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  1. #1816
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Does any of this make them any less African?

    I understand that Wakanda is a fictional African Nation but for the sake of suspension of disbelief, in the real world, there were many African Nation States that fought against and resisted the Transatlantic Slavers. The fact that this bit of history is sublimated beneath a convenient distortion of historical fact, whilst pushing the wholly false narrative that Africans (as a whole) rolled over and docile surrendered their way into slavery, is indicative of cognitive dissonance of massive dimensions.
    Wakandan technology gave them RIDICULOUS military advantage over any intruder. They did not trade with their neighbors. They didn't inter-marry outside the tribes internal to the country. They literally murdered anyone who crossed their borders. for thousands of years. they share nothing with the rest of the continent except skin color and location. it's got nothing to do with a false narrative about what the rest of Africa did to fend of colonization. It's that the ONE entity capable of putting it to a dead stop, along with the other things I listed, did not.By choice,They helped no one. They mixed with no one. They murdered anyone who wasn't them for ten thousand years. Wakanda is Wakanda. Africa is Africa. In fact, it's not specific to Africa. Wakanda is Wakanda and the rest of the world is on its own. Until like last week.

  2. #1817
    Get Hectic! FLEX HECTIC's Avatar
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    Get Hectic!

  3. #1818
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Wakandan technology gave them RIDICULOUS military advantage over any intruder. They did not trade with their neighbors. They didn't inter-marry outside the tribes internal to the country. They literally murdered anyone who crossed their borders. for thousands of years. they share nothing with the rest of the continent except skin color and location. it's got nothing to do with a false narrative about what the rest of Africa did to fend of colonization. It's that the ONE entity capable of putting it to a dead stop, along with the other things I listed, did not.By choice,They helped no one. They mixed with no one. They murdered anyone who wasn't them for ten thousand years. Wakanda is Wakanda. Africa is Africa. In fact, it's not specific to Africa. Wakanda is Wakanda and the rest of the world is on its own. Until like last week.
    Sorry.

    That doesn't them any less African. (Within the fictional MU of course.)

    When Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the Black Panther and his mythos back in 1966, they were described as an African civilization hidden from the rest of the world as opposed to some quasi-alien off shoot of humanity such as the Inhumans.

    Let's not get too carried away with the revisionist history here.

    There was nothing remotely false about the narrative of Africans resisting the West in relation to the Transatlantic Slave Trade but I can see how choosing to see history from a perspective that portrayed Africans as being complicit in their own enslavement, would be easier to embrace for some.
    Last edited by Mr MajestiK; 02-12-2019 at 03:44 PM.
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  4. #1819
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Being that Wakanda is a country in Africa, then they would be Africans. That doesn't mean they have the same culture, belief systems or political identity.

    Africa is not a monolith.

  5. #1820
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    they share nothing with the rest of the continent except skin color and location
    Isn't that what makes them Africans? Hell they share languages, architecture and more with other African countries despite being isolationist until T'Challa.

    I don't think it's fair to say Wakanda isn't a part of Africa because of their politics, philosophy and advantages. That's what makes them Wakanda as they are but they are not therefore automatically separate from the continent.

  6. #1821
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    Isn't that what makes them Africans? Hell they share languages, architecture and more with other African countries despite being isolationist until T'Challa.

    I don't think it's fair to say Wakanda isn't a part of Africa because of their politics, philosophy and advantages. That's what makes them Wakanda as they are but they are not therefore automatically separate from the continent.
    When we talk about continents, it can be somewhat tricky.

    Canada and Mexico are obviously a part of the North American continent, but they're not thought of as Americans. Russia is mostly on the Asian continent, but they're not thought of as Asian.

    I'm not entirely sure how that works, now that I think about it.

  7. #1822
    Mighty Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Though the execution of Carols push has the subtely of a bull in a china shop, a part of me can't help but respect that they legitimately are trying. They're not giving up on her, and however I feel about the execution of her push, I'm glad she's getting it.

