Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Blind Wedjat]

This is exactly how I feel. Look at how Steve was treated in TWS with all the fight scenes (no depowering needed). Hell, look at how bad ass Ironman was while getting his ass beat by Black Dwarf and Thanos.

The ceremonial fights were strategic and appropriate storytelling with heart and passion, agreed, but no more of them shits lol. No more balling on a budget! Give BP extended fight scenes in that suit against opponents that wow us. And hire those into the badland fight choregraphers to teach Chadwick and them how to fight jackie chan/jet li style like they taught all those fat people on the show.

No excuses

Me personally, I'm not too big on the Into the Badlands fight choreography. I love wushu and wirefu/wuxia stuff but it doesn't feel authentic with that show and it just looks off to me. But it does seem like the cast is well trained. If you ask me, I want to see **** like Daredevil season 3 in concept but dialed up to 11. Obviously Matt isn't a supersoldier and T'Challa is faster, stronger and tougher than he is (with advanced tech), but imagine a BP vs Kraven fight like the vs Bullseye one like the Priest fight. Imagine T'Challa doing his ninja stealth thing, scaring the **** out of guys, taking them out slowly one by one until he goes ham on a crowd of them. Imagine T'Challa without his suit forced to fight his way out of a compromised Wakandan embassy. And honestly I find the fight choreography more in line with what I expect to see from T'Challa.

And really I don't think Chadwick is the problem. He apparently trained in like 12 different fighting styles (more than anyone has in the MCU), according to Maresse Crump who also trained him, we didn't see some of those techniques. There was some ninjutsu he learned that we didn't see, and we didn't see him use any Kali as well even though he trained in it. I think the problem was some of those fight scenes were cut short and T'Challa's choreography with it. Like, look at this. Look at the casino stuff. Some of T'Challa fight choreography was cut out, which sucks because you can see how good Chadwick got at capoeira.

I think like you said, he needs those kind of TWS fight scenes just dedicated to his ability, facing off guys that make him put in work. I think one problem the film may have had is that T'Challa with the exception of the challenge fights always fought regular, low skilled goons with guns. Which is why I'm hoping we get to see T'Challa fight hired assassins this time. Guys with the skill and now that Wakanda's secrets are opening, with the tech and other countermeasures ready to make him work.

[MindofShadow]

I think like you said, he needs those kind of TWS fight scenes just dedicated to his ability, facing off guys that make him put in work. I think one problem the film may have had is that T'Challa with the exception of the challenge fights always fought regular, low skilled goons with guns. Which is why I'm hoping we get to see T'Challa fight hired assassins this time. Guys with the skill and now that Wakanda's secrets are opening, with the tech and other countermeasures ready to make him work.

They all do that though. Cap picks on soldiers, STRIKE agents, and German swatt teams in his three movies. Thor picks on frost giant goons, marauders, fire demons, and reanimaed corpses in his three.

Part of marvel formula is watching these dudes go off on redshirts that just get obliterated. Just like we saw that in BP... nigeria, korea, and border tribe. The key is to keep the obliterations fresh, which I actually thought Coogler did a good job in. All three of the redshirt smashing scenes were very different.

The difference with the BP movie is that in his boss fights, he was depowered in two of them by design and then the third was probably the weakest action sequence in the movie outside the killshot. So you didn't really get to see BP go off on someone that is his equal superpower wise in a memorable set piece.

That is easily fixable..... stop the depower stuff lol. Which I think Coogler obviously will or you are just rehashing old story lines.

The bigger problem, IMO, is making the fights with the suit on feel real. It is hard to show the impact of punches and such when hiding in a suit that robs kinetic energy. They have to someway show the shots T'challa take have some sort of impact. The biggest issue with the mine fight is that it was hard to see when shots landed (and why the youtbe video with a life bar was helpful lol).

[Blind Wedjat]

They all do that though. Cap picks on soldiers, STRIKE agents, and German swatt teams in his three movies. Thor picks on frost giant goons, marauders, fire demons, and reanimaed corpses in his three.

Part of marvel formula is watching these dudes go off on redshirts that just get obliterated. Just like we saw that in BP... nigeria, korea, and border tribe. The key is to keep the obliterations fresh, which I actually thought Coogler did a good job in. All three of the redshirt smashing scenes were very different.

