Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Blind Wedjat]

Huh?

They're both still separate things. T'Challa just became both of them and Killmonger specifically challenged for both of them (he knew what he was doing).

Why do you think the Merchant tribe elder lady said "Wakanda does not need a warrior right now. We need a king!"? T'Challa was acting on his BP duties instead of his kingly duties.

Am I the only one who gets this?

[XPac]

Huh?

They're both still separate things. T'Challa just became both of them and Killmonger specifically challenged for both of them (he knew what he was doing).

Why do you think the Merchant tribe elder lady said "Wakanda does not need a warrior right now. We need a king!"? T'Challa was acting on his BP duties instead of his kingly duties.

Am I the only one who gets this?

Functionally they are the same thing at this point. If Tchalla for whatever reason is out of the picture they won't have Shuri JUST be ruler while someone else is BP. Like Tchalla and Killmonger she will do both.

[Cville]

I think this is part of what the movie was trying to point out. Wakanda has a bunch of traditions for traditions sake that can be used against them by someone smart and determined enough.

Why should Killmonger just become king and Black Panther because he beat T'Challa in a fight? That's their tradition, but Killmonger did not have Wakanda in his best interests. A war with the rest of the world would have hurt them badly no matter how advanced they were. W'Kabi said as much that the world is catching up (and we can see it to be fair). But because Killmonger was of royal blood, challenged T'Challa and won, all of his commands had to be followed without question.

That's what I find interesting about how the movie ended, the way T'Challa's arc unfolded and the potential it sets up for the future. T'Challa having earned back the title of Black Panther and king of Wakanda (through combat and also having the right intentions) now has the opportunity to do something really important with the mantle outside of the tradition of "protector of Wakanda." He can turn the symbol of it into an even more powerful one with what he does for Wakanda and the rest of the world.

I think that's the direction Coogler seems to be going with. When you look at the parallels between T'Challa and Killmonger, and even T'Challa and T'Chaka, he seemed to be exploring "What does it mean to be Black Panther?"

The movie and comics tend to skip over the other trials. After beating a BP. You have to:
-Defeat Wakandas' next 6 best warriors.
-Take a verbal history test conducted by the tribal council.
-Climb an unclimbable mountain free hand without assistance to retrieve the heart shaped herb.

These are only ones I know of. But it there were a TV series, each could be given an episode.

[Blind Wedjat]

Functionally they are the same thing at this point. If Tchalla for whatever reason is out of the picture they won't have Shuri JUST be ruler while someone else is BP. Like Tchalla and Killmonger she will do both.

...

There's absolutely no guarantee that's what's gonna happen and you're only assuming that, when the evidence says otherwise. T'Chaka being king and T'Challa being BP showed they were separate, T'Challa explained to Steve and Sam how they were separate (and how he became both) and Killmonger challenged specifically for the two (he literally said I want to be king and I also want to be Black Panther). You're acting like T'Challa suddenly changed the laws because reasons, and Killmonger got the herb and the suit just because he became king.

You're also assuming for whatever reason Shuri would have been on the throne. We don't know how the line of succession works in Wakanda in the film, and even if Shuri was next in line considering T'Challa has no heirs, there's no evidence to suggest she becomes BP also.

I don't know why this needs to be discussed when it's clearly stated in the film.

[Blind Wedjat]

The movie and comics tend to skip over the other trials. After beating a BP. You have to:
-Defeat Wakandas' next 6 best warriors.
-Take a verbal history test conducted by the tribal council.
-Climb an unclimbable mountain free hand without assistance to retrieve the heart shaped herb.

These are only ones I know of. But it there were a TV series, each could be given an episode.

I bet Killmonger would have passed all of those. He seemed to know a lot about Wakanda anyway. Still, it shows that the traditions though have worked for Wakanda can be manipulated. If I'm strong enough, skilled enough and knowledgeable enough I could pass the test and retrieve the herb.

I think this is where the judgement thing worked in the comics and why it was smart to have that angle. Because at least for Wakanda physical and mental tests alone shouldn't elect a king. Bast has to judge and have the final say. Judge the person's heart and determine if they're worthy.

[XPac]

...

There's absolutely no guarantee that's what's gonna happen and you're only assuming that, when the evidence says otherwise. T'Chaka being king and T'Challa being BP showed they were separate, T'Challa explained to Steve and Sam how they were separate (and how he became both) and Killmonger challenged specifically for the two (he literally said I want to be king and I also want to be Black Panther). You're acting like T'Challa suddenly changed the laws because reasons, and Killmonger got the herb and the suit just because he became king.

You're also assuming for whatever reason Shuri would have been on the throne. We don't know how the line of succession works in Wakanda in the film, and even if Shuri was next in line considering T'Challa has no heirs, there's no evidence to suggest she becomes BP also.

I don't know why this needs to be discussed when it's clearly stated in the film.

Yes, thats my assumption. If for whatever reason Tchalla isn't Black Panther, marvel would make Shuri Black Panther. Whatever Wakandan law might be, she is the obvious choice to act as a legacy hero.

