Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[MindofShadow]

Concept is amazing. Just a tad too rubbery. I think that has to do with Marvel liking flat ass lighting as well.

Notice the contrast between T'Challa in that GIF compared to Black Dwarf gif. He looks more solid.

Russo's photography isn't nearly as creative (guess they were saving it for Thor's entrance), but it doesn't look like a CG model.

I want not only the GOAT superhero movie, but GOAT action movie. It can be done! C'mon BP2!!!

I like it. The cinematography is fresh looking. Camera didn't cut, good use of slo-mo, i'm down.

All of T'challa's moments fighting in IW were blink and you miss it completely.

[Mike_Murdock]

If BP had a AAA video game with a chargeable force push ability...

all that the little kids are gonna want to do is charge up the force push and blow everything up, or All Might Smash super punch everything... because of course that's all they're gonna want to do.

I wouldn't be shocked if Black Panther can Force Push in Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

[DigiCom]

Here the question that needs to be asked what if the more reliant on tech version of character is better?

The question isn't how much tech, or whether the character is better with or without it. The question is "how likely is the writer to fall into the same classic traps?"

To whit:

Trap #1: The One Trick Pony. A character gets a new power/gadget, and the stories rely on it to the exclusion of all else. The textbook example of this would be our old friend, the Force Push. Thanks to TNC's fetish for it, T'Challa forgot almost all of his other abilities, to the point where he couldn't escape from ordinary vines because he didn't use his CLAWS.

Trap #2: The Deus Ex Technica. A character pulls out a new power/gadget out of nowhere that just HAPPENS to enable them to win. There's no setup, no introduction, no indication that the reader could guess it would get used. It just is. The "vibranium lightsaber" while visually cool, is something of an example of this, although the classic one is 1960's Batman, and his Utility Belt of Bat-Holding.

To me, the trick is to strike a balance. It may not be a coincidence that the best model for this is the James Bond films. Yes, he sometimes had too many gadgets, but with very few exceptions we always saw them introduced beforehand, usually by Q. Less ass-pull, more Chekhov's Gun.

But what do I know…?

[XPac]

Dark Phoenix's Alexandra Shipp Doesn't Think 'Storm Needs T'Challa' https://buff.ly/2uDVuNA #DarkPhoenix #BlackPanther

She wants Storm to have her own movie... which is understandable (though honestly that might be wishful thinking).

Apparently at one point she actually had a pitch for the characters to do a movie together.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...re-the-screen/

[XPac]

The question isn't how much tech, or whether the character is better with or without it. The question is "how likely is the writer to fall into the same classic traps?"

To whit:

Trap #1: The One Trick Pony. A character gets a new power/gadget, and the stories rely on it to the exclusion of all else. The textbook example of this would be our old friend, the Force Push. Thanks to TNC's fetish for it, T'Challa forgot almost all of his other abilities, to the point where he couldn't escape from ordinary vines because he didn't use his CLAWS.

Trap #2: The Deus Ex Technica. A character pulls out a new power/gadget out of nowhere that just HAPPENS to enable them to win. There's no setup, no introduction, no indication that the reader could guess it would get used. It just is. The "vibranium lightsaber" while visually cool, is something of an example of this, although the classic one is 1960's Batman, and his Utility Belt of Bat-Holding.

To me, the trick is to strike a balance. It may not be a coincidence that the best model for this is the James Bond films. Yes, he sometimes had too many gadgets, but with very few exceptions we always saw them introduced beforehand, usually by Q. Less ass-pull, more Chekhov's Gun.

But what do I know…?

I think that's the actual difference between legitimate world building and simply generate one-off tech feats. The later is still nice... but ultimately it just adds to the ever growing pile of forgotten about Wakandan tech.

It's cool that Aaron gave Iron Man and T'Challa the solar flare... but it was such a one off gadget that they didn't even bother using it later in the story when they easily could have. The light saber is fun... light sabers always are. But it wasn't given a name or an introduction or even a one panel explanation of what it is or what it does. And that's in contrast to how Aaron handled Blades gear upgrade, Boy THing. We're given a name, an understanding of what it is and where it came from, and we're seeing it used repeatedly in the book. That's how you do a gear upgrade right. It's not pulling stuff out of your magical Batman utility belt... it's proper world building.

