Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I do think we should have differing idealogies in Wakanda... that's one of the strengths of a lot of the stories in the comics. Villains are better when they operate under a idealogy of some sort apart from simply wanting to sit on T'Challa's throne. Killmonger, M'Baku and T'CHalla in the comics all have very differing views, and that adds a lot of dept to their conflict.

If M'Baku doesn't represent a different idealogy for Wakanda, hopefully we get a villain that does. It made Killmonger a much more interesting character.

To be honest I wasn't really feeling the "brother" talk in Infinity War. I loved the differing views of T'Challa, Killmonger and M'Baku. All had valid points. There's also something great about the enemy of my enemy is my friend. M'Baku had to show up because what Killmonger was doing was bringing too much heat to Wakanda. T'Challa rewarded him with a spot in the crew, but I still would like for them to butt heads. Especially with the 5 year gap and how the next war preparation should be strategized.

Also I'm not against T'Challa having a male friend. I mean with the deleted scene you could argue thats what Ross is going to be. I'm sure they'll give him a black male friend as well.

Just have him be another person who looked out for T'Challa when he was young.

[dreyga2000]

. Key word HEROES, ones who on comics have their own identity and are their own heroes. You know why widow showed up and not Sharon? Because widow had more draw then Sharon. Agent 13 had a very weak presence in Caps movies.

Or there's the fact Black Widow has been a Captain America supporting character for years...

[MindofShadow]

Certain people, feel some kind of way when two black men are on the screen together at the same time, shoulder to shoulder, on the same side, as opposed to being against each other. That's why BP IMO will always be flanked by women (his sister and Okoye). Which is fine, the more black women that get to shine the better, but the one black male at a time thing also has to go.

This is why I don't get why W'kabi has to either turn fully heel or die to "redeem" himself. He wanted his father's killer brought to justice, his friend didn't do it (and wouldn't tell him why for some reason) while this outsider did. People apparently don't see clearly when it comes to the circumstances of their father's murder (see T'challa himself as well as Tony in Civil War). All this ignored because, well, it just feels right to see a black dude die for a greater cause or redeeming himself doesn't it?

If W'kabi and M'baku is out of the question for various reasons...I'd suggest Casper Cole. Hire Jordan Calloway, voila. If people feel some sort of way about how the comic Casper Cole is portrayed I'd humbly remind them the MOVIE version can be cooler under Coogler. Hashtag two black men at a time.
#twoblackmenatatime

Mbaku/T'challa, bros for life.

W'kabi needs a heroic death for Okoye, not really T'challa.

People forget he turned his back on her too.

[MindofShadow]

Black Panther vs. Timber Wolf by Ardian Syaf

[XPac]

hmm



Great suggestion...


https://twitter.com/n_droo_yu_el

Ghost Rider and Hellstrom are both getting TV series on Hulu. I'd think Mephisto would show up on those shows (though obviously that's just a guess at this point). If that's the case, they should use whoever they're using as Mephisto there for the MCU version. I know there's some degree of seperation logisitcally between the movie and the TV side of things, but it's all still supposed to be a part of the same universe.

[XPac]

To be honest I wasn't really feeling the "brother" talk in Infinity War. I loved the differing views of T'Challa, Killmonger and M'Baku. All had valid points. There's also something great about the enemy of my enemy is my friend. M'Baku had to show up because what Killmonger was doing was bringing too much heat to Wakanda. T'Challa rewarded him with a spot in the crew, but I still would like for them to butt heads. Especially with the 5 year gap and how the next war preparation should be strategized.

Also I'm not against T'Challa having a male friend. I mean with the deleted scene you could argue thats what Ross is going to be. I'm sure they'll give him a black male friend as well.

Just have him be another person who looked out for T'Challa when he was young.

I think Priest to some degree almost set up somewhat of an Xavier/Magneto vibe with M'Baku where they're best friends who had different ideologies. Unfortunately that wasn't followed up on too much in comics... the closest we got post Priest was M'Baku being invited to T'Challa's wedding (which was cool for entirely different reasons).

