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  1. #10336
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    My brother's dkrook and Blind Wedjat stay dropping positive truth bombs on the regular up in here.

  2. #10337

    Lightbulb Exactly Blind Wedjat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Coates deciding to retcon and interpret Wakandans as colonisers when they were created by Lee and Kirby as an anti-colonialist statement (during a time when African nations were gaining independence) is like taking the Fantastic Four (a representation of family) and saying they never really liked each other anyway and they were just forced to work and live together. Or taking the X-Men (an albeit weird symbol of oppressed minority groups) and saying that humans actually liked and didn't fear them at first but then mutants suddenly started killing them. Or taking Superman and turning the character into a brooding, Randian, 'benevolent' god-like figure that doesn't believe he's a symbol of hope (look at how that turned out).

    If that's how you see the character in your own head or if that's how you wish the character should be for various reasons, sure. Go ahead and write your fan fiction. But understand that if you're writing comics--especially mainline comics that are usually accepted as canon unless explicitly stated otherwise--expect people to have their complaints about it.
    Very well said Blind Wedjat.

    It is like Marvel Editorial itself doesn't want the Black Panther to be what he was created as by Stan and Jack.
    Priest talked about trying to distance Black Panther from being a "black" book to assuage white anxiety.
    Coates just doesn't believe in what Black Panther and Wakanda stand for as a super intelligent king or righteous and powerful utopia respectively.

    I've said before that giving Coates Black Panther was like giving someone who thinks super powers are unrealistic and any one who did have x-ray vision would be looking through women's clothes, the Superman franchise.
    He thinks he is being smart but really it is just sad.

    The good thing, as shown by T'Challa's portrayal in other comics, is that the current showing of Black Panther and Wakanda in the main title is not one other writers want to write.


    Excelsior!

    Daoud

  3. #10338
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    My brother's dkrook and Blind Wedjat stay dropping positive truth bombs on the regular up in here.
    So says the Yoda of all things Wakanda! It's a challenge and a pleasure to strive to meet the high standards you and the other OG's set up in here!

  4. #10339
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    so how are people enjoying the new black panther book?
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  5. #10340
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    Agree with this 100%. Anytime somebody uses "woke" as a pejorative it comes off as a red flag to me personally. Mostly because all of this stuff is Disney property so the most you're going to get is "blatant slavery is bad and diversity is cool" which is literally the most harmless position to have and exactly what we've been getting in everything at least since the 90's.

    I'm a little late as far as forum time but I love the writing in Black Panther these past few issues man. Coates is concise and brings valid points while keeping T'Challa a full character. T'challa got shot to basically another dimension and still rose to the top as that guy and proved it astoundingly while enjoying it. He also still had flaws that come when you're somewhere you're not home too. This was really great man. Alot of African immigrants come to America and look down on Black Americans. They don't know about black wall street or redlining or fred hampton getting murdered by the US government only because he wanted to help poor people. They also shoot to the top because of their hard work but they don't *know* America until they themselves have to deal with shady police themselves or have someone harass them for being in the wrong neighborhood. It's human and an excellent message about how we have to be vigilant about not putting blinders on because it can happen to the best of us, really especially to the best of us.

    Watching Coates really get better writing comics over time has been a joy for me. I hope he can keep his positive momentum going.
    I'm loving this post and glad to see others are enjoying his run just as much as I am.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  6. #10341
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    so how are people enjoying the new black panther book?

    If you mean IDW, its already been cancelled and you can find it in a dumpster fire. But that is from an adults perspective. An elementary school child might think differently
    Last edited by Cville; 12-05-2019 at 09:39 PM.

  7. #10342
    Astonishing Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    Watched 21 Bridges.

    Man Boseman is such a good actor.

    Yea T'Challa should be more in charge for the sequel.

    You can tell Bosman will crush the "more seasoned/experienced" T'Challa. Not reckless like in Civil War and more sure of himself unlike BP (which was part of arc).
    Last edited by Klaue's Mixtape; 12-05-2019 at 11:25 PM.

  8. #10343
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    If you mean IDW, its already been cancelled and you can find it in a dumpster fire. But that is from an adults perspective. An elementary school child might think differently
    It's only going to issue 5 right?

    Yeah when will Marvel learn that on order to progress they need to build up T'Challa. First abd foremost. Yes people loved Shuri but it's not going to transfer to the mu Because they are so radically different.