[Frontier]

T'Chaka was the previous Black Panther before T'Challa in the MCU, so even if they're separate positions it might be expected that whoever the king is is also the current Black Panther up until they abdicate one of the positions.

[Ezyo1000]

I think some of you are confusing "being trained to be BP" and "being trained to be ruler of Wakanda." The two things are different and separate in the MCU unlike the comics. When I say Shuri cannot be BP because she wasn't trained, I mean she did not receive the specific warrior/combat training T'Challa did for that role. That doesn't mean she doesn't know what to do if she's given the throne (and she most likely isn't next in line anyway). But to be fair, she has also shown no interest in the throne so she may not have been groomed for it. But for sure she was not trained to be Black Panther. Which is why I said Shuri would have to redefine what the Black Panther means for her to become it. She'll definitely be more reliant on tech than combat skills or powers (kinda like the comics to be fair). And that's why I suggested Okoye or Nakia would make more sense to be BP's: they have similar training to fit that role. I never said Okoye becoming BP equals her becoming Queen of Wakanda. That's ridiculous because she's not of royal blood.

I don't think that is true for Okoye. K think you can challenge for both. As for challenge day all tribe's could send a warrior to fight for the throne and title. And Nakia was trying to give Okoye the hsh. I think anyone could possibly become ruler Wakanda and BP.

But Shuri isnt ready for either, which is fine

[Jabare]

Forest Whitaker asked if any member of royal blood wished to challenge for the throne.

[XPac]

T'Chaka was the previous Black Panther before T'Challa in the MCU, so even if they're separate positions it might be expected that whoever the king is is also the current Black Panther up until they abdicate one of the positions.

I think the BP mantle and throne were seperated in the MCU out of convenience. They wanted to use T'Chaka's murder without necessarily waiting for T'Challa to grow up and become the king and the Black Panther.

And in the same way the two elements were combined out of convenience, I think they will only be separated out of convenience. If something were to happen to T'Challa, and they wanted 2 separate individuals to be ruler and BLack Panther, then they'd have the roles act independently.

But I just don't see why they would bother. IF they're going to have another ruler of Wakanda aside from T'CHalla, it probably should be Shuri. And IF they want another Black Panther, again it probably should be Shuri. Maybe Ramonda can act as a regent until they feel Shuri is ready, but ultimately she's still the best and only option apart from T'Challa himself. Why would they use anyone else?

[Cville]

]I think the BP mantle and throne were seperated in the MCU out of convenience[/B]. They wanted to use T'Chaka's murder without necessarily waiting for T'Challa to grow up and become the king and the Black Panther.

And in the same way the two elements were combined out of convenience, I think they will only be separated out of convenience. If something were to happen to T'Challa, and they wanted 2 separate individuals to be ruler and BLack Panther, then they'd have the roles act independently.

But I just don't see why they would bother. IF they're going to have another ruler of Wakanda aside from T'CHalla, it probably should be Shuri. And IF they want another Black Panther, again it probably should be Shuri. Maybe Ramonda can act as a regent until they feel Shuri is ready, but ultimately she's still the best and only option apart from T'Challa himself. Why would they use anyone else?

Or they read a Priest comic. Killmonger was BP and Tchalla was at the same time. He even insisted that Tchalla handle a situation involving the death of his pet I think.

[MindofShadow]

Huh?

They're both still separate things. T'Challa just became both of them and Killmonger specifically challenged for both of them (he knew what he was doing).

Why do you think the Merchant tribe elder lady said "Wakanda does not need a warrior right now. We need a king!"? T'Challa was acting on his BP duties instead of his kingly duties.

Am I the only one who gets this?

No, i thought it was clear.

The "how to be BP" thing isnt 100% clear (basically is if fought for or the king gives the position) but e eryhing else is rather clear.

Some people are forgetting things and others are being purposefully dense just to argue and be unfans lol

[XPac]

Or they read a Priest comic. Killmonger was BP and Tchalla was at the same time. He even insisted that Tchalla handle a situation involving the death of his pet I think.

Even in Priests comic, the mantle of Black Panther and Wakandan ruler was only seperate out of convenience for whatever story is being told at the time. Both roles were meant for T'Challa, so in a functional sense there's no real distinction as the same person did both.

And IF the MCU hypothetically speaking decided T'Challa was out of the picture for whatever reason, IMO I think Shuri would likewise be the person to wear both hats. Even if you could give the role to someone else, who would you give it to and why? Apart from Ramonda being a regent to run things till Shuri is ready, I think Shuri frankly is the most logical person to take both roles. So again, functionally I don't think there needs to be any sort of distinction.

COurse, we're speaking in theory here. Maybe Coogler doesn't want Shuri as a replacement if T'Challa leaves and he'll shut her out. Who knows. I'll simply say I believe she's the best alternate, if an alternate to T'Challa is needed, at least as we speak.

[Jabare]

Nate Moore, we appreciate the effort. I'd have loved a bigger role in End Game too

[DigiCom]

Going to step away from the Net for a while. See you when Endgame drops, my brothers.