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  1. #6076
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Eh, I understand the sentiment but BP won.

    Yes, he should have stomped Skull, but at least he came through with his promise to tear his face off lol.

    I forgive John for making it such a close fight just because of the brutality of it. Him breaking his face is rather iconic and really the only thing people remember. I honestly can't think of many more iconic fight moments than that for T'challa.
    The problem is that it wasn't just a close fight... you can make an arguement that without Falcons birds interfering Skull actually would have won. Despite T'Challa wearing his vibranium suit minus the gloves, Skull arguably actually had T'Challa beat until Falcons birds came for the assist.

    It was a memorable fight to be sure ... but it was frankly a much better showing for the Skull despite the loss. While it's understandable a writer should make the villain the threat and the hero the underdog, it didn't necessarily do T'Challa any favors.

  2. #6077
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    for those that don't own Nintendo Switch the Wakanda scenes start at 57 minutes in
    The J-man

    I post via my phone a lot, therefore I make the occasional grammatical error. Not an excuse just forewarning you. Feel free to call me out I won't mind.

  3. #6078
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Problem with T'challa's fight scenes is that he hasn't never been seen as an a list property so he doesn't get A list writers which means he doesn't get A list comic artists.

    Look at the recent run with Acuna. That art was beautiful. Unfortunately wasted on smashing goons instead of having an epic fight with symbiote Killmonger.

    Only time T'challa has gotten the A list writer/A lister artist combo was New Avengers with Hickman. Unfortunately, that run was designed for the Illuminati to take L's so we never got any memorable victory moments. There were some cool fights (namor, god doom, that batman rip off for instance) but not victories

    Hopefully aaron's run culminates in something good since the solo is a waste.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  4. #6079
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Problem with T'challa's fight scenes is that he hasn't never been seen as an a list property so he doesn't get A list writers which means he doesn't get A list comic artists.

    Look at the recent run with Acuna. That art was beautiful. Unfortunately wasted on smashing goons instead of having an epic fight with symbiote Killmonger.

    Only time T'challa has gotten the A list writer/A lister artist combo was New Avengers with Hickman. Unfortunately, that run was designed for the Illuminati to take L's so we never got any memorable victory moments. There were some cool fights (namor, god doom, that batman rip off for instance) but not victories

    Hopefully aaron's run culminates in something good since the solo is a waste.
    He did have John Ramita Jr. for a bit in Hudlin's run. And of course Kirby.

  5. #6080
    All-New Member Paul Muad'Dib's Avatar
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  6. #6081
    Incredible Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    T'challa was king.

    Zuri was the chief religious/spiritual dude.

    W'kabi was the leader of border security/border tribe.

    M'baku was leader of the Jabari.

    Lip Plate dude was leader of River Tribe.

    Main villain was male.

    Secondary villlain was male.


    Let's not exaggerate the opposite way.
    Not to overstate, but Zuri is dead, Wkabi deserves to be. I'm hearing how we are going to replace a black male role with a female if the position is going to be expanded in the movies.

  7. #6082
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    I'm hearing
    From who lol???
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  8. #6083
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    As much as I love that moment from Red Zone, I still haven't forgiven Johns for that poor showing against Red Skull.
    Geoff Johns has a thing for making villains very OP. For me, he often ends up making the heroes rather ineffective.

  9. #6084
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Moments as memorable as breaking Skulls' face?

    I'd only put up there:

    vs Skrulls
    whamming Mephisto

    and.... ????

    He has some more cool fights (vs IF, vs Kraven, vs Winter Soldier, vs Lady Bullseye, vs Kingpin, various vs Killmongers, various vs M'baku, vs Marvel Knights crew, vs Lt Kathy Lee, ect) but, IMO, a lot of them he takes an L, the art is meh, he wins but other means than pure fighting, its a tie, or there is nothing real memorable about it.

    He doesn't get many chances to fight an A list villain like Skull. ANd, like I said, i understand the sentiment that he should have stomped a mudhole into him, but the ending is so good it trumps the rest IMO. It is one of those iconic comic moments everyone knows. Most people don't remember the assist from Falcon lol.

