Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Cville]

I mean, the force push the shield into the spear throw was cooler then watching him mow through redshirts in a standard Cap way. BP is unique and how Coogler want about fights was unique. Just give him another scene like the trafficker scene but brighten it up and it will be good

Plus you expect him to go harder on outsiders than on fellow Wakandans not named Killmonger(even though he gave him a chance also.)

[Cville]

Not BP related, but it might be due to the Black Panther movie effect. Plus its good. Walkers' Bitter Root got optioned by a studio.

https://www.newsarama.com/44491-bitt...ry-report.html

If only Milestone had come out last year. Might have got a Icon or Static movie confirmed. lol

[Ezyo1000]

Plus you expect him to go harder on outsiders than on fellow Wakandans not named Killmonger(even though he gave him a chance also.)

I mean dude in the dragon flyer obviously got the worst of it, but the car chase? Homie threw a dude out of a moving car who was then run over, his buddy crashed into a divider, there other friends got crushed by the force push and Klaw and con got flung around in their car that had it's wheel tore off. T'Chadwick went hard AF

[Blind Wedjat]

We very well could see Anti-Metal in BP2 as well.

The real stuff, not the "anti-metal" in BP comic claws that doesn't act like anti-metal at all lol.

The "cut right through T'chadwick suit" stuff.

Give Zanda an anti-metal knife supplied by Moses Magnum and all of a sudden the game changes.

Plus... T'challa's first suit gets damaged, he has to go to another one... MORE TOYS BABY!

Hmm, as long as we're talking metals that could counter vibranium, what about reverbium? It's basically reverse-vibranium, in that it amplifies instead of dampens the energy it absorbs, thus making it extremely, dangerously volatile. Could have it that in the MCU, it comes about as a result of attempts to duplicate or recreate vibranium, kicking off a new arms race like the advent of the super-soldier did.

I once suggested Killmonger in the comics should be rocking Anti-Metal weapons (particularly bladed ones) considering he's like the anti-T'Challa. I'm not too sure if the discovery of a new metal would work well within the context of a sequel though, either by exploration or experimentation. Experimentation might fit better because I'm thinking since Wakanda was opened up and sharing resources, some guys would have started tinkering with Vibranium. But we have no idea what T'Challa plans on trading with the rest of the world, but something does tell me we can easily have guys turning useful technologies into weapons.

Either way, anti-metal, reverbium or repurposed Wakandan tech would make for new weapons in the sequel.

Agreed.

I loved Priest, he introduced some great concepts to the mythos, the suit being one of them. But Priest also followed logical progression, meaning that the suit was pretty useless most of the time.

Achebe had a bullet that could pierce it, Kraven knew how to get around it, Hydro-Man lucked into a work around, Nightshade got around it, as did Stark and that's just off the top of my head.

Which makes sense. You come at the king, you best not miss

Or allowed him to punch outside his weight class.

Iron Fist, Iron Man, swallowed by a dragon, Namor, Hulk

It is like... and this is a shocking concept... Priest is a professional comic writer who knew what he was doing lol

I was thinking about the ways someone could hurt T'Challa while he was in the suit in the MCU using evidence in the comics. The problem is that unlike the comics the movies show the suit operating the way it should most of the time. So truthfully, I don't think a guy with T'Challa's strength hitting him even means anything. Cap through his shield at the back of his head and he wasn't hurt and got up immediately. Bucky gave him an uppercut with his metal arm and he just got back up like it was nothing. Cap kicked him hard enough so send him rolling, but he didn't grunt like it even hurt and was more than fine after. He tanked two of Hawkeye's explosive arrows in the face, and four of Black Widow's stun blasts (and they each stunned him for a few seconds). People talk about BP being OP in his solo and it was boring, but forget he was extremely OP in Civil War. It just worked better in that context because he was an antagonist.

Anyway what I came up with so far includes:

1. Strangulation. This is a good tactic for guys who have enhanced strength. Could knock him out or kill him.

2. Drowning. Self explanatory.

3. Anti-Vibranium tech and materials. The nanotech suit can be destabilized with sonics and can leave T'Challa vulnerable. They could also introduce new tech that could do that, like Nightshade did in Priest's run

4. Anything that affects T'Challa's enhanced senses. I really want to see this in the MCU. But I noticed that it seemed Vibranium absorbs sounds so that might have prevented it from affecting his hearing.