    Really Redjack has been the only person to get it right consistently. BP quest was about T'Challa and hos adventures. Shuri was Supporting cast but still played an integral role and both of them shined. T'Challa and Shuri both had genius feats, one wasn't made to look like a fool infront of the other, and both had clear defined roles. The sooner Marvel follows Redjacks footprints the better off T'Challa and Wakanda Will be

  9. #10344
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    It's only going to issue 5 right?

    Yeah when will Marvel learn that on order to progress they need to build up T'Challa. First abd foremost. Yes people loved Shuri but it's not going to transfer to the mu Because they are so radically different.

    Really Redjack has been the only person to get it right consistently. BP quest was about T'Challa and hos adventures. Shuri was Supporting cast but still played an integral role and both of them shined. T'Challa and Shuri both had genius feats, one wasn't made to look like a fool infront of the other, and both had clear defined roles. The sooner Marvel follows Redjacks footprints the better off T'Challa and Wakanda Will be
    I checked with my LCS, they said no more solicitations that they could see. I think Kibblesmith, Narcisse, Aaron, and Zub have been doing good work too.

  10. #10345
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    So says the Yoda of all things Wakanda! It's a challenge and a pleasure to strive to meet the high standards you and the other OG's set up in here!
    My bro, I'm humbled to be amongst your ranks and feel that we all bring much needed perspective to the ongoing debate.

  11. #10346
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDMXV View Post
    Agree with this 100%. Anytime somebody uses "woke" as a pejorative it comes off as a red flag to me personally. Mostly because all of this stuff is Disney property so the most you're going to get is "blatant slavery is bad and diversity is cool" which is literally the most harmless position to have and exactly what we've been getting in everything at least since the 90's.

    I'm a little late as far as forum time but I love the writing in Black Panther these past few issues man. Coates is concise and brings valid points while keeping T'Challa a full character. T'challa got shot to basically another dimension and still rose to the top as that guy and proved it astoundingly while enjoying it. He also still had flaws that come when you're somewhere you're not home too. This was really great man. Alot of African immigrants come to America and look down on Black Americans. They don't know about black wall street or redlining or fred hampton getting murdered by the US government only because he wanted to help poor people. They also shoot to the top because of their hard work but they don't *know* America until they themselves have to deal with shady police themselves or have someone harass them for being in the wrong neighborhood. It's human and an excellent message about how we have to be vigilant about not putting blinders on because it can happen to the best of us, really especially to the best of us.

    Watching Coates really get better writing comics over time has been a joy for me. I hope he can keep his positive momentum going.
    I was born in London, UK to Nigerian parents, subsequently studied, worked and lived in Nigeria for a solid thirteen years before returning to the UK in the late 80's, have never visited the US but still know about all of the history relating to the Black Panther Revolutionary movement, Fred Hampton, the Tulsa massacre and literally close to everything about the Civil rights struggle in America because I've always had an inquisitively open minded approach to learning that's governed my life to date.

    Up until the recent launch of the Watchmen TV show, many of your fellow Americans (regardless of ethnicity) knew next to nothing about the Tulsa Massacre or Black Wall Street so I'm not sure where you get off maligning African immigrants who come to the USA from incredibly hostile environments, adapt to America and then, go on to achieve academically, get good jobs and build solid foundations for themselves for the most part despite the racism they face from some white Americans and the derision and ignorance they receive from some African-Americans.

    If you knew anything about the hostile environments some of these Africans came from rife with daily adversity and uncertainty, you'd have some awareness as to why some of these African immigrants you've predictably called out, look askance at some of their African-American cousins who after many years after slavery ended, still remain ignorant as to their own innate strengths and capacity to overcome the very real adversity they face living in a construct designed to slow anyone without full knowledge of self, excelling to the fullest.

    I have cousins born in the US to Nigerian parents, who've never had any negative encounters with the police and who for the most part get on with their daily lives dealing with lifes challenges on the regular.

    They don't have time to "look down" on anybody as they're to busy excelling but that hasn't precluded them from having their distinctly African names being sneered at by some of their African-American cousins.

    As for Coates the quality of Coates writing and its impact on the BP mythos, it was pretty obvious to me before he even penned the first issue of his run, that this writer knew absolutely nothing about actual African history or any of the rich cultural heritages that make up the rich tapestry of the entire length and breadth of the African continent.

    I say this with full confidence because at the end of the day, if Coaes had done his due diligence as regards actual research into African history, he would have had a clearer understanding of the historical inspiration for the Dora Milaje, the rich history of pre Western-intervention African systems of governance that existed for millennia that sustained these African civilizations long before the arrival of the white man.

