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  1. #4861
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Yes, future. No, not back yet.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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  2. #4862
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Link to the preview. Nothing worth posting the scans for. Website got confussed with the end of the first arc #12, but scroll down for next weeks issue.

    http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...-panther-12-2/

  3. #4863
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I agree with alot of the stuff here too, however, they really don't give Hudlin he due credit like they should. Or really dive into the importance of Hudlin's Wakanda, because unlike the previous versions, Hudlin's Wakanda was the only version that was truly the idealic rendition of ab African nation. It's one thing that always bugs me when people talk about BP. They will praise Priest (obviously) McGregor , Lee and Kirby, but never really give Hudlin (or Liss for that matter) their due credit for what they did. Without Priest we don't have the MCU T'Challa we got, however, without Hudlin, we don't have the Wakanda, Shuri, or the Doras we got in the MCU either. So both deserve their credit
    Reginald Hudlin has always been the underappreciated by a number of readers for whatever personal reasons but at the end of the day, his solid world building work on the mythos is what made T'Challa so compelling and Wakanda as an intellectual concept, central to the MCU.

    Haters will stay hating regardless.
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  4. #4864
    Mario Di Giacomo Beware Of Geek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Yeah and the worst is, they try to act like his run didn't happen to some extent. You read articles about must read bp series, and of course you get Priest, and then they even try to act like Coates bullisht run is on par with Priests or Hudlin's while minimizing Hudlin's also legendary run. You can't have one without the other and you can't have MCU BP mythos without both of them
    I also find their statements regarding how well the comic is selling compared to the Priest era ill-informed, as our very own MoS has shown conclusively (in the process proving once again that relaunches do more damage than good in the long run)
    Mario Di Giacomo

  5. #4865
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beware Of Geek View Post
    I also find their statements regarding how well the comic is selling compared to the Priest era ill-informed, as our very own MoS has shown conclusively (in the process proving once again that relaunches do more damage than good in the long run)
    quick maths tell me BP11 (aprils issue) is the 36th issue of Coates run and sold 20,572

    Priest 36th issue sold 21,105

    Hudlin's 36th issue sold 20,835



    And just to circumvent "but but..." arguments, they all had their pro and cons and reasons for whatever numbers they hit. It is impossible to decide which had the most successful 36th issue.

    - Priest was in a era of better comic sales overall, but had to revive a dead character, got no help from tie ins, got no help from relaunches, no cartoons, no movies, no merch.

    - Hudlin was able to piggy back off Priest a bit (BP wasn't completely dead as a character) and was able to use his name and influence to push BP into event tie ins, big marriage, but got no renumbering help, Hudlin did his own cartoon himself, no movie, no merch, and also dealt with priest bp fans going "not muh t'challa" and Xmen fans being butthurt by everything

    - Coates was able to piggyback of 5 years of hickman writing the character in one of the biggest marvel stories in a long time, the biggest mass media push of BP ever with movies, cartoons, and merch everywhere, 2 renumbering/relaunches, the most support from editorial ever, but alos peaked higher than any writer by far, is in a much more dire comic market, skyvolts trade sales, and digital comics being a big thing.


    Did I get everything?

    At the same time though... scoreboard lol. Ball don't lie
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  6. #4866
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Coates average issue is 45,500ish in sales

    If you throw out his renumbering issues, it drops to 36,600ish in sales per issue

    For reference, the issues hudlin wrote (so throwing out SWAD and Power) average 37,100ish in sales per issue

    Now, that isn't completely fair obviously, but it is wild how much marketing gimmicks power Coates sales.
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 05-26-2019 at 08:56 AM.
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  7. #4867
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    Reginald Hudlin has always been the underappreciated by a number of readers for whatever personal reasons but at the end of the day, his solid world building work on the mythos is what made T'Challa so compelling and Wakanda as an intellectual concept, central to the MCU.

    Haters will stay hating regardless.
    Exactly, I mean it goes without saying that Hudlin is the one who not o myself had the most financially successful run, but also put Tchalla and Wakanda on the map as majors players, showed an unapologetic Black man and black nation, showed how badass T'Challa and Wakanda was and highlighted Priest also legendary run.

