Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[FLEX HECTIC]

There is very little Wakanda could do to end slavery which was inevitable!


If Africa was already divided and slave traders were well deep into the continent it was more of a problem of a weaker worldview than physical might!


Multiple tribes... Multiple gods to serve... It's like a football team arguing in the huddle while trying to pull off the next play before the clock runs out!


Basically all Wakanda could do was call all the other falling off the world map tribes and say "they're going to take you"





Wakanda: "We have a particular set of skills that make us a nightmare for..."

Slave Traders: "We already left on a ship with lots of cargo and won't be back for centuries... Good luck!"


It's not Wakanda's fault it's the other tribes for being too easy to be divided and not paying attention to world conditions regardless of technological capabilities or access to resources!


If you are sitting on oil reserves, diamonds and other precious resources and not making defensive advancements in a greedy world that takes by force then you get caught slipping!


Africa was so heavily targeted for forced manual labor by anyone smart enough to see that the cracked safe was wide open for easy robbery with minimal casualties!


Now who wants to go back in the nuclear launch code era and kickstart last years African tribes with a straight face and think this won't be another rinse, dry and repeat scenario!


Worldview 101 - Judeo-Christian, Islamic Sharia Law, Godless Socialist Communist, Monarchy: For King/Queen or Country, Democratic Republic One Man One Vote, Capitalist: Money Talks B.S. Walks or...


1001 Tribes divided by idols, language, culture, divinity, skin piercings and vast ethnic rivalries...


Yep, it's easy to see why much more organized worldviews ran through Africa like a hot knife in soft butter and Wakanda could do very little to prevent this continental debacle with or without vibranium!


Your ideals need to be more relevant and stronger than the next entities or be at their mercy...

[Marvell2100]

Read it again, it was simply "hey flip this switch abd slavery is ended" look at WHY they didn't end it flat out. No one stood with them. They had zero allies. Neighboring African nations would of rallied against them in their fight to end it. They would of become the thing they were fighting to end to stop it.

Coates isn't tying anything together because the Wakandans in his story aren't fighting to end anything. They literally just start becoming colonizers.

And another clarification. You said Coates is writing BP like thr MCU version. They aren't the same and if that his solution then it proves he doesn't need to be on This book especially since the movie canr out after he started

I agree. In order for Wakanda to single-handedly stop the slave trade, they would have likely gone to war against the world, with little to no help. Casualties would have been massive and Wakanda would have to remain a conquering nation in order to keep everything in check. They would have to have forces pretty much all over the globe which would have spread them thin.

Should Wakanda have made the attempt? Many would say yes and they likely wouldn't be wrong.

Would the world have been prepared for casualties on such a massive scale and possibly an entire planet under the control of a small African nation? Wakanda would likely have to kill rather than capture their enemies and probably come close to wiping out entire countries to remove the thought of any kind of response or uprising. How well does that sit with everyone, Wakanda becoming a conquering, police nation?

Defeating countries doesn't change peoples' hearts. People who hate, will always hate.

And no to the hell comparing Coates BP to the MCU version. Coates BP is a disaster.

[DigiCom]

How the pendulum has swung. First, Coates' partisans tried to insist that the MCU Panther was based on his run (when more stuff was taken from Stelfreeze's art than anything else he did).

Now folks are saying he was trying to write the MCU version... months before the movie came out.

[dkrook]

I agree. In order for Wakanda to single-handedly stop the slave trade, they would have likely gone to war against the world, with little to no help. Casualties would have been massive and Wakanda would have to remain a conquering nation in order to keep everything in check. They would have to have forces pretty much all over the globe which would have spread them thin.

Should Wakanda have made the attempt? Many would say yes and they likely wouldn't be wrong.

Would the world have been prepared for casualties on such a massive scale and possibly an entire planet under the control of a small African nation? Wakanda would likely have to kill rather than capture their enemies and probably come close to wiping out entire countries to remove the thought of any kind of response or uprising. How well does that sit with everyone, Wakanda becoming a conquering, police nation?

Defeating countries doesn't change peoples' hearts. People who hate, will always hate.

And no to the hell comparing Coates BP to the MCU version. Coates BP is a disaster.