It's why Priest gear was able to stick around, and why the Force push, like it or not (I have some reservations about it), I think will stick around.

[Blind Wedjat]

Here the question that needs to be asked what if the more reliant on tech version of character is better? What if the Superman who use his heat vision more is better?. The big point is they are things that get better when you move away from what it is supposed to "traditional" be. Now I am not suggestion a drastic change nor do I think Marvel is going to move Black Panther far out of box is currently in but I hate fear of progressing characters in shared universe. It is why you have Hawkeye and Black Widow running around in spandex and BP and Iron Man with nano tech armor. If you put universal consistent rules fine stick character in one space and leave them BUT you have the most technological advance nation and the smartest man in that nation and one of the smartest men in the world. Yet people running around with better tech than him and character occasion uses better tech only to mysteriously forget he has them just to keep him as Captain america level character .I would like to pass on that thinking give me the over power tech God Black Panther.

I can live with the Superman version Black Panther where most fights he wins it is pre gone conclusion that he will win and it is just a matter of how he decides to win is the interesting part. Quite honestly Black panther suit is better Kryptonite than Kryptonite because being damage easily lowers him back to "normal" BP where he would just have to use his intelligence and fighting skills to win. "The problem" you are talking about is as simple Hulk,Thor and Sentry level opponents now being his primary competition and also fighting against Dr Doom, Kang, Ultron, Annihilus level villains. If that is problem I am fine with Black Panther can also work as extreme power fantasy too.

Me personally I see Black Panther as the ultimate swiss army knife character he has near the best tech, He is near the best fighter and he also has sort of esoteric stuff like shadow physics, king of dead and spear of bashenga. So he is a triple threat and best prepared hero to fight any kind of threat. That is black panther niche to me ,Dr Strange in situation where he can't use Magic is near useless, Captain America is situation where he has to use pure intelligence is near useless, Tony Stark in a situation where he has to physical fight is near useless. Everyone those situations Black Panther excels that is why the character is OP. They shouldn't be afraid to upgrade anything for him because you can always take away his suit( or limit its functions) if you need to real focus on his other areas. It is creativity of writer you can write him with no suit,fighting skills and intelligence(See Prodigy great book), You can write with him no suit,fighting skills and esoteric stuff( See Peter canon also surprisingly a good book), You can write him with a tech suit and fighting skills( See Deathstroke), Every approach would be interesting I don't think there should be too much of a worry of BP to go to far in one direction. I think they realize his flexibility is his strength.

I don't think your Superman analogy works well. For starters, Superman traditionally has the heat vision ability (it's not always been there but it's tradition). It's something he is known for doing when he wants or needs to. My understanding is that he doesn't always use it right out the gate is because it can be lethal? That goes against the core value of the character, right? You see why it doesn't work?

It's not the same thing as T'Challa using more devastating tech as a default. T'Challa's traditional "default setting" (if you will) isn't reliant on tech. If we accept Priest's take as the definitive one (most people do), he made a specific point to mention that T'Challa could build an Iron Man suit if he wanted to. This is something T'Challa directly to Stark. He doesn't go beyond that statement to give the "why", but I'm guessing it would have been "Unlike you Stark, I don't rely on technology to achieve my goals" (because Priest T'Challa was that savage).

Yes, characters like Captain America, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Daredevil, Shang-Chi, Iron Fist and so one would probably be way more efficient heroes if they had the SSS and an Iron Man suit, or if they could become Doctor Strange level mystics. But at the end of the day comic book characters have niches. Black Widow's no longer a spy/assassin with an Iron Man suit, Iron Fist is no longer that traditional master martial artist with the SSS, and Hawkeye doesn't need to be a master marksman with spells.