    I genuinely think 10 years from now the Avengers Big 3 might grow into the Avengers Big 5 with Carol and T'Challa.
    That is the thing all pushes have subtlety of a bull in china shop,We are just used to them pushing those characters. I am going to use DC character because it is easier to notice but in current era is Wonder Woman and Superman amazingly popular or has been the company been pushing those characters as important to people. How would certain characters sell if they weren't flooding A-list talent at them consistently and using them in important stories. When a run doesn't work they don't cancel the book they throw new creative team at it and new direction some characters become almost new characters. I mean lets make Horror book about a character that can't die at night, powers come from hell and is amazingly strong does that sound like the Incredible Hulk to you? Or a brand new character concept?

    You hit on the reason why I am not tripping about Captain Marvel push because that is how you are suppose to push a character. Shuri numbers aren't good you aren't suppose cancel and never see the book again, Nah drop a top creative team and new number 1 and try again ,put her in a team book, give her import roles in cross over stories. Captain Marvel is care you give to new IP and pretty funny it is also care given to old IP how many times do you need see them cancel the punisher, ghost rider, Moon Knight , Iron Fist, Dr Strange, or Blade projects. And Bringing it back to Black Panther how much better would his sales be if they were dropping all star artists and writers on the book that they throw at say Batman.

    They can push down your throats that Captain America is the greatest hero in the world no problem but they change the formula and now people notice it is a problem? Anyways moving on Wakanda isn't Africa?
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 02-12-2019 at 04:16 PM.

  8. #1823
    Get Hectic! FLEX HECTIC's Avatar
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    Since I married princess Zanda I am officially Narobian...


    Oh wait I'm sorry I'm just a sidepiece nothing to see here folks carry on!
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  9. #1824
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    That is the thing all pushes have subtlety of a bull in china shop,We are just used to them pushing those characters. I am going to use DC character because it is easier to notice but in current era is Wonder Woman and Superman amazingly popular or has been the company been pushing those characters as important to people. How would certain characters sell if they weren't flooding A-list talent at them consistently and using them in important stories. When a run doesn't work they don't cancel the book they throw new creative team at it and new direction some characters become almost new characters. I mean lets make Horror book about a character that can't die at night, powers come from hell and is amazingly strong does that sound like the Incredible Hulk to you? Or a brand new character concept?

    You hit on the reason why I am not tripping about Captain Marvel push because that is how you are suppose to push a character. Shuri numbers aren't good you aren't suppose cancel and never see the book again, Nah drop a top creative team and new number 1 and try again ,put her in a team book, give her import roles in cross over stories. Captain Marvel is care you give to new IP and pretty funny it is also care give to old IP how many times do you need see them cancel the punisher, ghost rider, Moon Knight , Iron Fist, Dr Strange, or Blade projects. And Bringing it back to Black Panther how much better would his sales be if they were dropping all star artists and writers on the book that they throw at say Batman.

    They can push down your throats that Captain America is the greatest hero in the world no problem but they change the formula and now people notice it is a problem?
    Again, I think it's a a matter of show and not tell. They push down the notion of Captain America being a great hero by showing him time and time again leading. It's not just an internet list telling us that he's the best, it's the actual stories overtime doing it.

    In Carols case, her time as a leader is somewhat limited and mostly off the radar. The only time she really stepped up on any sort of grand stage was Civil War, and that was a bit of a mess (though Carols side comes off better in her own tie ins).

    I can buy her being on a top 10 list of best leaders in the MU. I just don't buy that she's the absolute best. Not yet at least. Give us a few more years of stories showing her effectively lead, and I'll be happy to at least conider changing my mind. I have no problem at all with Carol.. I just don't think they're doing anywhere close to a good enough job delivering what they're trying to sell.

  10. #1825
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Sorry.

    That doesn't them any less African. (Within the fictional MU of course.)

    When Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the Black Panther and his mythos back in 1966, they were described as an African civilization hidden from the rest of the world as opposed to some quasi-alien off shoot of humanity such as the Inhumans.

    Let's not get too carried away with the revisionist history here.

