Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[MindofShadow]

I can see your point here and in many ways I can agree. But if Wakandans are Wakandan first then I think it’s a bit distasteful for them to not realize that they are also Africans, second and Black People third. Isolationism may have kept them safe and hidden from the world and it’s horrors, but while they advanced and used their Vibranium privilege(yes it is privilege, they didn’t earn it, they were just lucky enough to be born on that rock as you said) to further their own society, everyone else who looked like them was being enslaved, tortured, and demonized the world over. So at what point does self preservation just become self involvement? And beyond that a Nation-State with deeply engrained cultural xenophobia?

How would that look in the real world? Would we as non-Wakandan born. Black people support really a country like that? That had the power to aid so much suffering and chose not to? Genuine questions that I ask myself as a fan of the BP franchise and I think others should as well. The movie did a great job making Killmonger a sympathetic villain for this very reason.

Wakanda doesn't care if you like Wakanda lol. The don't care if "we" non Wakandan black people give a **** about them. Just like I am pretty sure "insert real life African nation" gives a **** about the opinion of me, Florida black man, cares about them. They don't care if USA likes them, they don't care if China likes then, they don't care if Nigeria likes them, they don't care if Azania, Niganda, Atlantis, ect likes them.

Wakanda is supposed to be weird. If that meteor lands in Britain, they are using it to conquer the known world. That meteor lands in Japan, they are going to use to spread their empire. If the meteor lands in Rawanda, they either use it to conquer or they get that **** stolen by "insert nation" and they use it to conquer. Any "real" nation uses the magic rock to conquer or be conquered for it.

Wakanda is weird because they got the super meteor and just went, "cool, leave us alone, " and defended the hell out of their land and hid.

The movie did make Killmonger somewhat sympathetic... but Wakanda isn't supposed to be perfect. Wakanda is a "utopia" for Wakandans. Whether that is right or not is up to the reader. comic T'challa helps. MCU T'challa was unsure what to do and ended up being convinced to help (it was huge he even considered it as a king, it wasn't even looked at as an option from what we saw of T'chaka).

"Should we help anyone else' is central to every "super power" in the world. Wakanda shouldn't be exempt for that just because it feeds into some mythical "black/africans are different" narrative.

Wakanda is so painfully isolationist because that is the story writers want to tell. It's a narrative tool to prop up T'Challa and make his attempts to be a global hero all the more powerful. The king of a hidden country trying to do good for the whole world has a much better thematic touch than a king of a nation that has always been open doing the same. It's not supposed to make a bunch of sense, it's supposed to highlight T'Challa and his attempts to reverse that ideology. Same goes for most superhero kings like Aquaman and Black Bolt, that duality is there to make them more interesting characters.

And since we've moved on from Wakanda's debut I'd argue T'challa has made a decent degree of progress. Other books have referenced Wakanda trading with the outside world, characters from other franchises have studied in the Golden City, Wakandan schools have appeared at international schooling events, etc. There's still a lot of progress to be made but at the end of the day, Wakandan isolationism is intrinsic to the mythos because it's what makes T'challa more compelling and therefore will never be fully extinguished.

And from a more meta standpoint, Wakanda's isolationism is supposed to be the inversion of actual African history. So rather than having been conquered and exploited by European powers, Wakanda prospered in isolation and surpassed them in technological and spiritual knowledge. I highly doubt that the pan-African notion of Wakandans helping other Africans factored into the mind of Stan Lee when he first developed the concept so Wakanda exists in that awkward middleground where black folks admire its accomplishments but are left wondering why they didn't do more. iirc, Hudlin touched on this by having Wakanda do some covert work during the Atlantic slave trade. And didn't Coates have Wakanda meeting and arming African Americans (DOS) to support their communities in The Crew? It could be argued that they could've done more (though I doubt 18th century Wakanda could stop a slave trade happening on the other side of the continent) but it's not like they did absolutely nothing.

Nicely said.