5. Considering that Black Widow's stunners seemed to at least work a bit, you could have stun weapons like that. Maybe this time they could be strong enough to kill a man or something like that.

I'm not confident blunt force does it anymore. I mean maybe the suit was a bit still OP, but T'Challa fell down a Vibranium mine and was hit by a Vibranium train in the suit and was fine. The only thing that hurt him in the suit was a rhino horn (you could see him bleeding through the suit).

I think there was a simple solution to making T'Challa badass in BP.

Only have him do ONE blast with the suit. The jump, blast and throw the spear concept was amazing. Although the CGI could have been a tad better.

However, once the CGI appeared to be not on par they should have just re-shot several LONG scenes of T'Challa whooping Wakandans with just hand to hand combat.

Imagine T'Challa having one of these type scenes (no blood though, lol)

Like others said I think the way the blasts were used were fine. I think the actual potential problem with it is that it might be too powerful. I don't think T'Challa should be capable of making the energy explosions he did with the suit, especially against the Border tribe. I don't think the suit should be able to absorb that much energy and redirect it. Evan Narcisse seemed to have restricted it only to the gloves and boots. I think that's a good idea. Focus it into punches and kicks instead of full body AOE blasts.

But I do agree that longer scenes of T'Challa using hand to hand against the Border tribe would have been sick. The funny thing is there are some clips of the stunt and fight team practicing and one of them shows what seems to be T'Challa stunt double fighting Border tribe guys using hand to hand, especially with some cool looking tricking moves and kicks, but it either wasn't shot or didn't make the final cut.

[MindofShadow]

I once suggested Killmonger in the comics should be rocking Anti-Metal weapons (particularly bladed ones) considering he's like the anti-T'Challa. I'm not too sure if the discovery of a new metal would work well within the context of a sequel though, either by exploration or experimentation. Experimentation might fit better because I'm thinking since Wakanda was opened up and sharing resources, some guys would have started tinkering with Vibranium. But we have no idea what T'Challa plans on trading with the rest of the world, but something does tell me we can easily have guys turning useful technologies into weapons.

Either way, anti-metal, reverbium or repurposed Wakandan tech would make for new weapons in the sequel.





I was thinking about the ways someone could hurt T'Challa while he was in the suit in the MCU using evidence in the comics. The problem is that unlike the comics the movies show the suit operating the way it should most of the time. So truthfully, I don't think a guy with T'Challa's strength hitting him even means anything. Cap through his shield at the back of his head and he wasn't hurt and got up immediately. Bucky gave him an uppercut with his metal arm and he just got back up like it was nothing. Cap kicked him hard enough so send him rolling, but he didn't grunt like it even hurt and was more than fine after. He tanked two of Hawkeye's explosive arrows in the face, and four of Black Widow's stun blasts (and they each stunned him for a few seconds). People talk about BP being OP in his solo and it was boring, but forget he was extremely OP in Civil War. It just worked better in that context because he was an antagonist.

Anyway what I came up with so far includes:

1. Strangulation. This is a good tactic for guys who have enhanced strength. Could knock him out or kill him.

2. Drowning. Self explanatory.

3. Anti-Vibranium tech and materials. The nanotech suit can be destabilized with sonics and can leave T'Challa vulnerable. They could also introduce new tech that could do that, like Nightshade did in Priest's run

4. Anything that affects T'Challa's enhanced senses. I really want to see this in the MCU. But I noticed that it seemed Vibranium absorbs sounds so that might have prevented it from affecting his hearing.

5. Considering that Black Widow's stunners seemed to at least work a bit, you could have stun weapons like that. Maybe this time they could be strong enough to kill a man or something like that.

I'm not confident blunt force does it anymore. I mean maybe the suit was a bit still OP, but T'Challa fell down a Vibranium mine and was hit by a Vibranium train in the suit and was fine. The only thing that hurt him in the suit was a rhino horn (you could see him bleeding through the suit).

Like others said I think the way the blasts were used were fine. I think the actual potential problem with it is that it might be too powerful. I don't think T'Challa should be capable of making the energy explosions he did with the suit, especially against the Border tribe. I don't think the suit should be able to absorb that much energy and redirect it. Evan Narcisse seemed to have restricted it only to the gloves and boots. I think that's a good idea. Focus it into punches and kicks instead of full body AOE blasts.