T'Challa can fall into the same trap without the creativity of a good writer. This is where Coates book and additions lost a lot of us, but either way the chances become increased the more technology we want. I don't think most of the ones suggested lately are that bad and there are some I'd love to see across media. I just think they need to first fall in line with his niche and characterisation and second be able to do things he can't do with his powers and skills.

But really, all we've been talking about is natural progression of the character, right? In my opinion the greatest thing that has failed T'Challa in this aspect isn't that he's not using more tech. It's that his powers haven't progressed. This is why King of the Dead and Shadow Physics have largely been a failures to me, because most of the additions haven't stuck or don't matter (or are quite lame). KotD increasing his stats, perception of his senses beyond the physical plane, allowing him to tap into memories of past BPs, enter the ancestral plane (and take people there like BP vs DP only for real). Shadow Physics is even worse because I have no idea how it's supposed to work in universe or what alchemy was meant to be like, but I would have it as some physics/tech/alchemy/mysticism hybrid that should have informed his gear or used to upgrade it.

[Blind Wedjat]

The question isn't how much tech, or whether the character is better with or without it. The question is "how likely is the writer to fall into the same classic traps?"

To whit:

Trap #1: The One Trick Pony. A character gets a new power/gadget, and the stories rely on it to the exclusion of all else. The textbook example of this would be our old friend, the Force Push. Thanks to TNC's fetish for it, T'Challa forgot almost all of his other abilities, to the point where he couldn't escape from ordinary vines because he didn't use his CLAWS.

Trap #2: The Deus Ex Technica. A character pulls out a new power/gadget out of nowhere that just HAPPENS to enable them to win. There's no setup, no introduction, no indication that the reader could guess it would get used. It just is. The "vibranium lightsaber" while visually cool, is something of an example of this, although the classic one is 1960's Batman, and his Utility Belt of Bat-Holding.

To me, the trick is to strike a balance. It may not be a coincidence that the best model for this is the James Bond films. Yes, he sometimes had too many gadgets, but with very few exceptions we always saw them introduced beforehand, usually by Q. Less ass-pull, more Chekhov's Gun.

But what do I know…?

Exactly this, and I think this may explain why the James Bond format was used in the films. Because it does fit the character and allows the tech to be introduced as their own thing by Q/Shuri while how Bond/T'Challa uses it is up to them.

[XPac]

Here the question that needs to be asked what if the more reliant on tech version of character is better? What if the Superman who use his heat vision more is better?. The big point is they are things that get better when you move away from what it is supposed to "traditional" be. Now I am not suggestion a drastic change nor do I think Marvel is going to move Black Panther far out of box is currently in but I hate fear of progressing characters in shared universe. It is why you have Hawkeye and Black Widow running around in spandex and BP and Iron Man with nano tech armor. If you put universal consistent rules fine stick character in one space and leave them BUT you have the most technological advance nation and the smartest man in that nation and one of the smartest men in the world. Yet people running around with better tech than him and character occasion uses better tech only to mysteriously forget he has them just to keep him as Captain america level character .I would like to pass on that thinking give me the over power tech God Black Panther.

I can live with the Superman version Black Panther where most fights he wins it is pre gone conclusion that he will win and it is just a matter of how he decides to win is the interesting part. Quite honestly Black panther suit is better Kryptonite than Kryptonite because being damage easily lowers him back to "normal" BP where he would just have to use his intelligence and fighting skills to win. "The problem" you are talking about is as simple Hulk,Thor and Sentry level opponents now being his primary competition and also fighting against Dr Doom, Kang, Ultron, Annihilus level villains. If that is problem I am fine with Black Panther can also work as extreme power fantasy too.