People forget that T'challa is the character here, not "Wakanda." Wakandans exist to prop up and tell stories for T'challa. This whole thing revolves around T'challa. Too many people think T'challa is the stepping stone instead of the top of the mountain here

[MindofShadow]

"whispers" "my sources" "rumors"

It is way too early for this unless Fiege is lying about how far Coogler is. This is just made up **** throwing on "big" name out in Namor and then throwing one obscure name out, so this website can get clout for going "we called it!" if they end up right... ignoring all the BS they probably posted.


Oh and give me the MCU formula all day and twice on Sunday. I want the spectacle. Coogler proved he can write a "real" story inside the spectacle. Give me more of that. Give me 50 movies more of it.

[Blind Wedjat]

I'll admit my comment on spectacle is probably because of Endgame. Just seeing that movie be what it is and be that huge has exhausted me emotionally in a way. I need a breather lol.

Wasn't meant to be a dig at Coogler or the MCU. Of course I love that stuff.

[Ezyo1000]

What I want is for Coogler to do what he did the first time, make it authentic, put as much effort as he did in the first one. Difference now would be to have more time to clean up the final product a little more. But that's minor stuff. I also want Namor and Doom to stay all the hell away from BP 2 unless they are coming to take a claw to the face and die. Otherwise this is for BP based villains to shine

[XPac]

Another possible villain might be Kraven (who could in theory be the muscle for Zanda if muscle was needed).

Coogler has stated he wanted Kraven for the first movie but was told he couldn't use him. But in theory, it's possible the political landscape might have changed so that Coogler has more stroke to get the characters he wants. If he still wants him and if he can use him and if he works in whateve story he wants to tell. Lots of if's there.

[stormstan]

Storm under Coates is a Creator's Pet. End of discussion.

I suggest anyone who doesn't understand that find and read the thread about it.

Where is the thread?

[nj06]

Zanda and Achebe would be great choices for BP villains. Zenzi and Tetu would also be cool IMO. I would like a more mystical aspect so I think the Lion God would be a great foe/villain as well:

[XPac]

Zanda and Achebe would be great choices for BP villains. Zenzi and Tetu would also be cool IMO. I would like a more mystical aspect so I think the Lion God would be a great foe/villain as well:

I'd actually be curious to know if Bast and Hathor are gods in the MCU (if they ever show up in the MCU that is), or if they're just advanced aliens like the Asgardians.

[Dariel81]

It's Clear Moses Magnum should be The Main Villian with Achebe assistance...

[nj06]

I'd actually be curious to know if Bast and Hathor are gods in the MCU (if they ever show up in the MCU that is), or if they're just advanced aliens like the Asgardians.

I also want to know this as well. I feel like the MCU might lean towards the advanced aliens vibe, but it would be awesome if they were revealed to be actual Gods.

[BlackClaw]

Makes you wonder who should be the voice of Bast. Maybe Cree Summer? She can come up with intimidating sounding voices sometimes.

[Cville]

Makes you wonder who should be the voice of Bast. Maybe Cree Summer? She can come up with intimidating sounding voices sometimes.

Phylicia Rashad is the only choice. Mother of a generation. lol

[XPac]

I also want to know this as well. I feel like the MCU might lean towards the advanced aliens vibe, but it would be awesome if they were revealed to be actual Gods.

Given they never really addressed Bast in the first movie, it definately leaves a lot to explore in the second if they choose to. Part of me hopes they inteionally didn't touch it so they can give it some real focus for the sequal. THe heart shaped herb is destroyed, so maybe that somehow will lead to a greater exploration of Basts connnection to BP.

[nj06]

Makes you wonder who should be the voice of Bast. Maybe Cree Summer? She can come up with intimidating sounding voices sometimes.

Iman might be a good choice.

[nj06]

Given they never really addressed Bast in the first movie, it definately leaves a lot to explore in the second if they choose to. Part of me hopes they inteionally didn't touch it so they can give it some real focus for the sequal. THe heart shaped herb is destroyed, so maybe that somehow will lead to a greater exploration of Basts connnection to BP.

I hope the HSH isn't gone for good. I think it's a weak plot-point to pursue just because I feel like someone in Wakanda should have thought about keeping some extra stock of it somewhere else.