The difference with the BP movie is that in his boss fights, he was depowered in two of them by design and then the third was probably the weakest action sequence in the movie outside the killshot. So you didn't really get to see BP go off on someone that is his equal superpower wise in a memorable set piece.

That is easily fixable..... stop the depower stuff lol. Which I think Coogler obviously will or you are just rehashing old story lines.

The bigger problem, IMO, is making the fights with the suit on feel real. It is hard to show the impact of punches and such when hiding in a suit that robs kinetic energy. They have to someway show the shots T'challa take have some sort of impact. The biggest issue with the mine fight is that it was hard to see when shots landed (and why the youtbe video with a life bar was helpful lol).

That's why I'm saying the fight scenes with the suit on should feature people that can somehow get through to it or aren't just shooting at him. I don't know how they could do it (or if) but if it's the former it'll have to be guys packing enough firepower or using advanced tech and the latter should be more hand to hand stuff with guys as good or good enough to be a challenge.

I was thinking about this earlier, but the thing with the comics vs the movies is that the suit functions the way it should in the movies as opposed to the comics. T'Challa doesn't dodge bullets or shut guns off. He just keeps doing whatever it is he's doing while the bullets hit. Likewise he doesn't have to dodge a punch from a regular guy to the head because that guy would hurt his hand. It looks cool, but it isn't something we're used to with characters that aren't Superman. That might be an issue with the fight scenes because T'Challa is more efficient letting things hit him while he just beats people up. The tension we usually get from blocking, dodging, countering isn't there anymore. Which is why he needs to fight people that don't force him to do that. Again. I don't know how it will be done, but it'll help.

[MindofShadow]

That's why I'm saying the fight scenes with the suit on should feature people that can somehow get through to it or aren't just shooting at him. I don't know how they could do it (or if) but if it's the former it'll have to be guys packing enough firepower or using advanced tech and the latter should be more hand to hand stuff with guys as good or good enough to be a challenge.

I was thinking about this earlier, but the thing with the comics vs the movies is that the suit functions the way it should in the movies as opposed to the comics. T'Challa doesn't dodge bullets or shut guns off. He just keeps doing whatever it is he's doing while the bullets hit. Likewise he doesn't have to dodge a punch from a regular guy to the head because that guy would hurt his hand. It looks cool, but it isn't something we're used to with characters that aren't Superman. That might be an issue with the fight scenes because T'Challa is more efficient letting things hit him while he just beats people up. The tension we usually get from blocking, dodging, countering isn't there anymore. Which is why he needs to fight people that don't force him to do that. Again. I don't know how it will be done, but it'll help.

Winter Soldier hit him hard enough to dislodge him, even in the suit. So could Cap.

Or someone as strong as a grenade launcher or rhino would work lol

[XPac]

That's why I'm saying the fight scenes with the suit on should feature people that can somehow get through to it or aren't just shooting at him. I don't know how they could do it (or if) but if it's the former it'll have to be guys packing enough firepower or using advanced tech and the latter should be more hand to hand stuff with guys as good or good enough to be a challenge.

I was thinking about this earlier, but the thing with the comics vs the movies is that the suit functions the way it should in the movies as opposed to the comics. T'Challa doesn't dodge bullets or shut guns off. He just keeps doing whatever it is he's doing while the bullets hit. Likewise he doesn't have to dodge a punch from a regular guy to the head because that guy would hurt his hand. It looks cool, but it isn't something we're used to with characters that aren't Superman. That might be an issue with the fight scenes because T'Challa is more efficient letting things hit him while he just beats people up. The tension we usually get from blocking, dodging, countering isn't there anymore. Which is why he needs to fight people that don't force him to do that. Again. I don't know how it will be done, but it'll help.

I imagine in part he'll dodge or block even when he doesn't have to instinctually.

But really, it's just a matter of having fight people above pure street level. Anything Cap level and up, and T'Challa probably won't want to just take the hit.

The other issue is that if the suits works like Priests version, bladed weapons can penetrate the suit if they cut along the suits grains. So it's possible the same is true for the MCU version, though we don't know for sure.