But I do agree that longer scenes of T'Challa using hand to hand against the Border tribe would have been sick. The funny thing is there are some clips of the stunt and fight team practicing and one of them shows what seems to be T'Challa stunt double fighting Border tribe guys using hand to hand, especially with some cool looking tricking moves and kicks, but it either wasn't shot or didn't make the final cut.

Probably just didn't make the final cut. That battle scene was so busy. Gift and curse of a very strong supporting cast... you wanna give the supporting cast love too. But that does pull away from the lead a bit.

T'challa's supporting cast is just so damn big AND good. Stark only has Pepper, Rhodey, and Happy. Thor's was so shitty they just killed everyone and gave him Valkryie and Hulk in his third movie. Cap's cast from the first movie were all dead. Strange really only has Wong and Palmer. CM's cast is basically going to all be dead by her next solo.

Danai, Lupita, Winston, Letita, Daniel are just so damn talented that you want them to be used... and that isn't even counting MBJ... or is it counting Freeman, Bassett, Forrest Whitaker, Sherling, and the Kani's

The sequel does have a choice to make on the supporting cast. Zuri is dead so he's gone. W'kabi is in prison so you don't HAVE to bring him back for anything meaningful. Freeman played his part and I don't really need him back either. Don't need to see the dead ancestors anymore. That does narrow things down a bit and should allow more focus on t'challa while still giving the Okoye/Nakia/Shuri/M'baku plenty to do.

For the record, I am not that worried about the suit or the action. They will get around it just fine most likely. If I am "worried" about anything (which I'm not really, just having fun discussion) is BP2 allowing T'chadwick to lead the movie and refocus on him a bit more.

Oh, and I am worried about what the new suit is gonna look like lol. Gotta have a new suit... Black James Bond gotta stay hip with the times! Gotta sell that merch! Are we getting those gold accents???

[MindofShadow]

There is about a 90% chance we see an HZ like stealth suit right?

Opening action scene (nearly every mcu movie has one) with T'challa infiltrating a facility to get back black market vibranium or tech?

[Rumble]

Me personally, I'm not too big on the Into the Badlands fight choreography. I love wushu and wirefu/wuxia stuff but it doesn't feel authentic with that show and it just looks off to me. But it does seem like the cast is well trained. If you ask me, I want to see **** like Daredevil season 3 in concept but dialed up to 11. Obviously Matt isn't a supersoldier and T'Challa is faster, stronger and tougher than he is (with advanced tech), but imagine a BP vs Kraven fight like the vs Bullseye one like the Priest fight. Imagine T'Challa doing his ninja stealth thing, scaring the **** out of guys, taking them out slowly one by one until he goes ham on a crowd of them. Imagine T'Challa without his suit forced to fight his way out of a compromised Wakandan embassy. And honestly I find the fight choreography more in line with what I expect to see from T'Challa.

Maaaan, bro i wouldn't lie, I LOVE that ish lol. Mind you, i say that within the context of it being a low-budget b-movie show. But hey, take away the goofy crouching tiger hidden dragon aerodynamics and just focus on the hand to hand, and them actors/actresses still fight better and put on a better show than pretty much ANYONE in the MCU!

Only ones that compares off top is Cap vs Batroc/GSP, Cap vs Buck highway scene, and T'Challa vs Erik waterfalls, and those are enhanced because of the cinematic feel of epic music, lighting, and heavy stakes. I know Chad learned like a million different martial arts but for me it's less of what you know and more of what you can show without a billion different camera splices (looking at you Natasha). The women, lil kids, and fat dudes in badlands put on a better show and the camera largely sits on them the entire time. That's what made Okoye's scene in casino stand out; the camera sat on her the whole time and she choregraphed it without any camera cuts. If they're gonna make a Shang Chi movie successful, then they better teach (or allow) their actors to fight for more than 2 second cuts!