    There was nothing remotely false about the narrative of Africans resisting the West in relation to the Transatlantic Slave Trade but I can see how choosing to see history from a perspective that portrayed Africans as being complicit in their own enslavement, would be easier to embrace for some.
    You're trying to educate someone who knows his subjects- both real and fictional AT LEAST as well as you. The false narrative is that Africans didn't fight back. Of course they did. That' sin't the issue. I'm just looking at the comics and what "actually" happened in the MU. Wakanda is in Africa. it's physically part of the continent but, beyond that, is has, by choice, withheld contact with its neighbors for the entire duration of human civilization as we know it. That means they developed independently in every way. They have no familial, linguistic or cultural ties to any other group in Africa, again, by their own choice. They were exclusive and independent from the entire rest of the world until T'Chaka and T'Challa opened the doors. They might as well be from Asgard or Shi'ar.

    You're trying to find a fight where there isn't one. No one posed the Wakandans as anything other than human.

  11. #1826
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    I'm curious to how much intermingling occurred.

    Ramonda is south african. Is Shuri the first "unpure" Queen for instance?

    Hmmm

    none of this has any cinematic use though! lol
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  12. #1827
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I'm curious to how much intermingling occurred.

    Ramonda is south african. Is Shuri the first "unpure" Queen for instance?

    Hmmm

    none of this has any cinematic use though! lol
    what you're dealing with is a bunch of people writing this stuff over the years who had little or no interest in the wider ramifications of the society they described for us or how it could plausibly sit in Africa. Priest, Hudlin and even Coates do take stabs at it to varying degrees and with varying success but, at the base, Wakanda was created by Lee * Kirby to be exactly the same sort of "secret nation" as Attilan, Subterannea, Atlantis or the Keewazi nation.

    If we take them at their word, Wakanda has equal amounts in common with the rest of Africa as it has with the rest of the world.
    Last edited by Redjack; 02-12-2019 at 05:08 PM.

  13. #1828
    Mighty Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Piece of Jason Aaron Interview on War of the realms


    CBR: The information I received suggest Tony Stark has a significant role to play in May's Avengers #19, but who are some of the other characters involved in this story? Which of the War of the Realms many fronts are you focusing on in the issue?

    Jason Aaron: There are a lot of different things going on around the world in Issue #19. There's action at Avengers Mountain that includes something mysterious that Tony Stark is building with Shuri and Screwbeard the Dwarf. There's also the fact that the Mountain is under siege by Frost Giants, the fire goblins of Muspelheim, and all the different bad guys involved in the War of the Realms. Black Panther will lead the defense of the mountain.It's the first time we'll have seen the mountain under attack. We don't know all it can do yet either. We just know that the Avengers' headquarters is inside this giant body of a dead Celestial. So it's our first chance to see the mountain in action.
    A Shuri sighting with her building tech,which is pretty interesting to me

  14. #1829
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Sorry.

    That doesn't them any less African. (Within the fictional MU of course.)

    When Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the Black Panther and his mythos back in 1966, they were described as an African civilization hidden from the rest of the world as opposed to some quasi-alien off shoot of humanity such as the Inhumans.

    Let's not get too carried away with the revisionist history here.

    There was nothing remotely false about the narrative of Africans resisting the West in relation to the Transatlantic Slave Trade but I can see how choosing to see history from a perspective that portrayed Africans as being complicit in their own enslavement, would be easier to embrace for some.
    I would go the opposite direction within the fictional setting and say Wakandans are the most African peoples on the continent. Their culture and traditions are unchanged and would most likely resemble that of the real tribes from the area before they became WK. While others countries have been changed due to various reasons, they keep it mostly the way they've always been.

    All respect to people who are actually from Africa on the boards. I don't want to seem like I'm taking anything away from you.

  15. #1830
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Piece of Jason Aaron Interview on War of the realms




    A Shuri sighting with her building tech,which is pretty interesting to me
    poor out some liquor for OG Queen Shuri

    It is all over for her now. ShuriQ is here to stay
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

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