Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Blind Wedjat]

You pretty much do, unless you are self-hating, which isn't a term I'd ever ascribe to Doom.

Self hating isn't exactly the same thing as being a white supremacist. I could hate myself for being black because I think I'm ugly with black features, but I don't necessarily have to think white people are there for superior to every other race. I can also be a black person who thinks they are and ascribes to that doctrine.

Doom's display of overt egoism and narcissism can also be used to explain that self hate. Not saying that's his actual problem but it can be used to explain it.

[chief12d]

Again, I will simply say whatever Coogler hypothetically MIGHT do, I have faith it would do the character justice. His handling of Killmonger made him both credible and even sympathetic. He knows how to handle villains correctly. So I'd give Coogler the benefit if the doubt in this regard until he gives reason to think otherwise.

Beyond just Coogler, I think marvel studios in general has something to prove as far as handling the marvel characters Fox (in the eyes of many) mishandled. I think marvel wants to prove they can do a better job with these characters.

So no, I am in no way fearful of Coogler handling Doom IF Coogler chooses to do so. If anything I would look foreward to it. That said, I'm skeptical he would go in that direction... but ya never know.

In your view would adapting the panels that you initially responded to fly in the face of how you as a Doom fan would like the character to be handled “correctly”? What would the ideal Doom vs BP matchup look like, with the understanding that it’s just a idea? Because I don’t exactly agree with this notion that making Doom a racist who looks down on Wakanda yet desires their resources is a bad angle to go for. Not sure if that’s what you’re implying, but I’m curious to see what dynamic they could have.

And I’m sure regardless of what Coogler or Marvel does it’ll be better than what happened at Fox, which I think everyone can appreciate. They’ll prove they can do better regardless, but I’m interested to see what portrayal of Doom fans would prefer.

[XPac]

Wait, are we pretending only pure white europeans say racist things about black people?

Doom can be the big bad for Avengers 5: Rise of the Supremacists

I don't think you need to be pure white to say racist things. But a non white white supremacist would be sorta weird.

In any event, I wouldn't be that shocked if he said racist thungs against BP, or sexist things against Carol, or anti American things against Steve. Villains sometimes say and do mean things.

[MichaelC]

But a non white white supremacist would be sorta weird.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing you only see in a Chapelle skit. A Gypsy white supremacist would be just bizarre.

[Rumble]

"Bbbb-but Doom isnt a white supremacist by technicality, he's just a racist south east Asian white-looking scumback from India believing in the inferiority of blacks and ownership of women! Get your facts right!"

Rumble:

I mean... ok. If that makes people feel better, I'm open to rocking with that I suppose...

Hahahahahah

[MindofShadow]

"Bbbb-but Doom isnt a white supremacist by technicality, he's just a racist south east Asian white-looking scumback from India believing in the inferiority of blacks and ownership of women! Get your facts right!"

Rumble:

I mean... ok. If that makes people feel better, I'm open to rocking with that I suppose...

Hahahahahah

[Rumble]

Outside of that I don't remember him ever being strongly identified as a Gypsy in his previous movies. Could be wrong though cuz it was a while ago. There's no reason to start now lol, especially when it's a way to insulate him from what would obviously be a goldmine for good narratives in a Black Panther movie.

Even if they do choose to identify him as some sort of non-European they could play with that narrative still. Where T'Challa is confident in where he comes from and seeks to better his country Doom's inferiority complex and desire for adoration leads him towards overcompensating with his megalomania. Hell whatever racism he has for Wakanda could be a product of that along with his jealousy that it's a better place to live than Latveria

Could you imagine the deflection tactics of well that's not white supremacist racism, its south east Asian white guy from India Supremacist racism! That changes EVERYTHING! Let's split hairs over that instead so we can futilely muddy up the big picture! But mud keeps on coming off and the big picture of racist scumbag Doom remains :/

But yes, it would make for a great complex villain story, regardless of what flavor of racist scumbaggery

[XPac]

In your view would adapting the panels that you initially responded to fly in the face of how you as a Doom fan would like the character to be handled “correctly”? What would the ideal Doom vs BP matchup look like, with the understanding that it’s just a idea? Because I don’t exactly agree with this notion that making Doom a racist who looks down on Wakanda yet desires their resources is a bad angle to go for. Not sure if that’s what you’re implying, but I’m curious to see what dynamic they could have.

And I’m sure regardless of what Coogler or Marvel does it’ll be better than what happened at Fox, which I think everyone can appreciate. They’ll prove they can do better regardless, but I’m interested to see what portrayal of Doom fans would prefer.

Depending on the overall execution of the character and the plot, the panels wouldn't necessarily fly in the face of how I want Doom handled.

As an example, Hudlin's Doom said some clearly racist things. But overall I was fine with how Hudlin handled the character. He showed a clear respect as far as showcasing exactly why Doom is Doom. He had Doom beat T'Challa 2 straight in his own book.... he wrote a villain exactly how a villain should be written. As a legit threat.

As I said in another thread, I have no real issue with him saying something racist to T'Challa, anymore than I would him mind saying something sexist to Carol or something anti-American to Steve if the context works. He's a villain. Villains sometimes talk sh*t. He's try to get under the skin of the hero (and under the skin of the audience).

If he can stay true to the spirit of the character (obviously we never get exact translations into the movies and that's fine) while showing why he's the top villain in the MU EVEN if he loses in the end like most villains should, I'm completely fine with it. And I beleive based on what we saw with Killmonger, Coogler can pull it off.

[Rumble]

Does this make Victor the token "non-white guy" on the team? (or just the token non-Azanian??)

[Hypestyle]

don't want Doom in Panther part 2. editorial won't allow it and won't allow the hardcore beatdown that Doom deserves.

[Ezyo1000]

Dude has to wear a hat to mow the lawn

I mean... That doesn't mean anything! Clearly Doom isn't white... Your just picking on Doom misunderstood Doom!

[Ezyo1000]

Dang man we got some Olympic gold medalist level gy gymnastics up in here for Doom. It's astounding

[XPac]

I mean... That doesn't mean anything! Clearly Doom isn't white... Your just picking on Doom misunderstood Doom!

I suppose whether or not you consider a Gypsy "white" might be dependent on whether you consider race a social contstruct or a biological absolute.

By virtue of ancentry, I don't think you can accurately label gypsies white.

[MichaelC]

I suppose whether or not you consider a Gypsy "white" might be dependent on whether you consider race a social contstruct or a biological absolute.

By virtue of ancentry, I don't think you can accurately label gypsies white.

By ancestry, he's this: Of course, comic artists tend to draw everyone who isn't black as looking white, even Jubilee, who has round blue eyes in a lot of comicbooks.

[Rumble]

Dang man we got some Olympic gold medalist level gy gymnastics up in here for Doom. It's astounding

They think arguing Doom is a racist gypsy and not a racist "white" guy is a moral victory.

They dont even know what they're arguing for anymore. Doom War ain't happening for BP 2 tho, and it burns their souls