With the DD netflix stuff, that's how i'd want to see a depowered T'Challa fight tbh lol, forcing his way out of a compromised Wakandan embassy (or fight in the casino in BP 1). But for powered T'Challa with suit, I'd expect him to walk through that like lightwork. Now yea, if it was a super soldier'd Kraven or Taskmaster, now we're talking but it goes back to I expect my super soldiers to super solder! A fight between BP and one of those two in an Embassy should continue to the rooftops and damn near across the city. And with either of those two, I expect the choregraphy to be on point! I also think with those guys, you can implement that stuff you said here:

1. Strangulation. This is a good tactic for guys who have enhanced strength. Could knock him out or kill him.

2. Drowning. Self explanatory.

3. Anti-Vibranium tech and materials. The nanotech suit can be destabilized with sonics and can leave T'Challa vulnerable. They could also introduce new tech that could do that, like Nightshade did in Priest's run

4. Anything that affects T'Challa's enhanced senses. I really want to see this in the MCU. But I noticed that it seemed Vibranium absorbs sounds so that might have prevented it from affecting his hearing.

5. Considering that Black Widow's stunners seemed to at least work a bit, you could have stun weapons like that. Maybe this time they could be strong enough to kill a man or something like that.

because it would be more their cup of tea. But i'd want that in addition to their choreography blended with their super soldier'ness. I think BP's suit is only an issue if the writers lack creativity and are too small scale. There's more than enough mid to high level villains to mess with BP, or mess with the public and force BP into tough decisions. They shouldn't hold back like they didn't hold back with Carol flying through spaceships lol. Literally someone like Tiger Shark should be the new goon level for BP, bc Gary ain't it!

And tanking gamma ray nuclear explosions from a Hulk lol.

I don't think ppl grasp the ramifications of him being able to do that lol

Aaron's BP would one-shot Coates entire season 1 storyline in like... a day? 2 days tops?

Probably just didn't make the final cut. That battle scene was so busy. Gift and curse of a very strong supporting cast... you wanna give the supporting cast love too. But that does pull away from the lead a bit.

T'challa's supporting cast is just so damn big AND good. Stark only has Pepper, Rhodey, and Happy. Thor's was so shitty they just killed everyone and gave him Valkryie and Hulk in his third movie. Cap's cast from the first movie were all dead. Strange really only has Wong and Palmer. CM's cast is basically going to all be dead by her next solo.

Danai, Lupita, Winston, Letita, Daniel are just so damn talented that you want them to be used... and that isn't even counting MBJ... or is it counting Freeman, Bassett, Forrest Whitaker, Sherling, and the Kani's

The sequel does have a choice to make on the supporting cast. Zuri is dead so he's gone. W'kabi is in prison so you don't HAVE to bring him back for anything meaningful. Freeman played his part and I don't really need him back either. Don't need to see the dead ancestors anymore. That does narrow things down a bit and should allow more focus on t'challa while still giving the Okoye/Nakia/Shuri/M'baku plenty to do.

For the record, I am not that worried about the suit or the action. They will get around it just fine most likely. If I am "worried" about anything (which I'm not really, just having fun discussion) is BP2 allowing T'chadwick to lead the movie and refocus on him a bit more.

Oh, and I am worried about what the new suit is gonna look like lol. Gotta have a new suit... Black James Bond gotta stay hip with the times! Gotta sell that merch! Are we getting those gold accents???

BP does have the GOAT supporting cast, which is a blessing and a curse. For instance, it would be a waste to drop the W'Kabi storyline; esp after they cut his scene with Okoye that arguably was one of the best acted in the film.

I'm not worried about the action, and I don't find the suit to be too powerful (i lowkey think it's the best thing to happen to him lol), i'm more so cautiously excited for the action in BP2. Because i think it's obvious to everyone that the action (when not depowered), the cgi (always problematic for marvel) and T'Challa (similar to Steve pre-TWS) seem to be the most obvious or constant critics for improvement by most. I'm pretty sure Coogler is well aware. I'm hoping they make the action and fight scenes similar to Cap 2, and less of whatever they always do with Black Widow. Cast a UFC fighter or boxer to pose as a super powered goon, like they did with Cap (GSP)!

[MindofShadow]

BP does have the GOAT supporting cast, which is a blessing and a curse. For instance, it would be a waste to drop the W'Kabi storyline; esp after they cut his scene with Okoye that arguably was one of the best acted in the film.

Heroic death incoming

[Blind Wedjat]

Oh, and I am worried about what the new suit is gonna look like lol. Gotta have a new suit... Black James Bond gotta stay hip with the times! Gotta sell that merch! Are we getting those gold accents???

There is about a 90% chance we see an HZ like stealth suit right?