Me personally I see Black Panther as the ultimate swiss army knife character he has near the best tech, He is near the best fighter and he also has sort of esoteric stuff like shadow physics, king of dead and spear of bashenga. So he is a triple threat and best prepared hero to fight any kind of threat. That is black panther niche to me ,Dr Strange in situation where he can't use Magic is near useless, Captain America is situation where he has to use pure intelligence is near useless, Tony Stark in a situation where he has to physical fight is near useless. Everyone those situations Black Panther excels that is why the character is OP. They shouldn't be afraid to upgrade anything for him because you can always take away his suit( or limit its functions) if you need to real focus on his other areas. It is creativity of writer you can write him with no suit,fighting skills and intelligence(See Prodigy great book), You can write with him no suit,fighting skills and esoteric stuff( See Peter canon also surprisingly a good book), You can write him with a tech suit and fighting skills( See Deathstroke), Every approach would be interesting I don't think there should be too much of a worry of BP to go to far in one direction. I think they realize his flexibility is his strength.

I do agree that T"Challa has the versatility to be used in pretty much any sort of story and situation... the key is really being able to scale him properly to the appropriate power level. If he's walking around ready to take on Sentry 24/7, he becomes far less usable. He doesn't need to be in a story involving Killmonger if he's in Sentry busting mode.

If you look at Batman, here's a guy who can face the Joker on Monday in Gotham and Darkseid on Friday with the League, and it all still works. I think the key there is to have a logical streamlined but versatile basic standard toolset, but still leave the option of adding on upgrades in gear when necessary without pulling it out of thin air with no explantion. That's where better writers like Priest were able to do more with less. And it is MORE bad @$$ when he can do more with less. Anyone can win a fight be pulling a tech plot device out of thin air... but winning a fight with Windex is a whole other level of bad assery.

And that's part of the thing which makes guys like Batman and Black Panther cool. People underestimate T'Challa because they're more minimalist than guys like Stark.. I think Priest sort of made that a plot point in his run when he explained T'Challa could create armor like Stark but chose not to. It's a different approach which seperates him from some of his peers, like Stark and Reed. And I think that uniqueness helps him stand out.

The downside is it potentially does give him less tech feats, which is why I whole support him getting every single tech feat you can imagine in non-combat situations. But for the actual combat situations, I honestly prefer he keeps it as minimalistic and as standarzies as possible. But that is much harder to write... which is one of the reasons Priest is on the pedistol that hes on.

Just to be clear though... I'm not trying to say the tech out of nowhere is the worst thing in the world or that its destroying disrespecting the character or anything like that. But it's what seperates a pretty good handling of the character from a great one. There are nuances which Priest incorporated that a lot of writers don't pick up. It's why I rolled my eyes a bit when T'Challa showed up in armor, after Priests run went out of its way to explain that he could develop armor if he wanted to, but didn't need it.

[Ezyo1000]

Concept is amazing. Just a tad too rubbery. I think that has to do with Marvel liking flat ass lighting as well.

Notice the contrast between T'Challa in that GIF compared to Black Dwarf gif. He looks more solid.

Russo's photography isn't nearly as creative (guess they were saving it for Thor's entrance), but it doesn't look like a CG model.

I want not only the GOAT superhero movie, but GOAT action movie. It can be done! C'mon BP2!!!

Dude.... What? The BP GIF compared to the BD one os head and shoulders better, it's OBVIOUS that they shoehorned that in last second

[Ezyo1000]

The question isn't how much tech, or whether the character is better with or without it. The question is "how likely is the writer to fall into the same classic traps?"

To whit:

Trap #1: The One Trick Pony. A character gets a new power/gadget, and the stories rely on it to the exclusion of all else. The textbook example of this would be our old friend, the Force Push. Thanks to TNC's fetish for it, T'Challa forgot almost all of his other abilities, to the point where he couldn't escape from ordinary vines because he didn't use his CLAWS.

Trap #2: The Deus Ex Technica. A character pulls out a new power/gadget out of nowhere that just HAPPENS to enable them to win. There's no setup, no introduction, no indication that the reader could guess it would get used. It just is. The "vibranium lightsaber" while visually cool, is something of an example of this, although the classic one is 1960's Batman, and his Utility Belt of Bat-Holding.

To me, the trick is to strike a balance. It may not be a coincidence that the best model for this is the James Bond films. Yes, he sometimes had too many gadgets, but with very few exceptions we always saw them introduced beforehand, usually by Q. Less ass-pull, more Chekhov's Gun.