Whether or not they stay allies, I do like the idea of them having differences as far as idealogy goes. I think the contrast is a good way to add texture to the story. There should be multiple visions of where Wakanda should go, and multiple characters championing those visions. That's the sort of thing you have to milk when you have a political backdrop.

As far as male friends go... I'm sort of hoping he becomes BFF's with Sam and Bucky so that he'll show up for at least part of the Falcon/Bucky show to help deal with Zemo. I don't know if Boseman is willing to do a TV show if he's a movie star now, but I'd like to see him at least show up. Plus, I'd like to see him become friends with some other members of the super hero communit, and Sam and Bucky seem more likely than Strange, Carol, Ant-Man or Spider-Man. Maybe he can upgrade Falcons gear too, like he did in the comics.

[MindofShadow]

Why? Tchalla doesn't have any homies. Why does he have to have beef with his only male friends?

M'baku gave up a chance to be super powered to help T'challa.

M'baku sacrificed his own people to stop Killmonger to help T'challa.

M'baku broke centuries of tradition by bringing the Jabari back under the throne and under T'challa.

M'baku decides to ride or die with T'challa against the Black Order.

M'baku decides to ride or die with T'challa against Thanos, despite seeing what happened last time he brought his people against him

Plus, leaders can disagree without having long term beef and resulting to fisticuffs. Hell, the tribal council lady disagreed with T'challa going to get Klaw... there wasn't any beef there. Just grown adults debating pros and cons.

But yeah, Zemo is the straw that breaks the camel's back lol. People are wildin. M'baku probably doesn't even know who Zemo is. Hell, does anyone really now who Zemo is? Dude was captured by a vigilante King in Siberia and delivered to the CIA. Dude's probably off the grid. World thought the WS killed T'chaka.

[XPac]

M'baku broke centuries of tradition by bringing the Jabari back under the throne and under T'challa.

M'baku decides to ride or die with T'challa against the Black Order.

M'baku decides to ride or die with T'challa against Thanos, despite seeing what happened last time he brought his people against him

Plus, leaders can disagree without having long term beef and resulting to fisticuffs. Hell, the tribal council lady disagreed with T'challa going to get Klaw... there wasn't any beef there. Just grown adults debating pros and cons.

But yeah, Zemo is the straw that breaks the camel's back lol. People are wildin. M'baku probably doesn't even know who Zemo is. Hell, does anyone really now who Zemo is? Dude was captured by a vigilante King in Siberia and delivered to the CIA. Dude's probably off the grid. World thought the WS killed T'chaka.

I doubt Zemo would be the cause of M'Baku's heel turn, if there ever is one.

I think a much easier explanation, if one is needed, is the 5 year gap where T'Challa was missing. M'Baku is probably the most logical person to run things in T'Challa's absence. T'Challa returning to immediately take back. There's a window there where Coogler can pretty much do anything he wants, depending on the direction he wants to go.

Course, we don't see any issues at all in End Game... but we likely wouldn't since Thanos is enough of a threat to bring really anyone together.

Not that Coogler needs to pull a heel turn of course. It's merely an option if he wants to go there.

[Ezyo1000]

Certain people, feel some kind of way when two black men are on the screen together at the same time, shoulder to shoulder, on the same side, as opposed to being against each other. That's why BP IMO will always be flanked by women (his sister and Okoye). Which is fine, the more black women that get to shine the better, but the one black male at a time thing also has to go.

This is why I don't get why W'kabi has to either turn fully heel or die to "redeem" himself. He wanted his father's killer brought to justice, his friend didn't do it (and wouldn't tell him why for some reason) while this outsider did. People apparently don't see clearly when it comes to the circumstances of their father's murder (see T'challa himself as well as Tony in Civil War). All this ignored because, well, it just feels right to see a black dude die for a greater cause or redeeming himself doesn't it?