Opening action scene (nearly every mcu movie has one) with T'challa infiltrating a facility to get back black market vibranium or tech?

Not too sure what I want for the new suit's look or how it would go. Part of me thinks they should go with something a lot simpler like the current Brian Stellfreeze design but it might not look as good as I imagine in live action. It adds to the stealth vibe I'm hoping for in the sequel. But the new suit should take the best things from the two current suits and make it work. The helmet of the CW suit looks far better, but the BP suit is more form fitting (and practical I think).

I'm also wondering if they should ditch a helmet altogether and go with a full face cowl/mask similar to Deadpool or Spider-Man. CGI in the eyes and add metal effects in post.

The opening action sequence could mirror the first one in BP but instead it's T'Challa, Nakia and Shuri working together to free human trafficking victims. Inspired by the action chase sequence in Casino Royale. Have T'Challa and Nakia using hard light hologram tech to disguise their appearances as buyers (you can make them white people for extra humour lol). Simultaneously show off T'Challa and Nakia kicking ass, flirting like Bond and his girl, and Wakandan tech at the same time . If it's not a trafficking ring, then yeah, recovering stolen tech at night using the suit. Inspired by the opening scene in Mission Impossible Fallout

I know Chad learned like a million different martial arts but for me it's less of what you know and more of what you can show without a billion different camera splices (looking at you Natasha). The women, lil kids, and fat dudes in badlands put on a better show and the camera largely sits on them the entire time. That's what made Okoye's scene in casino stand out; the camera sat on her the whole time and she choregraphed it without any camera cuts.

I think BP's suit is only an issue if the writers lack creativity and are too small scale. There's more than enough mid to high level villains to mess with BP, or mess with the public and force BP into tough decisions. They shouldn't hold back like they didn't hold back with Carol flying through spaceships lol. Literally someone like Tiger Shark should be the new goon level for BP, bc Gary ain't it!

BP does have the GOAT supporting cast, which is a blessing and a curse. For instance, it would be a waste to drop the W'Kabi storyline; esp after they cut his scene with Okoye that arguably was one of the best acted in the film.

I'm not worried about the action, and I don't find the suit to be too powerful (i lowkey think it's the best thing to happen to him lol), i'm more so cautiously excited for the action in BP2. Because i think it's obvious to everyone that the action (when not depowered), the cgi (always problematic for marvel) and T'Challa (similar to Steve pre-TWS) seem to be the most obvious or constant critics for improvement by most. I'm pretty sure Coogler is well aware. I'm hoping they make the action and fight scenes similar to Cap 2, and less of whatever they always do with Black Widow. Cast a UFC fighter or boxer to pose as a super powered goon, like they did with Cap (GSP)!

I think editing might have been the issue. B-roll footage and stunt team training clips show some really cool stuff for T'Challa that didn't make the final cut, some of which was even above TWS level. Endgame is apparently a 3 hour movie and even though the 4 hour assembly cut isn't a movie, I damn well know people will sit for an almost 3 hour Black Panther movie. Some people felt while the pacing was good the film may have been even stronger if they kept some scenes in and made others a bit longer. If it means we see more of Chadwick in action then go for it.

[Blind Wedjat]

I once saw this BP art on DeviantArt that I thought would have been the perfect movie suit.



Funny this was done back in 2016 way before the movie came out and it had done the leopard rosettes thing and the gold accents the Killmonger suit had. I wonder if any of the artists took inspiration from this.

(Art is by Rahzzah Murdock who does some variant covers for Marvel btw)

[butterflykyss]

Wouldn't this be true of any first generation slave too. Roman galley slaves from conquered countries would've have probably liked to go home. Berber pirates were the terror of southern Europe. Raiding villages and taking slaves.

I think what Wedgat is saying that for this to be a proper analogy the entire arc should have taken place on that ship he liberated an issue or two ago. Tchalla could have woken up on an space slave ship and led a rebellion on that.

Also I don't like the bolded. Without a proper background issue, what we do know is that Tchalla showed up, proved that he was a badass, and worked for the Imperial for most likely a year or two. I've surmised that he got into a Saul vs David situation with the emperor who ordered his execution out of jealousy or fear. Now that we know Achebe is a traitor, he is most likely the one who mind wiped him and sent him to the mines in a weird attempt to save his life. But that is just my speculation.