[Rumble]

Me personally, I'm not too big on the Into the Badlands fight choreography. I love wushu and wirefu/wuxia stuff but it doesn't feel authentic with that show and it just looks off to me. But it does seem like the cast is well trained. If you ask me, I want to see **** like Daredevil season 3 in concept but dialed up to 11. Obviously Matt isn't a supersoldier and T'Challa is faster, stronger and tougher than he is (with advanced tech), but imagine a BP vs Kraven fight like the vs Bullseye one like the Priest fight. Imagine T'Challa doing his ninja stealth thing, scaring the **** out of guys, taking them out slowly one by one until he goes ham on a crowd of them. Imagine T'Challa without his suit forced to fight his way out of a compromised Wakandan embassy. And honestly I find the fight choreography more in line with what I expect to see from T'Challa.

And really I don't think Chadwick is the problem. He apparently trained in like 12 different fighting styles (more than anyone has in the MCU), according to Maresse Crump who also trained him, we didn't see some of those techniques. There was some ninjutsu he learned that we didn't see, and we didn't see him use any Kali as well even though he trained in it. I think the problem was some of those fight scenes were cut short and T'Challa's choreography with it. Like, look at this. Look at the casino stuff. Some of T'Challa fight choreography was cut out, which sucks because you can see how good Chadwick got at capoeira.

I think like you said, he needs those kind of TWS fight scenes just dedicated to his ability, facing off guys that make him put in work. I think one problem the film may have had is that T'Challa with the exception of the challenge fights always fought regular, low skilled goons with guns. Which is why I'm hoping we get to see T'Challa fight hired assassins this time. Guys with the skill and now that Wakanda's secrets are opening, with the tech and other countermeasures ready to make him work.

They all do that though. Cap picks on soldiers, STRIKE agents, and German swatt teams in his three movies. Thor picks on frost giant goons, marauders, fire demons, and reanimaed corpses in his three.

Part of marvel formula is watching these dudes go off on redshirts that just get obliterated. Just like we saw that in BP... nigeria, korea, and border tribe. The key is to keep the obliterations fresh, which I actually thought Coogler did a good job in. All three of the redshirt smashing scenes were very different.

The difference with the BP movie is that in his boss fights, he was depowered in two of them by design and then the third was probably the weakest action sequence in the movie outside the killshot. So you didn't really get to see BP go off on someone that is his equal superpower wise in a memorable set piece.

That is easily fixable..... stop the depower stuff lol. Which I think Coogler obviously will or you are just rehashing old story lines.

The bigger problem, IMO, is making the fights with the suit on feel real. It is hard to show the impact of punches and such when hiding in a suit that robs kinetic energy. They have to someway show the shots T'challa take have some sort of impact. The biggest issue with the mine fight is that it was hard to see when shots landed (and why the youtbe video with a life bar was helpful lol).

That's why I'm saying the fight scenes with the suit on should feature people that can somehow get through to it or aren't just shooting at him. I don't know how they could do it (or if) but if it's the former it'll have to be guys packing enough firepower or using advanced tech and the latter should be more hand to hand stuff with guys as good or good enough to be a challenge.

I was thinking about this earlier, but the thing with the comics vs the movies is that the suit functions the way it should in the movies as opposed to the comics. T'Challa doesn't dodge bullets or shut guns off. He just keeps doing whatever it is he's doing while the bullets hit. Likewise he doesn't have to dodge a punch from a regular guy to the head because that guy would hurt his hand. It looks cool, but it isn't something we're used to with characters that aren't Superman. That might be an issue with the fight scenes because T'Challa is more efficient letting things hit him while he just beats people up. The tension we usually get from blocking, dodging, countering isn't there anymore. Which is why he needs to fight people that don't force him to do that. Again. I don't know how it will be done, but it'll help.

This is awesome discussion among Black Panther fans. All you troll-lames take note

[MindofShadow]

We very well could see Anti-Metal in BP2 as well.

The real stuff, not the "anti-metal" in BP comic claws that doesn't act like anti-metal at all lol.

The "cut right through T'chadwick suit" stuff.