It's funny cause in a sense Wakanda would have become the another America! Naw I can only see a scenario where white/european nations would've banded together in a world war against one African nation for all the marbles, and who knows the kind of desperate moves that they would have taken.

[Marvell2100]

It's funny cause in a sense Wakanda would have become the another America! Naw I can only see a scenario where white/european nations would've banded together in a world war against one African nation for all the marbles, and who knows the kind of desperate moves that they would have taken.

That's the scenario people aren't looking at. Wakanda would have to destroy nearly all of Europe and innocent lives would have been lost.

[Marvell2100]

How the pendulum has swung. First, Coates' partisans tried to insist that the MCU Panther was based on his run (when more stuff was taken from Stelfreeze's art than anything else he did).

Now folks are saying he was trying to write the MCU version... months before the movie came out.

Team effort.

[skyvolt2000]

As someone mention in this thread, T'Challa in his own comic book series has not defeated a single villain by himself under Coates reign of the BP comics. That's very sad and alarming. What kind of message does that send. I mean if he was fighting Galacutus, Ultron or Kang the conqueror every story line then that would make sense, but to struggle against the male African version of Poison Ivy, c'mon give me a break.

Also, T'Challa has the doras, HZ, an army of African warriors ( who are already black), most advanced tech, but he STILL needs to go and grab every black character by marvel? I guess I've always been a person that liked solo character comics, (which isn't the solo Black Panther comic supposed to be that?). I not to big on ensemble comics like the X-Men. I feel if you become interested in a particular character and they have a solo run, I should be able to pick up that run and learn more about why I should be interested in that said character.

You look at a character like Batman and you see how he has MANY stories of going in to a situation and defeating many adversaries by himself. But for some reason BP has to shoehorn every black character into his book to make it seem "pro-black"? How about showing BP as an effective hero 1st that is black, then others become more interested in the character. Then show Luke Cage or Misty Knight in there own mini series in the same way, and more people might read there stuff.

It sad that T'Challa has been around since the 1960s and in 2019 he doesn't even have up to 200 issues. It only takes 8 years to get to a hundred issues if the comic comes out every month. 8 years. But Coates says he doesn't want to write "awesome awesome T'Challa"? I guess because fans have gotten to much of that when it comes to T'Challa? It's ridiculous.

Heck where is Vibraxas at?

Shoe horn black folks? If Thunderball is there where is Cardiac? Both Prowlers, Miles, Sam Wilson, Rayshuan Lucas, Prodigy (since X-Men don't want him), Alex Wilder, Bro Voodoo, both Deathloks, Night Thrasher, Eli Bradley and so many others.

At least some of those folks would bring in readers.

Heck why has Storm not bought Synch in? Tag?

[Vibranium Weave]

There is very little Wakanda could do to end slavery which was inevitable!


If Africa was already divided and slave traders were well deep into the continent it was more of a problem of a weaker worldview than physical might!


Multiple tribes... Multiple gods to serve... It's like a football team arguing in the huddle while trying to pull off the next play before the clock runs out!


Basically all Wakanda could do was call all the other falling off the world map tribes and say "they're going to take you"





Wakanda: "We have a particular set of skills that make us a nightmare for..."

Slave Traders: "We already left on a ship with lots of cargo and won't be back for centuries... Good luck!"


It's not Wakanda's fault it's the other tribes for being too easy to be divided and not paying attention to world conditions regardless of technological capabilities or access to resources!


If you are sitting on oil reserves, diamonds and other precious resources and not making defensive advancements in a greedy world that takes by force then you get caught slipping!


Africa was so heavily targeted for forced manual labor by anyone smart enough to see that the cracked safe was wide open for easy robbery with minimal casualties!


Now who wants to go back in the nuclear launch code era and kickstart last years African tribes with a straight face and think this won't be another rinse, dry and repeat scenario!


Worldview 101 - Judeo-Christian, Islamic Sharia Law, Godless Socialist Communist, Monarchy: For King/Queen or Country, Democratic Republic One Man One Vote, Capitalist: Money Talks B.S. Walks or...


1001 Tribes divided by idols, language, culture, divinity, skin piercings and vast ethnic rivalries...


Yep, it's easy to see why much more organized worldviews ran through Africa like a hot knife in soft butter and Wakanda could do very little to prevent this continental debacle with or without vibranium!


