Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Vibranium Weave]

Bruh, I'm not sure if you fully understand my message.

I'm not bashing Wakanda. I'm being realistic. Wakanda has spilled blood to protect their borders and turned a blind eye to the rest of the continent. MCU T'Challa acknowledged this truth along with his uncle and cousin. Killmonger is a direct reflection of Wakanda's immediate blindness. That's not me hating, that's me being truthful.

I notice a very glaring omission and I can't not mention it. Your stance is that I expect Wakanda the small country to take on the whole world. I never said that. I even acknowledge that its perfectly logical to protect their borders. But the idea that this small little country couldn't bring the world to its knees is a bit disingenuous, no? Aren't you cheapening the entire premise of the movie? Killmonger's plan wouldn't have devastated the global power structure? Are you kidding me? They absolutely would have conquered earth before Thanos arrived.

That's not the biggest conundrum you raise. You're sitting here telling me that Wakanda as a small country couldn't take on the entire globe by themselves, but you're upset that T'Challa is enlisting the aid of all black superpowered individuals, on top of his massive army, the Dora's and HZ, his own superpowered Wakandans to bring to bear against the might of an empire that spans 5 galaxies. Do you not understand the issue I have with framing? You're either okay with all of it or none of it.

I would absolutely love to have someone of the fake woke variety ask Storm all those questions about Katrina. Too bad Greg Pak beat them to the punch by opening her solo with scene that directly informs that question and tells the reader she's capable and willing to deal with such things. She even helps people rebuild. Nevertheless she could still answers some hard questions.

I never once said Wakanda SHOULD have stopped colonialism. I'm not king of Wakanda. The fact remains that they have the means to stop white supremacy across the MCU globe. Killmonger's ultimate goal tells us as much. That doesn't mean an end to all the world's problems, but white supremacy could meet its violent death under emperor N'Jadaka.

I've addressed the issue of T'Challa personal victories against his adversaries. I can't argue with those that are asking for more sure single handed victories. I want those too.

I'm well aware that his Dora's, HZ and the rest of his army are all black. You're just proving my point. T'Challa already has them. He won back their trust and allegiance. He also has a network of black people outside of Wakanda that loom to his country as a beacon of black excellence. I agree with that stance and I love that there are a group of non-Wakandans loyal to king and country.

These are all aspects that I don't deem as a negative and that give me cause to appreciate and celebrate. That's fine if you disagree, but I'm not hating on Wakanda any more than N'Jadaka or his father have.

Just to be clear, I am only referring to the Marvel Comics Universe, not the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I feel Coates his been doing a hatchet job on Wakanda since he started.

Go read hudlins annual. No one thinks Wakanda could not take on the world. In fact Hudlin himself has said they would of won, the problem is maintaining that order, and how many Wakandan lives would of been lost vs the benefit of taking over the world because in the end, Wakanda didn't want to have to police the world and they weren't large enough to do it in the way they would like to

What Ezyo said is true regarding Wakanda's involvement with combating white supremacy. Hudlin does a good job addressing it in the 1st BP annual. It would be a complicated thing for Wakanda to take on the whole world to combat colonization, please see the annual. Actually, in the annual Hudlin says that Wakanda could have possibly lost the war.

[Cville]

In the Annual about Wakanda and the slave trade Hudlin wrote that Wakanda had weapons that the world could not dream of. Wakanda chose not to conquer and enslave the world because that would have corrupted the country's soul. Also in that fictional account Wakanda was attacked ten times by slavers and the countries that knew Wakanda was behind some of the militant action of blacks against the slave trade. Wakanda repelled the attacks with ease. So what became of all that advance weaponry in modern times?

BTW Wakanda had a parliament before Coates run.

I think advanced is meant to be relative. If the colonial powers have muskets, Wakanda has bolt action rifles, if they have bow and arrows, WK has crossbows. I dont think Hudlin was going for if colonials have muskets Wakanda has lasers.

They also had a tribal council that could unseat and put under review the King/BP if he is deemed as unfit.

[Blind Wedjat]

Wakanda not doing anything (or not doing much/enough/whatever have you) during the enslavement and colonisation of Africa is not that big of a deal to me. I mean sure it obviously sucks for non Wakandans that their countries and people had to deal with these things. I also think it's a very valid accusation to throw their way. That's why Killmonger became such a notable villain, and why the film is so good to me. It brings up a difficult question that doesn't have an easy answer or solution, and Killmonger serves as a hard lesson for constantly relying on staunch traditions and isolationism (there are many things you can apply this lesson to which makes it more universal than people realise). I think it should remain part of who they are. Might be a hot take or whatever, but I didn't need the Hudlin fix. I understand why he did it, but I personally didn't like it. It felt like trying to give an easy answer to a difficult question and scenario so for me it just didn't have the weight. But of course no disrespect to Hudlin. I love his run of Black Panther.

