rights movement. He isn't saying that every black person is ignorant of their own strength.

    But getting to the rest of your post since I'm not going to dive into all that as this is the BP thread.

    The problem with the issue isn't that Coates is trying to go with the "Don't think you can't be fooled" but, like the entirety of his run, everything he is trying to push does not work in the Black Panther mythos you mention the rape camps and "beating the dead horse into sawdust" well you and others may see it as a one and done deal but for others stuff like that never stopped. It wasn't just oh there's a small camp on the outskirts of Wakanda, and jne guy was doing it that T'Challa or even the DM found. No they were giant ass rape treehouses, which is another thing in that image but a huge operation that apparently was able to run without issue abd T'Challa never saw it. And when it was finally brought up by the Royal family what do we get? Shuri telling two women, a teenage and an elderly woman, you should of accepted your fate and been raped and killed do the golden city can stand? Bullisht T'Challa, in Character would of checked Shuri for that, Shuri would NEVER say that to her own people.

    And that isht just continued throughout the arcs. Wakanda was created to be an anticolonizer message for Africa. What do we get? Wakanda id no different then the rest of the world but are also hypocrites for doing the same thing.

    Jumping to S3. Same issues. In order to believe the story Coates had to first dumb T'Challa down to ridiculous levels. Like reduce his IQ by 40%. Not even looking at continuity, but T'Challas personality and Character traits, he would of been suspicious by the get go, ESPECIALLY if he felt an unexplainable sadness.

    Then since we know T'Challa is always prepared and two steps ahead, he leaves nothing to chance. The second he felt uneasy he would investigate. Doubly so when Achebe told him about the betrayal, coupled with his unease? Any normal person would start putting pieces together or investigating. You mean to tell me the shrewdest man alive ignores all that? For what? Because it's the Wakanda dream made reality? T'Challa has had zero issues calling out isht Wakanda has done. Dude worshipped his father and still called out the isht he did and corrected it. But now all of a sudden he doesn't want to??

    Also going back to Achebe, this point defines how lazy Coates was writing this explanation. He has T'Challa state he doesn't believe Achebe because lack of proof, intrigue of the court, and 616 Achebe is a madman, YET he believes N'Jadaka, who 616 version is a had threaten the throne and his people on multiple occasions and actually took the throne at one point, because...?? This would of made more sense if this Character was named emperor T'Chaka, or empress Shuri, people who his version he would know would not do that.

    Now finally we go to Storm comment about him being unable to see it because he grew up privileged. First off he didn't have a cushion life as he was forced to grow up fast, he also took a walkabout without his wealth, and "privilege" to experience the world and to survive on his own. He has also liberated a entire planet injected with slavery, called out the inhumans for slavery, fought the KKK, and personally experienced racism with he was attacked by white people. So where is this whole nonsense about not being able to see it?

    Again, this whole thing does not work with the BP mythos. And we have seen it doesn't given the massive amounts of retcons and ignoring continuity and character traits to try and fit this agenda in the story.

    So if you like it fine that's your deal. But some of us here aren't buying his explanation (which is complete bullisht, and if he actually out some effort into it, could of come up with a believable way that T'Challa could of been fooled, it's actually not hard) because it's forced and lazy

  11. #10436
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    of course it's my opinion. this is fiction. there are no facts and no opinion about the stories is right or wrong. that's how art works.

    for me, it's implausible and, frankly, a little racist, for T'Challa to meet Storm, fall in love with her and ultimately marry her for the reasons I've outlined. It has nothing to do with two black people being together in a loving relationship.

    White the opposite. With sStorm and T'Challa in their own solo books, you get the opportunity to DOUBLE (at least) the number of non-white characters on the field AND create lovers for both to produce not ONE pair of black lovers but a minimum of two.

    As I said, no one's giving me a Storm solo for the reasons I outlined and the odds of me getting my hands on T'Challa's story in the comics are almost equally dire. As I also said, the star-crossed lovers and the failed marriage are canon now and we're stuck with them (until and unless Marvel ever does a line-wide reboot) so, on the off chance I EVER got to write either of them, I would simply cement that they will never reunite in that way and will ways be great and very close friends.