Your ideals need to be more relevant and stronger than the next entities or be at their mercy...

Yup, makes sense.

Coates, stop the Wakanda bashing LOL!!!

[DigiCom]

Heck where is Vibraxas at?

Last page of BP #18.

[Mr MajestiK]

Secret Invasion: Wakanda battles Skrull invaders, including Super Skrulls, & leaves them in shambles.

Now: Wakanda gets their butts kicked off-panel by a bunch of grunts and a second-rate Plant-Man.

Like I've said previously, you remain the undisputed King of subtle rebuttals that pack a lethal punch.

[Mr MajestiK]

The city looked fine, so she must only be talking about the battle in servant valley with the handful of people they had two issues ago. I think Shuri was being dramatic.

Shuri doesn't write herself.

[Mr MajestiK]

I love the idea of T'Challa all black allies from across the diaspora. As Redjack alluded to, realistically speaking American born blacks should not have a romanticized idea of Wakanda. Their prosperity also speaks to inaction in regards to colonialism.

At the end of the day Wakandan excellence should be admired and protected at all costs. I fully expect for many to question their history. It's only natural. I also expect for other lack heroes to see what T'Challa is trying to do, how he plans to affect change across the globe, and I expect for Wakanda to be a beacon. Manifold, Thunderball, Storm, Luke Cage and Misty Knight have all shown up to have his back when he called. I fucking love that! I don't think that makes him weak. That makes him resourceful.

It's all brought right home for me because "Wakanda needs its king". It does not need "its council", or "its Hadari Yao", or "its Griot", or "Okoye", or "Nakia"... T'Challa is what Wakanda needs. My mans has gone and cultivated a team of BLACK PEOPLE that just happen to be superheroes to back his fucking play! I love the message that sends. It's a pan-African vibe if I've ever seen one and I couldn't be anymore excited by that.

And I thought I'd also mention how I enjoy the all black everything motif Coates is going with. If that makes me #fake #woke then so be it. Sign me right tf up! I love seeing a gathering of black people and I make no apologies about it. The fact that it truly bothers some people so much only makes me go harder in the paint. Lolololololol

I've never been one for empty symbolism or rhetoric that does absolutely nothing to address real problems as opposed to being merely placebo like in reality.

Reginald Hudlin's take on this particular motif was a lot more relevant and impactful without relegating T'Challa to clueless milquetoast status.

David Liss was another writer who succeeded in doing the same during his Kingpin of Wakanda arc wherein T'Challa, Luke Cage, Sam Wilson and Queen Shuri worked seamlessly to thwart Wison Fisk's machinations to takeover Wakanda.

Once again, T'Challa's strategic awareness and ability to think ten steps ahead of his opponents, was fully on display under David Liss's excellent writing and he's Caucasian too, which just goes to show that ethnicity doesn't really guarantee excellence where writing a BP solo is concerned as ably proven by Coates faux "woke" excursions into convoluted tales of an inept King presiding over a directionless Nation.

[Mr MajestiK]

I am honestly tired of all this Wakanda bashing. People get mad when countries want to police the whole world, but get mad that Wakanda did not do it. To me this is a huge compliant I have about Coates' run. I mean if you want to blame Wakanda for not stopping colonization (which did not only happen in Africa, but the whole world), you can blame a lot of other marvel heroes for not doing more for people the world all over. On the colonization, I feel read Hudlin's annual. It does a good job of presenting Wkanda's side of the story. What you're asking is a small advanced African country to take on the whole world.

Since Coates is so woke and wants to remember "history" and bash on T'Chala & Wakanda, let me ask a "woke" question about other marvel heroes:
With all this Storm worship Coates loves to do in the Black Panther comics, Why didn't Storm" Hadari Yao, lover & understander of all black issues & people" stop Katrina? She controls the weather, she could have gone there and really helped out. At least JMS had someone ask Thor this question in Thor's own comic (Thor was dead at the time). But Coates would never do it because it gets in the way of his faux "wokeness". Hold Storm accountable ( I challenge you COATES)

As an american born person who parents were born in Nigeria, I truly APPRECIATE what Wakanda represents. I am not running around saying "why didn't Wkanda stop Nigeria from being colonized? Which to be honest you could ask why did the Eternals, Inhumans,Kun-Lun, or Atlantians ignore the effects of colonization? Colonization effected the whole world ( Sun never sets over the British Empire)

At least Hudlin wrote a comic to address Black superheros response to that situation without tarnishing anyone.