I personally think that inaction should remain a part of Wakanda's history and legacy. Because again, it's not an easy thing to really answer. Who is to really say Wakanda could have freed the entire continent and the diaspora? Who is to say their neighbours would have wanted their help? How many lives--Wakandan and not--would have been lost in the process? How long would it have taken? At least how I see it is that the inaction makes for better storytelling if writers would just use it the right way.

What I don't like--and I've mentioned this here before--is Wakanda not doing anything to help anyone now, and the whole damn country (including T'Challa sometimes) being painted as xenophobic, isolationist stiffs. I personally think this image of Wakanda has run its course. It no longer sounds right to me. I want to see--really see--how Wakanda has changed the world. Like, I-Want-To-See-The-Receipts.gif see it. I'm so tired of Wakanda feeling like she hardly matters in the grand scheme of things in the MU. This is supposed to be a world superpower that appears out of nowhere, led by a very liberal king and nobody wants to tell a story about that? Seriously? Or is it that the only way this matters is why Wakanda decides to help the Avengers (who are not a good stand-in for "the world") and they get destroyed or invaded because of it?

I mean they really shouldn't be that xenophobic anymore. Their king actually never was involved with one of their own (which could be problematic but I digress). He married a US citizen, a mutant and was of Kenyan blood and no one had a problem with that. So I'm kinda tired of that angle being played out.

[Blind Wedjat]

I think advanced is meant to be relative. If the colonial powers have muskets, Wakanda has bolt action rifles, if they have bow and arrows, WK has crossbows. I dont think Hudlin was going for if colonials have muskets Wakanda has lasers.

They also had a tribal council that could unseat and put under review the King/BP if he is deemed as unfit.

During the 19th Century, Wakanda possessed a very Jack Kirby-esque looking device that could detonate rifles at an extremely long range. They were very advanced.

[Cville]

During the 19th Century, Wakanda possessed a very Jack Kirby-esque looking device that could detonate rifles at an extremely long range. They were very advanced.

And remember when it was destroyed when Red Skull invaded. After that they were pretty evenly matched. The super tech doesn't start until the time of Tchaka.

[Vibranium Weave]

I personally think that inaction should remain a part of Wakanda's history and legacy. Because again, it's not an easy thing to really answer. Who is to really say Wakanda could have freed the entire continent and the diaspora? Who is to say their neighbours would have wanted their help? How many lives--Wakandan and not--would have been lost in the process? How long would it have taken? At least how I see it is that the inaction makes for better storytelling if writers would just use it the right way.

Hudlin actually says that Wakanda could have lost the war in his annual. That's why I liked it because I believe he looked at it from multiple angles and Wakanda had to make a decision. But at least they tried to fight slavery.

To me, Coates is using the Black Panther run to make an indeitment on powerful nations and trying to show that all Nations and rulers oppress people. Coates is showing this oppression through Wakanda and T'Challa. He has done this in all his stories.This was never necessary. Wakanda was never about oppressing anyone, just self defense. T'Challa has not be heroic in his own run since Coates started writing.

[Vibranium Weave]

And remember when it was destroyed when Red Skull invaded. After that they were pretty evenly matched. The super tech doesn't start until the time of Tchaka.

They still had the Anti missile tech once the jammers were destroyed. It was how they shot down that nazi woman. Also Gabe Jones commented on their advanced machines when he was exploring the city.

Narcisse said at the opening summary of Rise that Wakanda was already advanced as well.

[Vibranium Weave]

In the Annual about Wakanda and the slave trade Hudlin wrote that Wakanda had weapons that the world could not dream of. Wakanda chose not to conquer and enslave the world because that would have corrupted the country's soul. Also in that fictional account Wakanda was attacked ten times by slavers and the countries that knew Wakanda was behind some of the militant action of blacks against the slave trade. Wakanda repelled the attacks with ease. So what became of all that advance weaponry in modern times?

BTW Wakanda had a parliament before Coates run.

Yup, I stand in agreement. Somehow I missed this post.

[Ezyo1000]

Just to be clear, I am only referring to the Marvel Comics Universe, not the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I feel Coates his been doing a hatchet job on Wakanda since he started.



What Ezyo said is true regarding Wakanda's involvement with combating white supremacy. Hudlin does a good job addressing it in the 1st BP annual. It would be a complicated thing for Wakanda to take on the whole world to combat colonization, please see the annual. Actually, in the annual Hudlin says that Wakanda could have possibly lost the war.

Well to clarify, in The annual, it's said Wakanda could of won, or could of lost yes, but then also stated Wakanda had tech the the western powers could only dream of. Wakanda would of won, but they would of had to adopt a colonizer mindset because no one stood with them even other African nations, and infact other nations who didn't agree our were on bad terms actually started rallying against a common enemy. Which makes the whole argument that Wakanda should of stopped the slave trade all the more ridiculous because Hudlin explains what happened

Edit: relevant pages in the annual

[terrancejameson]

Just to be clear, I am only referring to the Marvel Comics Universe, not the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I feel Coates his been doing a hatchet job on Wakanda since he started.