Other events or periods in history having elements of what he described as being a story about the middle passage doesnt make what he said untrue. The analogy is from the exprrience of an African American writing a story about an African character so it would make sense that in wanting to write a tale about those elements it would come from events he felt a deeper connection to. However, just to be clear i was never arguing against the idea he should have taken a different approach in telling a story about the middle passage as that is simply one's opinion. I'm arguing against the notion that there was nothing in coates story that had elements of the middle passage as that is simply not factually sound.

[Blind Wedjat]

I understood your point I just dont agree with your analysis. The idea of being separated from loved ones, not knowing if you are going to get back home, and fighting to get back home is not generic themes of slavery, especially if you look at slavery from the perspective of those who were born in the Americas and knew nothing of Africa.

When I say "generic", I mean the general, common and broad idea of the subjected. And how is it not? We're talking about the Trans-Atlantic slave trade here. That's the big deal for the slaves and for the African Americans and others in the black diaspora that settled in new lands. I didn't say it's the only idea of slavery, only that it is a broad one. People born into slavery in America don't have much to do with the Middle Passage though. Why are you bring that up?

Additionally, there were some slaves who lived on plantations with their loved ones (maybe three to four generations even) and never experienced being separated from their families. So it's all about perspective. The experiences of longing for home and fighting to get back home would be something that many black Americans many generations removed from Africa couldn't relate to and was why in Harriet's case when "conducting her train" had to threaten those escaped slaves with death for pushing to go back to their home or plantation - because that was all they new.

Do you see where the problem lies? We're talking about the Middle Passage but you're mentioning plantations. Plantations aren't a part of the Middle Passage: they're after it. And you're right, it's totally about perspective. That's what the problem is. Coates perspective he is using to right a so-called allegory of the Middle Passage is the wrong one.

Nevertheless, to understand the parallels between the Middle Passage and Coates BP look to his explanation:

"Sure but it’s really the Middle Passage. What Dani captures so well is the distance between T’Challa—kidnapped, mind-wiped and enslaved by Imperials—and his African home, represented by his beloved Storm."

Those elements all of what he said, whether you see them as generic or not, were still crucial aspects that many enslaved African Americans would or could never experience. African Americans predominantly wouldnt have to worry of being kidnapped, or longing and/or fighting for a home they had never been to nor any of their living relatives. So again I respectfully disagree with your points here. Tchalla, seeing that he did one day wake up with ONLY memories of Ororo (or africa) and longing to be with her, then fighting or rebelling to get back to HER is very specific to the Middle passage and what the Africans aboard those ships experienced. Again, just because he didnt execute it to your liking does not mean it has zero connections to it.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. Are you trying to say that Coates explanation fits the Middle Passage because many African Americans don't know of Africa and therefore saying the book has generic ideas on slavery is wrong? See, I would agree with you and this, if the story actually focused on that. The book doesn't, and it muddles everything up.

For starters, using Imperials is wrong. During the Middle Passage, the slaves tried to rebel against the crews of the slave ships. Now you might think Imperials are a good substitute for the crews, but they are not. The crews were often underpaid, underfed, had no real allegiance to the imperial and colonial powers, were tricked into manning the ships to pay of debts, and some didn't even want to be a part of slave trade. The dynamic between slaves and crew members was very different compared to slaves and imperialists. That is why this allegory does not work.

Secondly, the kidnapping is an important factor that isn't explored and should have been for it to be an actual allegory of the Middle Passage. Instead the book starts of with T'Challa as a mining slave a whole long time after he was transported. Coates give an explanation that T'Challa has been mindwiped and is dreaming of Storm, yet she is not a good substitute for his home at all. That's the big part of the whole thing.

Here is good allegory of the Middle Passage.



I'll just leave it at that because I don't think I'm gonna be changing your mind anyway and this discussion isn't going anywhere

[Blind Wedjat]

Jax has a mechanic in MK11 which allows his metal arms to overheat the more he punches an opponent. Considering I mentioned that like Narcisse did the kinetic energy thing to have been restricted to the gloves and boots of the suit, I think this is how the energy should build up. Have T'Challa build up his kinetic energy in the gloves and boots of his suit with punches and kicks (or blocking with his hands, landing from great heights, running) and then the release/redirection can be something like Jax's ground pound that release a small but powerful wave of energy that can knock a few enemies off their feet, or cause even more damage as a strike.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I once suggested Killmonger in the comics should be rocking Anti-Metal weapons (particularly bladed ones) considering he's like the anti-T'Challa. I'm not too sure if the discovery of a new metal would work well within the context of a sequel though, either by exploration or experimentation. Experimentation might fit better because I'm thinking since Wakanda was opened up and sharing resources, some guys would have started tinkering with Vibranium. But we have no idea what T'Challa plans on trading with the rest of the world, but something does tell me we can easily have guys turning useful technologies into weapons.