If W'kabi and M'baku is out of the question for various reasons...I'd suggest Casper Cole. Hire Jordan Calloway, voila. If people feel some sort of way about how the comic Casper Cole is portrayed I'd humbly remind them the MOVIE version can be cooler under Coogler. Hashtag two black men at a time.
#twoblackmenatatime

alot of truth here. I mean thinking on it Erik, T'Challa, and W'kabi all came had similar reactions when faced with their father's killer (in Erik's case, his son who he would direct his anger to) and acted in unreasonable ways, although T'Challa didn't take Wakandan life.

I would be okay if W'kabi came back and redeemed himself without dying. I'm also okay If he didn't, but Tchalla needs a homie. At all times, there should be at least 1 other Black man he is cool with.

[Ezyo1000]

Or there's the fact Black Widow has been a Captain America supporting character for years...

Sharon is Caps LI. Shouldn't she of had a bigger part rather then their awkward kiss in CW? And are we talking the movies or comics, because comics everyone has teamed up and shown up to some capacity in heroes books for some time. The point I was making was given what transpired from Cap to tws, he needed more supporting cast. So, enter 3 more heroes added to the supporting cast. Which is fine for Cap as he Needed it but those characters being added where all heroes who also operate outside of Cap and aren't soley just supporting cast members of Caps books comic wise.

It was fine for Thor because he also needed it given his supporting cast was weak and coming into the 3rd movie with all new members would be a tough sell, enter Loki, hulk and ONE new character. T'Challa however, doesn't need it because his support is strong, his cast is full, and everyone on the cast is truly from his mythos and don't venture out into their own agency. They are literally just his supporting cast. So why add heroes to an already full cast of actual mythos based characters and take away their development? Again not Needed for T'Challa

[Blind Wedjat]

They can do a lot more with M'Baku now that he's an ally than the pretty generic villain he usually is depicted as. And it's not as if M'Baku and the Jabari pose any real threat to T'Challa who has better armour, weapons, numbers, and powers. The movie has the advantage of really thinking about how things can work and make sense in its own depiction of Wakanda and it doesn't have to adhere to comic book continuity.

M'Baku can still remain a traditionalist, but now the MCU can explore what he brings to the table as a member of the of T'Challa's council. Keep in mind that we never actually saw him complain about Wakanda aiding the rest of the world. He initially has problems with who is in charge of things, that being Shuri being in charge of the Wakanda Design Group and T'Challa being on the throne (because he failed to save T'Chaka), and he also feels T'Challa asking for the Jabari's help was opportunistic seeing that past members of the Royal family have ignored them.

Essentially the Jabari are the minority group with no political power or influence possibly because they worshipped a different god and refused rule from T'Challa's ancestors. Now they do have some power because their leader M'Baku has made it to the King's council. And considering M'Baku has led the Jabari to fight for the world on T'Challa's behalf three times, I fail to see why M'Baku would have a problem with Wakanda aiding the rest of the world. Yes, no one knows what he may have been thinking for those five years when T'Challa and Shuri were snapped, but keep in mind it's about two years between Black Panther and Infinity War and M'Baku still didn't hesitate to defend outsiders T'Challa brought in to Wakanda. In fact, who is to say the Jabari didn't want Wakanda to help Africa during the Transatlantic slave trade and centuries after that? The only people we see spouting nationalist and isolationist rhetoric are the Royal family and their allies (exceptions being Nakia and possibly Shuri), not the Jabari.

[XPac]

Sharon is Caps LI. Shouldn't she of had a bigger part rather then their awkward kiss in CW? And are we talking the movies or comics, because comics everyone has teamed up and shown up to some capacity in heroes books for some time. The point I was making was given what transpired from Cap to tws, he needed more supporting cast. So, enter 3 more heroes added to the supporting cast. Which is fine for Cap as he Needed it but those characters being added where all heroes who also operate outside of Cap and aren't soley just supporting cast members of Caps books comic wise.