    But, yeah. I don't want Superman or Batman marrying Wonder Woman for exactly the same reasons. Heroes need to be unique, with their own rogues' galleries, their own battlefields and their own spiritual journeys or there's no point in having them.
    This is interesting. Are you saying it's racists because you think the reason Claremont had then meet even is because they are both Black and African? Or that it felt like it was an attempt at tying in another franchise that just didn't seem believable?

    You also have the opinion that you don't like the Batman/Superman, Wonder woman pairing either, is that due to you don't like superheroes dating that are of their own franchises?

    Finally, is it so set in stone that you won't be able to do a Storm or BP Solo? Especially given how much success you had with BP quest? I'm not at all familiar with how the line of work goes in terms of a pitch being passed but is it really that final? Once Coates leaves can't you , in Theory make another pitch to Marvel?

  12. #10437
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    This is interesting. Are you saying it's racists because you think the reason Claremont had then meet even is because they are both Black and African? Or that it felt like it was an attempt at tying in another franchise that just didn't seem believable?
    I think, in the time frame it was introduced, yes, unconscious racism is what put T'Challa and storm in a love story. They were and remain Marvel's biggest, most recognized black characters and, rather than do the work of giving either of them real supporting characters including love interests, the idea became to put the black folks together. Hard pass on that for me.

    You also have the opinion that you don't like the Batman/Superman, Wonder woman pairing either, is that due to you don't like superheroes dating that are of their own franchises?
    I think it's lazy, basically. And in the case of Batman/Wonder Woman (comics version, not Timm-verse) ignores both their characters. Plus all the other story-making stuff i said earlier.

    Finally, is it so set in stone that you won't be able to do a Storm or BP Solo? Especially given how much success you had with BP quest? I'm not at all familiar with how the line of work goes in terms of a pitch being passed but is it really that final? Once Coates leaves can't you , in Theory make another pitch to Marvel?
    I mean, nothing is ever set in stone but i don't see Marvel ever requesting a pitch from me on either of those titles or accepting the stories i want to tell about them if they did request.

    No big. Plenty of other folks to write about.
    Last edited by Redjack; 12-09-2019 at 10:35 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #10438
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I think your taking it out of context the full scope of what Maj was saying. He also didn't all ALL at of their African American cousins. He said some. Which is a big difference. He also goes on to reference the Black panther revolution Tulsa massacre, aka the destruction of Black Wall Street, Fred Hampton and the civil rights movement. He isn't saying that every black person is ignorant of their own strength.

    But getting to the rest of your post since I'm not going to dive into all that as this is the BP thread.

    The problem with the issue isn't that Coates is trying to go with the "Don't think you can't be fooled" but, like the entirety of his run, everything he is trying to push does not work in the Black Panther mythos you mention the rape camps and "beating the dead horse into sawdust" well you and others may see it as a one and done deal but for others stuff like that never stopped. It wasn't just oh there's a small camp on the outskirts of Wakanda, and jne guy was doing it that T'Challa or even the DM found. No they were giant ass rape treehouses, which is another thing in that image but a huge operation that apparently was able to run without issue abd T'Challa never saw it. And when it was finally brought up by the Royal family what do we get? Shuri telling two women, a teenage and an elderly woman, you should of accepted your fate and been raped and killed do the golden city can stand? Bullisht T'Challa, in Character would of checked Shuri for that, Shuri would NEVER say that to her own people.

    And that isht just continued throughout the arcs. Wakanda was created to be an anticolonizer message for Africa. What do we get? Wakanda id no different then the rest of the world but are also hypocrites for doing the same thing.

    Jumping to S3. Same issues. In order to believe the story Coates had to first dumb T'Challa down to ridiculous levels. Like reduce his IQ by 40%. Not even looking at continuity, but T'Challas personality and Character traits, he would of been suspicious by the get go, ESPECIALLY if he felt an unexplainable sadness.