Either way, anti-metal, reverbium or repurposed Wakandan tech would make for new weapons in the sequel.





I was thinking about the ways someone could hurt T'Challa while he was in the suit in the MCU using evidence in the comics. The problem is that unlike the comics the movies show the suit operating the way it should most of the time. So truthfully, I don't think a guy with T'Challa's strength hitting him even means anything. Cap through his shield at the back of his head and he wasn't hurt and got up immediately. Bucky gave him an uppercut with his metal arm and he just got back up like it was nothing. Cap kicked him hard enough so send him rolling, but he didn't grunt like it even hurt and was more than fine after. He tanked two of Hawkeye's explosive arrows in the face, and four of Black Widow's stun blasts (and they each stunned him for a few seconds). People talk about BP being OP in his solo and it was boring, but forget he was extremely OP in Civil War. It just worked better in that context because he was an antagonist.

Anyway what I came up with so far includes:

1. Strangulation. This is a good tactic for guys who have enhanced strength. Could knock him out or kill him.

2. Drowning. Self explanatory.

3. Anti-Vibranium tech and materials. The nanotech suit can be destabilized with sonics and can leave T'Challa vulnerable. They could also introduce new tech that could do that, like Nightshade did in Priest's run

4. Anything that affects T'Challa's enhanced senses. I really want to see this in the MCU. But I noticed that it seemed Vibranium absorbs sounds so that might have prevented it from affecting his hearing.

5. Considering that Black Widow's stunners seemed to at least work a bit, you could have stun weapons like that. Maybe this time they could be strong enough to kill a man or something like that.

I'm not confident blunt force does it anymore. I mean maybe the suit was a bit still OP, but T'Challa fell down a Vibranium mine and was hit by a Vibranium train in the suit and was fine. The only thing that hurt him in the suit was a rhino horn (you could see him bleeding through the suit).



Like others said I think the way the blasts were used were fine. I think the actual potential problem with it is that it might be too powerful. I don't think T'Challa should be capable of making the energy explosions he did with the suit, especially against the Border tribe. I don't think the suit should be able to absorb that much energy and redirect it. Evan Narcisse seemed to have restricted it only to the gloves and boots. I think that's a good idea. Focus it into punches and kicks instead of full body AOE blasts.

But I do agree that longer scenes of T'Challa using hand to hand against the Border tribe would have been sick. The funny thing is there are some clips of the stunt and fight team practicing and one of them shows what seems to be T'Challa stunt double fighting Border tribe guys using hand to hand, especially with some cool looking tricking moves and kicks, but it either wasn't shot or didn't make the final cut.

Probably just didn't make the final cut. That battle scene was so busy. Gift and curse of a very strong supporting cast... you wanna give the supporting cast love too. But that does pull away from the lead a bit.

T'challa's supporting cast is just so damn big AND good. Stark only has Pepper, Rhodey, and Happy. Thor's was so shitty they just killed everyone and gave him Valkryie and Hulk in his third movie. Cap's cast from the first movie were all dead. Strange really only has Wong and Palmer. CM's cast is basically going to all be dead by her next solo.

Danai, Lupita, Winston, Letita, Daniel are just so damn talented that you want them to be used... and that isn't even counting MBJ... or is it counting Freeman, Bassett, Forrest Whitaker, Sherling, and the Kani's

The sequel does have a choice to make on the supporting cast. Zuri is dead so he's gone. W'kabi is in prison so you don't HAVE to bring him back for anything meaningful. Freeman played his part and I don't really need him back either. Don't need to see the dead ancestors anymore. That does narrow things down a bit and should allow more focus on t'challa while still giving the Okoye/Nakia/Shuri/M'baku plenty to do.