    I like Red Zone though so *shrug*. Probably T'challa's only good Avengers proper story lol. Took me forever the find an affordable trade of it on amazon.
    I didn't have a problem with the fight with Skull. He had Cap's body and gives Steve a good fight in H2H. Red Zone was one of the better characterizations of BP imo.

    And if anyone thinks that BP only won because of Skull being distracted by birds, well everyone can think what they want.

  10. #6085
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I didn't have a problem with the fight with Skull. He had Cap's body and gives Steve a good fight in H2H. Red Zone was one of the better characterizations of BP imo.

    And if anyone thinks that BP only won because of Skull being distracted by birds, well everyone can think what they want.
    Skull has Steve's body, but not Steve (or T'Challa's) skill. Nor was he wearing a vibranium suit.

    It would be okay if Skull was holding his own against T'Challa... but having Skull arguably on the verge of beating him until Falcons birds made the save is where the story I think does T'Challa a bit of a diservice.

    As far as the birds go, here's the scan. People can come to whatever conclusion they want.

    8.jpg

    9.jpg

  11. #6086
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Skull has Steve's body, but not Steve (or T'Challa's) skill. Nor was he wearing a vibranium suit.

    It would be okay if Skull was holding his own against T'Challa... but having Skull arguably on the verge of beating him until Falcons birds made the save is where the story I think does T'Challa a bit of a diservice.

    As far as the birds go, here's the scan. People can come to whatever conclusion they want.

    8.jpg

    9.jpg
    That's why I said people can think what they want in clear letters. Whether Skull has Steve or BP's skill, he had a clone of Steve's body with the SS serum and he has fought and held his own against Steve. In the end both Steve and BP won decisively, with BP breaking the aforementioned Skulls' jaw literally.

  12. #6087
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    That's why I said people can think what they want in clear letters. Whether Skull has Steve or BP's skill, he had a clone of Steve's body with the SS serum and he has fought and held his own against Steve. In the end both Steve and BP won decisively, with BP breaking the aforementioned Skulls' jaw literally.
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. If Red Skull doesn't have T'Challa's skill or T'Challa's superior gear, then birds shouldn't be needed in order for T'Challa to gain the upperhand and win the fight.

    If T'Challa had removed the vibranium suit (rather than just the gloves), I could have an easier time buying Skull dominating the fight. I would't entirely agree with it, but it would be an easier pill to swallow. Course, it would be stupid to remove the suit... but just saying that makes the fight more believable if you actually want Skull winning against a more skilled opponent.

  13. #6088
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. If Red Skull doesn't have T'Challa's skill or T'Challa's superior gear, then birds shouldn't be needed in order for T'Challa to gain the upperhand and win the fight.

    If T'Challa had removed the vibranium suit (rather than just the gloves), I could have an easier time buying Skull dominating the fight. I would't entirely agree with it, but it would be an easier pill to swallow. Course, it would be stupid to remove the suit... but just saying that makes the fight more believable if you actually want Skull winning against a more skilled opponent.
    Disagree then.

  14. #6089
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    Geoff Johns has a thing for making villains very OP. For me, he often ends up making the heroes rather ineffective.
    Just to comment on this, I agree in principal that villains should be written very OP. I think the more powerful the villain, the more it means when the hero beats the villain. In theory it's a win win situation.

    But like everything else, it's a matter of execution. There needs to be believable reasons why a hero is ineffective if that's what's needed for the story. In this story in particularly, I think T'Challa needed to be a bit weakend OR Skull needed to be buffed up for some reason. Otherwise I think readers can walk away from this story believing that Skull is as good a fighter (or arguably even slightly better) than T'Challa. And that's not the case.

    And for the record I'm not knocking the story or the writer as a whole. Just think this one aspect was a somewhat poor showing for T'Challa. I like most of Johns stuff, and I certainly enjoyed Red Zone.

  15. #6090
    Incredible Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    From who lol???
    Not type savvy to cut and paste but I'm referring to other posters that were suggesting few post before my original that they wouldn't mind having Danai or Okoye being War Dogs leader. I never make a point assuming I know what will happen.

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