    Then since we know T'Challa is always prepared and two steps ahead, he leaves nothing to chance. The second he felt uneasy he would investigate. Doubly so when Achebe told him about the betrayal, coupled with his unease? Any normal person would start putting pieces together or investigating. You mean to tell me the shrewdest man alive ignores all that? For what? Because it's the Wakanda dream made reality? T'Challa has had zero issues calling out isht Wakanda has done. Dude worshipped his father and still called out the isht he did and corrected it. But now all of a sudden he doesn't want to??

    Also going back to Achebe, this point defines how lazy Coates was writing this explanation. He has T'Challa state he doesn't believe Achebe because lack of proof, intrigue of the court, and 616 Achebe is a madman, YET he believes N'Jadaka, who 616 version is a had threaten the throne and his people on multiple occasions and actually took the throne at one point, because...?? This would of made more sense if this Character was named emperor T'Chaka, or empress Shuri, people who his version he would know would not do that.

    Now finally we go to Storm comment about him being unable to see it because he grew up privileged. First off he didn't have a cushion life as he was forced to grow up fast, he also took a walkabout without his wealth, and "privilege" to experience the world and to survive on his own. He has also liberated a entire planet injected with slavery, called out the inhumans for slavery, fought the KKK, and personally experienced racism with he was attacked by white people. So where is this whole nonsense about not being able to see it?

    Again, this whole thing does not work with the BP mythos. And we have seen it doesn't given the massive amounts of retcons and ignoring continuity and character traits to try and fit this agenda in the story.

    So if you like it fine that's your deal. But some of us here aren't buying his explanation (which is complete bullisht, and if he actually out some effort into it, could of come up with a believable way that T'Challa could of been fooled, it's actually not hard) because it's forced and lazy
    Mad props to you Brother Ezyo for clearly understanding what I was saying.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

    Mr MajestiK took a short hiatus and the Chaos Bringer was reborn.

  14. #10439
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    I think, in the time frame it was introduced, yes, unconscious racism is what put T'Challa and storm in a love story. They were and remain Marvel's biggest, most recognized black characters and, rather than do the work of giving either of them real supporting characters including love interests, the idea became to put the black folks together. Hard pass on that for me.
    I find the suggestion that "racism" unconscious or otherwise, having anything to do with introducing a love story between Ororo and T'Challa by Chris Claremont back in the early 80's rather odd to be quite frank.

    Claremont told a plausible story which for all intents and purposes, was quite unusual for that time especially as stories of that nature, were not really within the wheel house of many of Marvel's writers outside of Don McGregor back then.

    What remained implausible as far as that story went, was the manner in which Claremont had Ororo and T'Challa inexplicably walking away from each other as adults.

    That never made sense to me at at all but I suppose as T'Challa did not have an ongoing book at the time and was in no way affiliated to the X-Men, pursuing that particular storyline wasn't something Claremont could further back then.

    Priest and Hudlin picked up from where Claremont left off, and did really good work in bringing them back together again in a manner that was quite believable and in line with the fantasy setting within which much of Marvel's over arching story continuity is explored and for a time, it was really refreshing to see both characters going on adventures together both before and after their having gotten married.

    As far as supporting characters forvOroro and T'Challa was concerned, Hudlin did die diligence as regards helping Ororo to reconnect with her African-American relatives which was something none of the X-writers saw as being necessary or of importance in relation to developing a meaningful history for Ororo outside of the core X-aegis.

    He also did the same for T'Challa with the introduction of Shuri as his younger sister which was a pretty bold and innovative idea that led to an expansion of the BP mythos in much the same way as Priest's introduction of the White Wolf as T'Challa's older adoptive brother.

    I dont see Claremont, Priest or Hudlin's writing Ororo and T'Challa having a relationship as being "racist" in the slightest and actually remain grateful to all three including Dwayne McDuffie, who had the Royal Couple becoming part of the Fantastic Four whilst Reed and Sue went on their second honeymoon.

    That was some fun reading.

    Now we just have Wakandan rape camps.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

    Mr MajestiK took a short hiatus and the Chaos Bringer was reborn.

  15. #10440
    Incredible Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Black Panther #18 14,727

    BP: AoW #3 21,347

    A relaunch is definitely coming

    https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-11.html

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