    If Coates had even a baseline awareness of actual African history as opposed to his predilection for employing hyper-exaggerated stereotypes of African violence in his storytelling, he wouldn't have deployed his own jaundiced views of Africa into the Afrofuturistic milieu that Stan and Jack created all the way back in 1966.

    Coates seeming disdain for Africans coupled with a possible inferiority complex on his part, has him locked in a never ending moebius loop that compels him to force his own thoroughly westernized perceptions of Africa upon a purely fictional African civilisation that was designed by two Jewish guys, to be fantastic exploration of what could have been if left untouched by Western imperialism.

    It's Coates ignorance of pre-slave trade African history coupled with his a$$ backwards perception of Africans in general, that's informed every facet of his approach to the Black Panther mythos so it really doesn't come as a surprise to me that some folks who similarly lack any fact based knowledge of Africa and its multifaceted cultures would find no fault with his tone deaf BP solo, the ongoing and very deliberate neutering of T'Challa and his wholesale downgrading of Wakanda to a futuristic nation plagued with the the same psychological mental blocks suffered by others who were subjected to hundreds of years of mental and physical subjugation by colonisers.

    Coates skewed mentality has completely unable to countenance the existence of an African nation wholly independent and advanced to the highest level even when based within a wholly fictional sci-fi setting and because his imagination doesn't stretch that far, rape camps and Boko Haram type activities within Wakanda, were the default aesthetic he chose to go with.

    The sooner Coates gets done with his retrograde take on the BP mythos the better.

    He can go learn how to write comic books with some other character.
    Last edited by Mr MajestiK; 12-06-2019 at 04:51 AM.

  12. #10347
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daoud View Post

    I've said before that giving Coates Black Panther was like giving someone who thinks super powers are unrealistic and any one who did have x-ray vision would be looking through women's clothes, the Superman franchise.
    He thinks he is being smart but really it is just sad.
    He would make Superman into Highlander but then make it really boring on top of it while doing interviews telling you how his Superman is from an immigrant coming into a new country angle or some gobblygook garbage
    Black Panther Discord Server: https://discord.gg/SA3hQerktm

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  13. #10348
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post

    Coates deciding to retcon and interpret Wakandans as colonisers when they were created by Lee and Kirby as an anti-colonialist statement (during a time when African nations were gaining independence)


    About as succinctly as you can it.

    Coates decided to do a bunch of research into maps, poems, and some "african" names... didn't do any research into the actual character.

    I was born in London, UK to Nigerian parents, subsequently studied, worked and lived in Nigeria for a solid thirteen years before returning to the UK in the late 80's, have never visited the US but still know about all of the history relating to the Black Panther Revolutionary movement, Fred Hampton, the Tulsa massacre and literally close to everything about the Civil rights struggle in America because I've always had an inquisitively open minded approach to learning that's governed my life to date.

    Up until the recent launch of the Watchmen TV show, many of your fellow Americans (regardless of ethnicity) knew next to nothing about the Tulsa Massacre or Black Wall Street so I'm not sure where you get off maligning African immigrants who come to the USA from incredibly hostile environments, adapt to America and then, go on to achieve academically, get good jobs and build solid foundations for themselves for the most part despite the racism they face from some white Americans and the derision and ignorance they receive from some African-Americans.

    If you knew anything about the hostile environments some of these Africans came from rife with daily adversity and uncertainty, you'd have some awareness as to why some of these African immigrants you've predictably called out, look askance at some of their African-American cousins who after many years after slavery ended, still remain ignorant as to their own innate strengths and capacity to overcome the very real adversity they face living in a construct designed to slow anyone without full knowledge of self, excelling to the fullest.

    I have cousins born in the US to Nigerian parents, who've never had any negative encounters with the police and who for the most part get on with their daily lives dealing with lifes challenges on the regular.

    They don't have time to "look down" on anybody as they're to busy excelling but that hasn't precluded them from having their distinctly African names being sneered at by some of their African-American cousins.

    As for Coates the quality of Coates writing and its impact on the BP mythos, it was pretty obvious to me before he even penned the first issue of his run, that this writer knew absolutely nothing about actual African history or any of the rich cultural heritages that make up the rich tapestry of the entire length and breadth of the African continent.

    I say this with full confidence because at the end of the day, if Coaes had done his due diligence as regards actual research into African history, he would have had a clearer understanding of the historical inspiration for the Dora Milaje, the rich history of pre Western-intervention African systems of governance that existed for millennia that sustained these African civilizations long before the arrival of the white man.

