Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[XJlock]

[MindofShadow]

wow this doesn't happen often, what is the source of this? Issue? volume? i've never seen that scan before?

Is this an alternate reality?

[butterflykyss]

Traditional Wakandan's are Wakandan's first, second, and third .

They have their tiny area and their special meteor and just want everyone else to leave them alone. They don't conquer. They don't bother anyone as long as you don't bother them.


I mean, hell, think about it... the first "outsiders" to try and take their special rock were probably African's lol. Just by pure proximity.

This is my philosophy on life which is honestly why I dont see the Wakandans world view as a bad one. If you have power and the resources needed to operate in such a fashion I say more power to you. The problem becomes if you need allies to fight against a threat that may have more fire power than your own. However when you open you borders you potentially allow for people to come in who may want to take that power for themselves.

And yes that is fair point as well. If the first "outsiders" were fellow Africans who tried to take from them then as the head of state I would probably ban all outsiders too. the first priority of any head of state should be to protect those within their borders.

[KingNomarch]

wow this doesn't happen often, what is the source of this? Issue? volume? i've never seen that scan before?

Is this an alternate reality?

Contest of Champions vol2 #3

[Vibranium Weave]

If anyone is interested......

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...rowed-choices/

[MindofShadow]

The problem becomes if you need allies to fight against a threat that may have more fire power than your own.

It is a warrior nation that also has the best weapon and tech anyone as seen. They never worried about that. To Wakandans, they will either out fight you (warrior) or out fire power you (tech).

[Ororo101]

well I think a big part of how nehzno was treated would indicate some wakandans dont like mutants. also it doesn't say xmen it says "namor was a mutant under a mutant flag" and that it used to be a "utopia" but that is past tense. it would seem that it was talking to all mutants. however none of this matters as this has all been resolved.

Very this.

[Ororo101]

It is a warrior nation that also has the best weapon and tech anyone as seen. They never worried about that. To Wakandans, they will either out fight you (warrior) or out fire power you (tech).

I can see your point here and in many ways I can agree. But if Wakandans are Wakandan first then I think it’s a bit distasteful for them to not realize that they are also Africans, second and Black People third. Isolationism may have kept them safe and hidden from the world and it’s horrors, but while they advanced and used their Vibranium privilege(yes it is privilege, they didn’t earn it, they were just lucky enough to be born on that rock as you said) to further their own society, everyone else who looked like them was being enslaved, tortured, and demonized the world over. So at what point does self preservation just become self involvement? And beyond that a Nation-State with deeply engrained cultural xenophobia?

How would that look in the real world? Would we as non-Wakandan born. Black people support really a country like that? That had the power to aid so much suffering and chose not to? Genuine questions that I ask myself as a fan of the BP franchise and I think others should as well. The movie did a great job making Killmonger a sympathetic villain for this very reason.

[XPac]

I can see your point here and in many ways I can agree. But if Wakandans are Wakandan first then I think it’s a bit distasteful for them to not realize that they are also Africans, second and Black People third. Isolationism may have kept them safe and hidden from the world and it’s horrors, but while they advanced and used their Vibranium privilege(yes it is privilege, they didn’t earn it, they were just lucky enough to be born on that rock as you said) to further their own society, everyone else who looked like them was being enslaved, tortured, and demonized the world over. So at what point does self preservation just become self involvement? And beyond that a Nation-State with deeply engrained cultural xenophobia?

How would that look in the real world? Would we as non-Wakandan born. Black people support really a country like that? That had the power to aid so much suffering and chose not to? Genuine questions that I ask myself as a fan of the BP franchise and I think others should as well. The movie did a great job making Killmonger a sympathetic villain for this very reason.

The movie tackles this issue pretty well. That's how we get Killmongers. Not that Killmonger was right ... but he had a point.

I'm somewhat surprised there aren't more people in the MU a little resentful of Wakanda not doing more, the way they were with Blue Marvel.

[XJlock]

[Vibranium Weave]

I can see your point here and in many ways I can agree. But if Wakandans are Wakandan first then I think itÂ’s a bit distasteful for them to not realize that they are also Africans, second and Black People third. Isolationism may have kept them safe and hidden from the world and itÂ’s horrors, but while they advanced and used their Vibranium privilege(yes it is privilege, they didnÂ’t earn it, they were just lucky enough to be born on that rock as you said) to further their own society, everyone else who looked like them was being enslaved, tortured, and demonized the world over. So at what point does self preservation just become self involvement? And beyond that a Nation-State with deeply engrained cultural xenophobia?

How would that look in the real world? Would we as non-Wakandan born. Black people support really a country like that? That had the power to aid so much suffering and chose not to? Genuine questions that I ask myself as a fan of the BP franchise and I think others should as well. The movie did a great job making Killmonger a sympathetic villain for this very reason.

I think that we forget that Africa is a continent with a vast amount of people groups, cultures, languages, etc. One thing I liked in Hudlin's run was his black panther annual. I'm not saying wakanda shouldn't get involved in stopping things like the slave trade but to police all the various people groups is another thing. Many of these African nations would probably be hostile towards Wakanda.

How would Wakanda stop the suffering of all the people in the continent with various people groups? Should Wakanda colonize other African countries? People in Africa don't see all other African countries as one monolithic entity.

Hudlin's annual IMHO really lays out the issue of Wakanda in relation to the continent.