    There are huge aspects From Hudlin we see in the mcu. If Priest run was supposed to be the main course for mcu inspired T'Challa then Hudlins run is the sides to make up the rest of the meal



    Quote Originally Posted by Beware Of Geek View Post
    I also find their statements regarding how well the comic is selling compared to the Priest era ill-informed, as our very own MoS has shown conclusively (in the process proving once again that relaunches do more damage than good in the long run)
    You know, i do t even believe Coates run is the most financially successful. Maybe initial sales for the first half of s1 but after that it declines pretty fast and is heavily propped up by Marvel. The same can't be said for Priest and Hudlin's in which it was of their own doing as marvel was less involved in insuring those runs stayed above cancel range, or hell above 30k

  8. #4868
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Coates average issue is 45,500ish in sales

    If you throw out his renumbering issues, it drops to 36,600ish in sales per issue

    For reference, the issues hudlin wrote (so throwing out SWAD and Power) average 37,100ish in sales per issue

    Now, that isn't completely fair obviously, but it is wild how much marketing gimmicks power Coates sales.
    Well damn in comes MoS dropping all sorts of Vibranium nuggets. That's kinda been my thought. People look at Coates initial run, the first 5 or 6 issues and go "See, Coates has the most successful run to date!" Without looking at the larger picture. I guarantee you, if Priest or Hudlin's runs came now when Coates run did, with all the support he is getting now? I think they would be surpassing Coates and maybe averaging 45k without the gimmicks Coates run relies on.

  9. #4869
    Incredible Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Well damn in comes MoS dropping all sorts of Vibranium nuggets. That's kinda been my thought. People look at Coates initial run, the first 5 or 6 issues and go "See, Coates has the most successful run to date!" Without looking at the larger picture. I guarantee you, if Priest or Hudlin's runs came now when Coates run did, with all the support he is getting now? I think they would be surpassing Coates and maybe averaging 45k without the gimmicks Coates run relies on.
    Agreed, it goes without saying that those sales numbers are misleading to the quality and deliberation of the writing for the actual character focus.

  10. #4870
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Coates average issue is 45,500ish in sales

    If you throw out his renumbering issues, it drops to 36,600ish in sales per issue

    For reference, the issues hudlin wrote (so throwing out SWAD and Power) average 37,100ish in sales per issue

    Now, that isn't completely fair obviously, but it is wild how much marketing gimmicks power Coates sales.
    The only one who didn't really use marketing gimmicks of some sort was Christopher Priest (unless you count the Marvel Knights label). Reginald Hudlin was in an era when tie-ins to events actually boosted sales, so he benefited from Civil War. He had one relaunch along the way but with a clear change in status quo. Coates has had one relaunch, but a second renumbering (Marvel Legacy). The relaunch at least had a change in status quo, the renumbering was for no reason at all. He's avoided events so far, but that's probably a good thing since people are more likely to drop a book if they're not following the event.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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  11. #4871
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Is Shuri, Miles, and RiRi a good idea for new team?

  12. #4872
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    The only one who didn't really use marketing gimmicks of some sort was Christopher Priest (unless you count the Marvel Knights label). Reginald Hudlin was in an era when tie-ins to events actually boosted sales, so he benefited from Civil War. He had one relaunch along the way but with a clear change in status quo. Coates has had one relaunch, but a second renumbering (Marvel Legacy). The relaunch at least had a change in status quo, the renumbering was for no reason at all. He's avoided events so far, but that's probably a good thing since people are more likely to drop a book if they're not following the event.
    He did relaunch with a new character. He just didnt change the numbering.

  13. #4873
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    The only one who didn't really use marketing gimmicks of some sort was Christopher Priest (unless you count the Marvel Knights label). Reginald Hudlin was in an era when tie-ins to events actually boosted sales, so he benefited from Civil War. He had one relaunch along the way but with a clear change in status quo. Coates has had one relaunch, but a second renumbering (Marvel Legacy). The relaunch at least had a change in status quo, the renumbering was for no reason at all. He's avoided events so far, but that's probably a good thing since people are more likely to drop a book if they're not following the event.
    I mean, I said all that above.

    I don't really consider tieing into events a "gimmick" since it actually has a story involved. But I did mention it boosts sales. He also had xmen crossovers, marriage, f4 crossover stuff. But, agian at least those have stories

    One thing to consider with Hudlin's renumbering is that it came after 41? issues with a rebrand. (priest basically had a rebrand at issue 50). Coates first renumbering came after 18 issues and then got another one 6 issues later.

    It is just weird people act like Coates is still a sales juggernaut. His season 1 was a sales beast (73K avg). After that, it sold less than hudlin (31,800) and was priest level if you throw out the renumbering gimmick issues (27K)
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 05-26-2019 at 11:03 AM.
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  14. #4874
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Is Shuri, Miles, and RiRi a good idea for new team?
    No, because Shuri and RiRi are redundant now.

    Shuri, Miles, Kamala is better. Or Sam nova (is he still around?)
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  15. #4875
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    No, because Shuri and RiRi are redundant now.

    Shuri, Miles, Kamala is better. Or Sam nova (is he still around?)
    I think he's still try to get his Nova powers back.

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