    If Coates had even a baseline awareness of actual African history as opposed to his predilection for employing hyper-exaggerated stereotypes of African violence in his storytelling, he wouldn't have deployed his own jaundiced views of Africa into the Afrofuturistic milieu that Stan and Jack created all the way back in 1966.

    Coates seeming disdain for Africans coupled with a possible inferiority complex on his part, has him locked in a never ending moebius loop that compels him to force his own thoroughly westernized perceptions of Africa upon a purely fictional African civilisation that was designed by two Jewish guys, to be fantastic exploration of what could have been if left untouched by Western imperialism.

    It's Coates ignorance of pre-slave trade African history coupled with his a$$ backwards perception of Africans in general, that's informed every facet of his approach to the Black Panther mythos so it really doesn't come as a surprise to me that some folks who similarly lack any fact based knowledge of Africa and its multifaceted cultures would find no fault with his tone deaf BP solo, the ongoing and very deliberate neutering of T'Challa and his wholesale downgrading of Wakanda to a futuristic nation plagued with the the same psychological mental blocks suffered by others who were subjected to hundreds of years of mental and physical subjugation by colonisers.

    Coates skewed mentality has completely unable to countenance the existence of an African nation wholly independent and advanced to the highest level even when based within a wholly fictional sci-fi setting and because his imagination doesn't stretch that far, rape camps and Boko Haram type activities within Wakanda, were the default aesthetic he chose to go with.

    The sooner Coates gets done with his retrograde take on the BP mythos the better.

    He can go learn how to write comic books with some other character.





    Sometimes I forget that this run could be extra irritating to actual Africans
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 12-06-2019 at 06:27 AM.
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  14. #10349
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    I was born in London, UK to Nigerian parents, subsequently studied, worked and lived in Nigeria for a solid thirteen years before returning to the UK in the late 80's, have never visited the US but still know about all of the history relating to the Black Panther Revolutionary movement, Fred Hampton, the Tulsa massacre and literally close to everything about the Civil rights struggle in America because I've always had an inquisitively open minded approach to learning that's governed my life to date.

    Up until the recent launch of the Watchmen TV show, many of your fellow Americans (regardless of ethnicity) knew next to nothing about the Tulsa Massacre or Black Wall Street so I'm not sure where you get off maligning African immigrants who come to the USA from incredibly hostile environments, adapt to America and then, go on to achieve academically, get good jobs and build solid foundations for themselves for the most part despite the racism they face from some white Americans and the derision and ignorance they receive from some African-Americans.

    If you knew anything about the hostile environments some of these Africans came from rife with daily adversity and uncertainty, you'd have some awareness as to why some of these African immigrants you've predictably called out, look askance at some of their African-American cousins who after many years after slavery ended, still remain ignorant as to their own innate strengths and capacity to overcome the very real adversity they face living in a construct designed to slow anyone without full knowledge of self, excelling to the fullest.

    I have cousins born in the US to Nigerian parents, who've never had any negative encounters with the police and who for the most part get on with their daily lives dealing with lifes challenges on the regular.

    They don't have time to "look down" on anybody as they're to busy excelling but that hasn't precluded them from having their distinctly African names being sneered at by some of their African-American cousins.

    As for Coates the quality of Coates writing and its impact on the BP mythos, it was pretty obvious to me before he even penned the first issue of his run, that this writer knew absolutely nothing about actual African history or any of the rich cultural heritages that make up the rich tapestry of the entire length and breadth of the African continent.

    I say this with full confidence because at the end of the day, if Coaes had done his due diligence as regards actual research into African history, he would have had a clearer understanding of the historical inspiration for the Dora Milaje, the rich history of pre Western-intervention African systems of governance that existed for millennia that sustained these African civilizations long before the arrival of the white man.

    If Coates had even a baseline awareness of actual African history as opposed to his predilection for employing hyper-exaggerated stereotypes of African violence in his storytelling, he wouldn't have deployed his own jaundiced views of Africa into the Afrofuturistic milieu that Stan and Jack created all the way back in 1966.

    Coates seeming disdain for Africans coupled with a possible inferiority complex on his part, has him locked in a never ending moebius loop that compels him to force his own thoroughly westernized perceptions of Africa upon a purely fictional African civilisation that was designed by two Jewish guys, to be fantastic exploration of what could have been if left untouched by Western imperialism.

    It's Coates ignorance of pre-slave trade African history coupled with his a$$ backwards perception of Africans in general, that's informed every facet of his approach to the Black Panther mythos so it really doesn't come as a surprise to me that some folks who similarly lack any fact based knowledge of Africa and its multifaceted cultures would find no fault with his tone deaf BP solo, the ongoing and very deliberate neutering of T'Challa and his wholesale downgrading of Wakanda to a futuristic nation plagued with the the same psychological mental blocks suffered by others who were subjected to hundreds of years of mental and physical subjugation by colonisers.