Give Zanda an anti-metal knife supplied by Moses Magnum and all of a sudden the game changes.

Plus... T'challa's first suit gets damaged, he has to go to another one... MORE TOYS BABY!

[Rumble]

I had this discussion on HEF a year back about T'Challa's suit. As much as we love Goon Slam Gary, poor guy is out of a job if BP's suit operates like it's supposed to.. i.e. if it operates like it does in the movies.

Honestly, if not for there being hostages and wifey in the trucks, MCU BP really didn't have to do any stealth flipping and maneuvering. He really could've just walked calmly to each of the naija dudes and popped them in the face one at a time while scratching his ass... until they all laid k.o.'d or ran away.

I was saying at HEF that the logical solution is to raise the level of BP's competition, instead of lowering BP's ability to compete. You can still have karate black man, but the nygga bullet proof and doesn't need to bounce around like Spider-man or Daredevil if all he's dealing with is thugs with guns.

Thorne using Tiger Shark as his Goon Slam Gary was genius

[Rumble]

Goon Slam Gary would take one look at Aaron's BP and would simply give up, on some "nah fukk that, they don't pay me enough for this bullshit... I wonder whether Prowler needs any redshirts to beat up..."

Aaron got his BP going up against Namor, vampire assassins, and smokey the bear. Level of competition is appropriate for the suit, tech, and light sabers.

Let's get our minds right

[DigiCom]

Dude chose Middle Passage specifically, what whatever reason. I have no idea why.

I'm with Blind Wedjat on this:

…Coates simply called it an allegory of the Middle Passage for pretentious points…

If you replace the names of the planets, races, and people, this "allegory" becomes the most generic P.O.S. space rebellion story possible. TNC is merely raiding historical events to make his story sound more literary, but there's no depth, no character arcs... just by-the-numbers space opera and pretty art.

[Shadey]

Goon Slam Gary would take one look at Aaron's BP and would simply give up, on some "nah fukk that, they don't pay me enough for this bullshit... I wonder whether Prowler needs any redshirts to beat up..."

Aaron got his BP going up against Namor, vampire assassins, and smokey the bear. Level of competition is appropriate for the suit, tech, and light sabers.

Let's get our minds right

And tanking gamma ray nuclear explosions from a Hulk lol.

[The Cool Thatguy]

That's why I'm saying the fight scenes with the suit on should feature people that can somehow get through to it or aren't just shooting at him. I don't know how they could do it (or if) but if it's the former it'll have to be guys packing enough firepower or using advanced tech and the latter should be more hand to hand stuff with guys as good or good enough to be a challenge.

Agreed.

I loved Priest, he introduced some great concepts to the mythos, the suit being one of them. But Priest also followed logical progression, meaning that the suit was pretty useless most of the time.

Achebe had a bullet that could pierce it, Kraven knew how to get around it, Hydro-Man lucked into a work around, Nightshade got around it, as did Stark and that's just off the top of my head.

Which makes sense. You come at the king, you best not miss

[The Cool Thatguy]

If you replace the names of the planets, races, and people, this "allegory" becomes the most generic P.O.S. space rebellion story possible. TNC is merely raiding historical events to make his story sound more literary, but there's no depth, no character arcs... just by-the-numbers space opera and pretty art.

Well, at least it's a step up from depicting Wakanda as European colonizers

But still damn low all the same

[MindofShadow]

Agreed.

I loved Priest, he introduced some great concepts to the mythos, the suit being one of them. But Priest also followed logical progression, meaning that the suit was pretty useless most of the time.

Achebe had a bullet that could pierce it, Kraven knew how to get around it, Hydro-Man lucked into a work around, Nightshade got around it, as did Stark and that's just off the top of my head.

Which makes sense. You come at the king, you best not miss

Or allowed him to punch outside his weight class.

Iron Fist, Iron Man, swallowed by a dragon, Namor, Hulk

It is like... and this is a shocking concept... Priest is a professional comic writer who knew what he was doing lol

[Cville]

Well, at least it's a step up from depicting Wakanda as European colonizers

But still damn low all the same

I would say this arc shows they still are. Until 12 or 13 when we maybe get to see Wakanda Prime.