But what do I know…?

Slight deviation from your second example. The Vibranium lightsaber didn't allow him to win, it didn't do anything but look cool visually. Maybe a better example would of been the solar flare he and stark pulled in the previous issue.

But really I would actually say the Better examples of that would be the magical soul spear or whatever Coates is calling it, and the whole all of Wakanda praying to Storm. Both of those came out of nowhere, cane on the last issue of the story and were the biggest ass pulls and cop outs to end an already anticlimactic fight.

That's why I am on The boat of keeping the standard gear thst Priest made (with the force push being standardized) and simply add the upgrades that were made by Ewing, narcisse, Pantherjack, and JA to that existing gear.

Then thing's like thrice blessed armor
Purple boxing gloves
Doomsday panthers
N'yami motherships
And the like can be tertiary gear. It may not be the thing that gives him the win, but it can have a heavy assist and be used often enough to be remembered

[XPac]

Slight deviation from your second example. The Vibranium lightsaber didn't allow him to win, it didn't do anything but look cool visually. Maybe a better example would of been the solar flare he and stark pulled in the previous issue.

But really I would actually say the Better examples of that would be the magical soul spear or whatever Coates is calling it, and the whole all of Wakanda praying to Storm. Both of those came out of nowhere, cane on the last issue of the story and were the biggest ass pulls and cop outs to end an already anticlimactic fight.

That's why I am on The boat of keeping the standard gear thst Priest made (with the force push being standardized) and simply add the upgrades that were made by Ewing, narcisse, Pantherjack, and JA to that existing gear.

Then thing's like thrice blessed armor
Purple boxing gloves
Doomsday panthers
N'yami motherships
And the like can be tertiary gear. It may not be the thing that gives him the win, but it can have a heavy assist and be used often enough to be remembered

The spear came out of nowhere... I 100% agree that Coates didn't build up or explain that at all.

But praying to Storm was didn't come out of nowhere. That was built up in the narrative throughout the entire season.

[DigiCom]

Slight deviation from your second example. The Vibranium lightsaber didn't allow him to win, it didn't do anything but look cool visually. Maybe a better example would of been the solar flare he and stark pulled in the previous issue.

But really I would actually say the Better examples of that would be the magical soul spear or whatever Coates is calling it, and the whole all of Wakanda praying to Storm. Both of those came out of nowhere, cane on the last issue of the story and were the biggest ass pulls and cop outs to end an already anticlimactic fight.

Fair point, I tend to forget bad stories, and I don't read AVENGERS, so I went with he most recent.

[MindofShadow]

Heheh

Of all the times T'Challa has had his integrity, character, or abilities diminished by comic writers or creators, I've never seen it happen as a result of "too much tech."

I see the too much tech stuff akin to the boogey man who lived under our beds as kids. BP being punked by writers has always been the REAL monster lurking in the shadows. Whether he needs to have a lightsaber is nothing about diminishing BP and more about how many toy sales would a vibranium light saber generate at the Disney store.

This is an underrated point.

I'd imagine writers don't want to write a walking tech plot device either.

Hell, Liss probably came to closest to writing a "pull tech out of thin air" T'challa and it wasn't a detriment to the stories at all. It was a plus.

Do Spidey fans think spider-man is too teched out these days? I have no idea but that dude was gadget central for a long time...

[Agent Z]

This is an underrated point.

I'd imagine writers don't want to write a walking tech plot device either.

Hell, Liss probably came to closest to writing a "pull tech out of thin air" T'challa and it wasn't a detriment to the stories at all. It was a plus.

Do Spidey fans think spider-man is too teched out these days? I have no idea but that dude was gadget central for a long time...

The tail end of Slott's run had a number of fans calling Peter a Tony Stark rip off. A lot of fans also don't like the MCU gear.

[nj06]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but in regards to T'Challa's tech, I would like for him to keep the upgrades that Hickman provided as well including:

-vibranium gauntlets
-invisibility
-teleportation
-body shield