As someone mention in this thread, T'Challa in his own comic book series has not defeated a single villain by himself under Coates reign of the BP comics. That's very sad and alarming. What kind of message does that send. I mean if he was fighting Galacutus, Ultron or Kang the conqueror every story line then that would make sense, but to struggle against the male African version of Poison Ivy, c'mon give me a break.

Also, T'Challa has the doras, HZ, an army of African warriors ( who are already black), most advanced tech, but he STILL needs to go and grab every black character by marvel? I guess I've always been a person that liked solo character comics, (which isn't the solo Black Panther comic supposed to be that?). I not to big on ensemble comics like the X-Men. I feel if you become interested in a particular character and they have a solo run, I should be able to pick up that run and learn more about why I should be interested in that said character.

You look at a character like Batman and you see how he has MANY stories of going in to a situation and defeating many adversaries by himself. But for some reason BP has to shoehorn every black character into his book to make it seem "pro-black"? How about showing BP as an effective hero 1st that is black, then others become more interested in the character. Then show Luke Cage or Misty Knight in there own mini series in the same way, and more people might read there stuff.

It sad that T'Challa has been around since the 1960s and in 2019 he doesn't even have up to 200 issues. It only takes 8 years to get to a hundred issues if the comic comes out every month. 8 years. But Coates says he doesn't want to write "awesome awesome T'Challa"? I guess because fans have gotten to much of that when it comes to T'Challa? It's ridiculous.

Thanks for posting this much needed dose of reality.

[Mr MajestiK]

The complaints about Wakanda not helping are inane, frankly. Were they supposed to launch an invasion of Europe and police the waters for 400 years? Yea, surely they could’ve done more locally but it’s been shown that they did get involved as far back as Hudlin’s run. That said, what Wakanda didn’t do in the past doesn’t matter to me and I assume the majority of readers nearly as much as what T’Challa is doing as their present superhero-king. For what it’s worth i say this as Nigerian/Sierra Leonean American. This need to constantly reevaluate and justify things within the mythos rather than taking a constructive approach and building on the foundation is lame at this point.

If a writer like Coates so clearly thinks that Wakandan civilization is fundamentally corrupt or irredeemable even with T’Challa at the helm then why is he writing? If every story has to come back around to slavery and black oppression/infighting in a Wakandan context then he clearly has too narrow a thematic focus to effectively depict the character and elevate him further within the MU. That this is coming at a time when T’Challa is leading the Avengers, the kingpin of global intelligence via the AoW, and appearing in big events makes it even worse because it’s squandering an opportunity.

And Coates’ handling of the character and the correspondingly poor sales reflect poorly on black comic characters as a whole. If Marvel sees that their leading black character can’t hold a solo, unfortunately there’s gonna be the spread of this insidious notion that they’re better off not investing in other black characters. It’s disappointing across the board but the bright side is the current sales almost guarantee a relaunch with a new (and likely established) writer. I’d prefer Evan Narcisse or Saladin but Jason Aaron would bring that name recognition and direct Avengers plug to make him an undisputed leader in the MU. Time will tell but after the dropping the book a few months ago I can only hope that in the meantime someone is cooking up a plan to move forward from this run.

Another excellent post.

Having read Saladin's Miles Morales, I totally agree that he'd be a solid fit to write a BP solo.

[Mr MajestiK]

In the Annual about Wakanda and the slave trade Hudlin wrote that Wakanda had weapons that the world could not dream of. Wakanda chose not to conquer and enslave the world because that would have corrupted the country's soul. Also in that fictional account Wakanda was attacked ten times by slavers and the countries that knew Wakanda was behind some of the militant action of blacks against the slave trade. Wakanda repelled the attacks with ease. So what became of all that advance weaponry in modern times?

BTW Wakanda had a parliament before Coates run.

This is another excellent post that just goes to show the depth of factual knowledge that exists within this thread.

People who've actually read pre-Coates Black Panthet in its entirety, bring verifiable facts along with them to any discussion of the mythos as opposed to speculation.