[chief12d]

I can see your point here and in many ways I can agree. But if Wakandans are Wakandan first then I think it’s a bit distasteful for them to not realize that they are also Africans, second and Black People third. Isolationism may have kept them safe and hidden from the world and it’s horrors, but while they advanced and used their Vibranium privilege(yes it is privilege, they didn’t earn it, they were just lucky enough to be born on that rock as you said) to further their own society, everyone else who looked like them was being enslaved, tortured, and demonized the world over. So at what point does self preservation just become self involvement? And beyond that a Nation-State with deeply engrained cultural xenophobia?

How would that look in the real world? Would we as non-Wakandan born. Black people support really a country like that? That had the power to aid so much suffering and chose not to? Genuine questions that I ask myself as a fan of the BP franchise and I think others should as well. The movie did a great job making Killmonger a sympathetic villain for this very reason.

Wakanda is so painfully isolationist because that is the story writers want to tell. It's a narrative tool to prop up T'Challa and make his attempts to be a global hero all the more powerful. The king of a hidden country trying to do good for the whole world has a much better thematic touch than a king of a nation that has always been open doing the same. It's not supposed to make a bunch of sense, it's supposed to highlight T'Challa and his attempts to reverse that ideology. Same goes for most superhero kings like Aquaman and Black Bolt, that duality is there to make them more interesting characters.

And since we've moved on from Wakanda's debut I'd argue T'challa has made a decent degree of progress. Other books have referenced Wakanda trading with the outside world, characters from other franchises have studied in the Golden City, Wakandan schools have appeared at international schooling events, etc. There's still a lot of progress to be made but at the end of the day, Wakandan isolationism is intrinsic to the mythos because it's what makes T'challa more compelling and therefore will never be fully extinguished.

And from a more meta standpoint, Wakanda's isolationism is supposed to be the inversion of actual African history. So rather than having been conquered and exploited by European powers, Wakanda prospered in isolation and surpassed them in technological and spiritual knowledge. I highly doubt that the pan-African notion of Wakandans helping other Africans factored into the mind of Stan Lee when he first developed the concept so Wakanda exists in that awkward middleground where black folks admire its accomplishments but are left wondering why they didn't do more. iirc, Hudlin touched on this by having Wakanda do some covert work during the Atlantic slave trade. And didn't Coates have Wakanda meeting and arming African Americans (DOS) to support their communities in The Crew? It could be argued that they could've done more (though I doubt 18th century Wakanda could stop a slave trade happening on the other side of the continent) but it's not like they did absolutely nothing.

[Dboi654]

If anyone is interested......

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...rowed-choices/

If they are going to go with Zanda then i would prefer they go the animated version. Hell with the the whole Norman Osborn/Dark Avengers story arc being rumored in the MCU, she would be a good addition to that maybe part of the Cabal group.

[XPac]

Wakanda is so painfully isolationist because that is the story writers want to tell. It's a narrative tool to prop up T'Challa and make his attempts to be a global hero all the more powerful. The king of a hidden country trying to do good for the whole world has a much better thematic touch than a king of a nation that has always been open doing the same. It's not supposed to make a bunch of sense, it's supposed to highlight T'Challa and his attempts to reverse that ideology. Same goes for most superhero kings like Aquaman and Black Bolt, that duality is there to make them more interesting characters.

And since we've moved on from Wakanda's debut I'd argue T'challa has made a decent degree of progress. Other books have referenced Wakanda trading with the outside world, characters from other franchises have studied in the Golden City, Wakandan schools have appeared at international schooling events, etc. There's still a lot of progress to be made but at the end of the day, Wakandan isolationism is intrinsic to the mythos because it's what makes T'challa more compelling and therefore will never be fully extinguished.

And from a more meta standpoint, Wakanda's isolationism is supposed to be the inversion of actual African history. So rather than having been conquered and exploited by European powers, Wakanda prospered in isolation and surpassed them in technological and spiritual knowledge. I highly doubt that the pan-African notion of Wakandans helping other Africans factored into the mind of Stan Lee when he first developed the concept so Wakanda exists in that awkward middleground where black folks admire its accomplishments but are left wondering why they didn't do more. iirc, Hudlin touched on this by having Wakanda do some covert work during the Atlantic slave trade. And didn't Coates have Wakanda meeting and arming African Americans (DOS) to support their communities in The Crew? It could be argued that they could've done more (though I doubt 18th century Wakanda could stop a slave trade happening on the other side of the continent) but it's not like they did absolutely nothing.

The thing is, it actually does make sense in a way. It's not NICE, but Wakanda for most of its history probably was safer and better off staying isolated and letting Africa fend for itself.

It's not the sort of logic a super hero like Tchalla can have, hence him being an agent of change. But the orher Wakandan rulers weren't super heroes, so it kind of works.

[chief12d]

If anyone is interested......

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...rowed-choices/

That's a bit disappointing if it's true. We've talked about Namor in this thread and I'm still not convinced that he's the best villain to use. Zanda is ok I guess but can't say she brings more to the table than guys like Achebe or Moses Magnum.

Namor does bring that grandoise action though so as long as he dies and the CGI is great I'll be happy with him as a villain. I'm sure Coogler is gonna get a lot of creative freedom on this so if he opts for a more villainous portrayal of Namor as maybe needing vibranium to save his oceans or something you got a great matchup. But if this ends up being an early set up for Secret Wars we may have to deal with "noble" T'Challa letting the villain live, which I'm not down for.