For the record, I am not that worried about the suit or the action. They will get around it just fine most likely. If I am "worried" about anything (which I'm not really, just having fun discussion) is BP2 allowing T'chadwick to lead the movie and refocus on him a bit more.

Oh, and I am worried about what the new suit is gonna look like lol. Gotta have a new suit... Black James Bond gotta stay hip with the times! Gotta sell that merch! Are we getting those gold accents???

I remember reading on different forums (during post-production) that one of the issues was how long the fight scenes were. At least according to those who claimed sources. This was months before the film was released. Apparently some of the fights were really drawn out in comparison to the film.

Coogler sort of went with a better version of Phantom Menace "three fights at once". Although the main fight in PM was done better.

I think in the sequel there shouldn't be any cross cutting. Just give us BP and the villain going at it.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Maaaan, bro i wouldn't lie, I LOVE that ish lol. Mind you, i say that within the context of it being a low-budget b-movie show. But hey, take away the goofy crouching tiger hidden dragon aerodynamics and just focus on the hand to hand, and them actors/actresses still fight better and put on a better show than pretty much ANYONE in the MCU!

Only ones that compares off top is Cap vs Batroc/GSP, Cap vs Buck highway scene, and T'Challa vs Erik waterfalls, and those are enhanced because of the cinematic feel of epic music, lighting, and heavy stakes. I know Chad learned like a million different martial arts but for me it's less of what you know and more of what you can show without a billion different camera splices (looking at you Natasha). The women, lil kids, and fat dudes in badlands put on a better show and the camera largely sits on them the entire time. That's what made Okoye's scene in casino stand out; the camera sat on her the whole time and she choregraphed it without any camera cuts. If they're gonna make a Shang Chi movie successful, then they better teach (or allow) their actors to fight for more than 2 second cuts!

With the DD netflix stuff, that's how i'd want to see a depowered T'Challa fight tbh lol, forcing his way out of a compromised Wakandan embassy (or fight in the casino in BP 1). But for powered T'Challa with suit, I'd expect him to walk through that like lightwork. Now yea, if it was a super soldier'd Kraven or Taskmaster, now we're talking but it goes back to I expect my super soldiers to super solder! A fight between BP and one of those two in an Embassy should continue to the rooftops and damn near across the city. And with either of those two, I expect the choregraphy to be on point! I also think with those guys, you can implement that stuff you said here:



because it would be more their cup of tea. But i'd want that in addition to their choreography blended with their super soldier'ness. I think BP's suit is only an issue if the writers lack creativity and are too small scale. There's more than enough mid to high level villains to mess with BP, or mess with the public and force BP into tough decisions. They shouldn't hold back like they didn't hold back with Carol flying through spaceships lol. Literally someone like Tiger Shark should be the new goon level for BP, bc Gary ain't it!



I don't think ppl grasp the ramifications of him being able to do that lol

Aaron's BP would one-shot Coates entire season 1 storyline in like... a day? 2 days tops?



BP does have the GOAT supporting cast, which is a blessing and a curse. For instance, it would be a waste to drop the W'Kabi storyline; esp after they cut his scene with Okoye that arguably was one of the best acted in the film.

I'm not worried about the action, and I don't find the suit to be too powerful (i lowkey think it's the best thing to happen to him lol), i'm more so cautiously excited for the action in BP2. Because i think it's obvious to everyone that the action (when not depowered), the cgi (always problematic for marvel) and T'Challa (similar to Steve pre-TWS) seem to be the most obvious or constant critics for improvement by most. I'm pretty sure Coogler is well aware. I'm hoping they make the action and fight scenes similar to Cap 2, and less of whatever they always do with Black Widow. Cast a UFC fighter or boxer to pose as a super powered goon, like they did with Cap (GSP)!

Crouching Tiger is GOAT level stuff



This would have like 3 or 4 cuts in a MCU film.

Its going to be interesting to see how they handle fights in BP2.

On one hand you could feel which were the ones Ryan was comfortable with (Casino/Waterfall) however those superhero fights....not quite.

I also think Ryan's long take style backfired on the CGI fights. Cause they were adapting his style(pre-vis team), but with not the right quality.

If that BP/KM falling and mine double blast were cut it up like other MCU movies it wouldn't have landed as bad. Cause they simple would have chose the best cutups and land its impact.

I think he'll find the right balance in the sequel. However, I do like that he's trying to be innovative as well.