What Ezyo said is true regarding Wakanda's involvement with combating white supremacy. Hudlin does a good job addressing it in the 1st BP annual. It would be a complicated thing for Wakanda to take on the whole world to combat colonization, please see the annual. Actually, in the annual Hudlin says that Wakanda could have possibly lost the war.

I often merge my understanding of MU T’Challa with his MCU counterpart because I get the impression Coates is feels he’s writing him that way. Things make much more sense for me in that way. I’m fully aware that comes off a bit odd, but that’s why I weave them together that way.

[terrancejameson]

Well to clarify, in The annual, it's said Wakanda could of won, or could of lost yes, but then also stated Wakanda had tech the the western powers could only dream of. Wakanda would of won, but they would of had to adopt a colonizer mindset because no one stood with them even other African nations, and infact other nations who didn't agree our were on bad terms actually started rallying against a common enemy. Which makes the whole argument that Wakanda should of stopped the slave trade all the more ridiculous because Hudlin explains what happened

Edit: relevant pages in the annual

Ezyo1000, you’ve just proven my point. Wakanda could have successfully ended white supremacy flat out. The path would not have been pretty and it would have a involved adopting some of the atrocities committed against enslaved Africans in America. Wakandans are admirable for refusing to lose their humanity along the way. But make no mistake, they could have fully committed. Hudlin proves it with your scans and MCU Killmonger based his entire understanding on this fact.

The major irony for me in this refreshing realization is this is exactly what happened with the Wakandans who were sent into space, lost in time and later birthed the Wakandan galactic empire. If that isn’t Coates tying everything right back together I don’t know what is.

[Vibranium Weave]

I often merge my understanding of MU T’Challa with his MCU counterpart because I get the impression Coates is feels he’s writing him that way. Things make much more sense for me in that way. I’m fully aware that comes off a bit odd, but that’s why I weave them together that way.

I see them as 2 different versions since they are pretty different (i.e. MCU T'Challa not being a tech genius or T'Chaka dying later in T'Challa's life.) They are similar to just get a basic grasp of the Black Panther mythology, but too different too make a direct comparison.

Well to clarify, in The annual, it's said Wakanda could of won, or could of lost yes, but then also stated Wakanda had tech the the western powers could only dream of. Wakanda would of won, but they would of had to adopt a colonizer mindset because no one stood with them even other African nations, and infact other nations who didn't agree our were on bad terms actually started rallying against a common enemy. Which makes the whole argument that Wakanda should of stopped the slave trade all the more ridiculous because Hudlin explains what happened

Edit: relevant pages in the annual

As seen in Ezyo comment, Wakanda did try to help stop the slave trade. Hudlin also mentioned that secretly helped fight apartheid in south Africa (see Who is the Black Panther) & Narcisse said it in his story as well ( See Rise of the Black Panther).

I am not a fan of Coates run. IMHO, I think the "Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda" is a ridiculous nonsense storyline. Making Wakanda's oppressors (the very thing that have fought for 1000s of years) is ridiculous IMO. I believe the low sales this comic prove my point.

This is another story that just shows to me Coates only can write the plight of black people regarding anyone of African descent.

Ezyo, Storm says later that Wakanda could have possibly lost. She also mentions the savagery it would take to win. So it's not guaranteed Wakanda would win.

[butterflykyss]

bp looks amazing in this preview for this weds. I cant wait!!

[Vibranium Weave]

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[Ezyo1000]

Ezyo1000, you’ve just proven my point. Wakanda could have successfully ended white supremacy flat out. The path would not have been pretty and it would have a involved adopting some of the atrocities committed against enslaved Africans in America. Wakandans are admirable for refusing to lose their humanity along the way. But make no mistake, they could have fully committed. Hudlin proves it with your scans and MCU Killmonger based his entire understanding on this fact.

The major irony for me in this refreshing realization is this is exactly what happened with the Wakandans who were sent into space, lost in time and later birthed the Wakandan galactic empire. If that isn’t Coates tying everything right back together I don’t know what is.

Read it again, it was simply "hey flip this switch abd slavery is ended" look at WHY they didn't end it flat out. No one stood with them. They had zero allies. Neighboring African nations would of rallied against them in their fight to end it. They would of become the thing they were fighting to end to stop it.

Coates isn't tying anything together because the Wakandans in his story aren't fighting to end anything. They literally just start becoming colonizers.

And another clarification. You said Coates is writing BP like thr MCU version. They aren't the same and if that his solution then it proves he doesn't need to be on This book especially since the movie canr out after he started