    Coates skewed mentality has completely unable to countenance the existence of an African nation wholly independent and advanced to the highest level even when based within a wholly fictional sci-fi setting and because his imagination doesn't stretch that far, rape camps and Boko Haram type activities within Wakanda, were the default aesthetic he chose to go with.

    The sooner Coates gets done with his retrograde take on the BP mythos the better.

    He can go learn how to write comic books with some other character.
    GODDESS BE PRAISED!!!
    I want this post on every comic book site there is...because those who "think" they're "woke"...but actually Fauke...are still in bed, drooling on themselves, while the rest of us are wide awake.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  15. #10350
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    I was born in London, UK to Nigerian parents, subsequently studied, worked and lived in Nigeria for a solid thirteen years before returning to the UK in the late 80's, have never visited the US but still know about all of the history relating to the Black Panther Revolutionary movement, Fred Hampton, the Tulsa massacre and literally close to everything about the Civil rights struggle in America because I've always had an inquisitively open minded approach to learning that's governed my life to date.

    Up until the recent launch of the Watchmen TV show, many of your fellow Americans (regardless of ethnicity) knew next to nothing about the Tulsa Massacre or Black Wall Street so I'm not sure where you get off maligning African immigrants who come to the USA from incredibly hostile environments, adapt to America and then, go on to achieve academically, get good jobs and build solid foundations for themselves for the most part despite the racism they face from some white Americans and the derision and ignorance they receive from some African-Americans.

    If you knew anything about the hostile environments some of these Africans came from rife with daily adversity and uncertainty, you'd have some awareness as to why some of these African immigrants you've predictably called out, look askance at some of their African-American cousins who after many years after slavery ended, still remain ignorant as to their own innate strengths and capacity to overcome the very real adversity they face living in a construct designed to slow anyone without full knowledge of self, excelling to the fullest.

    I have cousins born in the US to Nigerian parents, who've never had any negative encounters with the police and who for the most part get on with their daily lives dealing with lifes challenges on the regular.

    They don't have time to "look down" on anybody as they're to busy excelling but that hasn't precluded them from having their distinctly African names being sneered at by some of their African-American cousins.

    As for Coates the quality of Coates writing and its impact on the BP mythos, it was pretty obvious to me before he even penned the first issue of his run, that this writer knew absolutely nothing about actual African history or any of the rich cultural heritages that make up the rich tapestry of the entire length and breadth of the African continent.

    I say this with full confidence because at the end of the day, if Coaes had done his due diligence as regards actual research into African history, he would have had a clearer understanding of the historical inspiration for the Dora Milaje, the rich history of pre Western-intervention African systems of governance that existed for millennia that sustained these African civilizations long before the arrival of the white man.

    If Coates had even a baseline awareness of actual African history as opposed to his predilection for employing hyper-exaggerated stereotypes of African violence in his storytelling, he wouldn't have deployed his own jaundiced views of Africa into the Afrofuturistic milieu that Stan and Jack created all the way back in 1966.

    Coates seeming disdain for Africans coupled with a possible inferiority complex on his part, has him locked in a never ending moebius loop that compels him to force his own thoroughly westernized perceptions of Africa upon a purely fictional African civilisation that was designed by two Jewish guys, to be fantastic exploration of what could have been if left untouched by Western imperialism.

    It's Coates ignorance of pre-slave trade African history coupled with his a$$ backwards perception of Africans in general, that's informed every facet of his approach to the Black Panther mythos so it really doesn't come as a surprise to me that some folks who similarly lack any fact based knowledge of Africa and its multifaceted cultures would find no fault with his tone deaf BP solo, the ongoing and very deliberate neutering of T'Challa and his wholesale downgrading of Wakanda to a futuristic nation plagued with the the same psychological mental blocks suffered by others who were subjected to hundreds of years of mental and physical subjugation by colonisers.

    Coates skewed mentality has completely unable to countenance the existence of an African nation wholly independent and advanced to the highest level even when based within a wholly fictional sci-fi setting and because his imagination doesn't stretch that far, rape camps and Boko Haram type activities within Wakanda, were the default aesthetic he chose to go with.

    The sooner Coates gets done with his retrograde take on the BP mythos the better.

    He can go learn how to write comic books with some other character.
    BCB, my bro.

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