It was fine for Thor because he also needed it given his supporting cast was weak and coming into the 3rd movie with all new members would be a tough sell, enter Loki, hulk and ONE new character. T'Challa however, doesn't need it because his support is strong, his cast is full, and everyone on the cast is truly from his mythos and don't venture out into their own agency. They are literally just his supporting cast. So why add heroes to an already full cast of actual mythos based characters and take away their development? Again not Needed for T'Challa

If Endgame (no pun intended) was for Steve to be with Peggy, then poor Sharon in the MCU was honestly just filler. In hindsight Sharon honestly wasn't needed at all. If Sharon played a bigger role than she did, it probably would have made the Peggy stuff look worse for everyone involved. If not for how funny the reaction we got from Bucky and Sam, I'd even say the kiss might not have been worth it.

But as far as Steve's support... between Black Widow, Winter Soldier, and Falcon I'd say he arguably has the best support group in the MCU. No one has more actual super heroes in their supporting cast than Steve does. And that's not even counting Maria Hill and Fury, who are probably closer associated with Steve than anyone apart from maybe Stark.

But with regard to BP, I think we're all in agreement that he doesn't NEED more superheroes in his movie. I don't think anyone has argued that he does. IF more are used, it's a simple matter of Coogler wanting to use them. As he said in an earlier quote, " Being a marvel fan, you want to grab all the characters." That's one of the upsides of having a shared universe ... that's an option if you want it to be.

[XPac]

They can do a lot more with M'Baku now that he's an ally than the pretty generic villain he usually is depicted as. And it's not as if M'Baku and the Jabari pose any real threat to T'Challa who has better armour, weapons, numbers, and powers. The movie has the advantage of really thinking about how things can work and make sense in its own depiction of Wakanda and it doesn't have to adhere to comic book continuity.

M'Baku can still remain a traditionalist, but now the MCU can explore what he brings to the table as a member of the of T'Challa's council. Keep in mind that we never actually saw him complain about Wakanda aiding the rest of the world. He initially has problems with who is in charge of things, that being Shuri being in charge of the Wakanda Design Group and T'Challa being on the throne (because he failed to save T'Chaka), and he also feels T'Challa asking for the Jabari's help was opportunistic seeing that past members of the Royal family have ignored them.

Essentially the Jabari are the minority group with no political power or influence possibly because they worshipped a different god and refused rule from T'Challa's ancestors. Now they do have some power because their leader M'Baku has made it to the King's council. And considering M'Baku has led the Jabari to fight for the world on T'Challa's behalf three times, I fail to see why M'Baku would have a problem with Wakanda aiding the rest of the world. Yes, no one knows what he may have been thinking for those five years when T'Challa and Shuri were snapped, but keep in mind it's about two years between Black Panther and Infinity War and M'Baku still didn't hesitate to defend outsiders T'Challa brought in to Wakanda. In fact, who is to say the Jabari didn't want Wakanda to help Africa during the Transatlantic slave trade and centuries after that? The only people we see spouting nationalist and isolationist rhetoric are the Royal family and their allies (exceptions being Nakia and possibly Shuri), not the Jabari.

Hypothetically speaking, you can argue that M'Baku might have a problem with T'Challa helping the Avengers because it led to Wakanda being invaded by Thanos. Yes, stopping Thanos benefitted everyone but honestly the smarter play probably would be to destroy the gem before Thanos got there rather than try and help Vision. T'Challa's friendship with the Avengers, from a purely objective perspective, endangered Wakanda and the world. Which wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that they ended up failing. Course, it wouldn't make a difference once Thanos got the time gem... but no one would know that at the time.

POint being, it's easy enough to justify Coogler going in whatever direction he wants. THe Russos left Wakanda's situation relatively vague enough of a blank slate. We saw small bits and pieces of Wakanda, but not enough to really pigeon hole Coogler in any specific direction. Which is probably a good thing.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Here is another reason. You have Winston Duke. A incredibly talented actor and people want him to be Heimdall status. Really?

People quote the hell out of that intro scene from Duke.

The political discussion carried the hell out of the movie. Again I'm not saying the villain in the 2nd movie. Just we should see real debate and cracks in the friendship. It sets up for an epic conclusion in the 3rd film.

[chief12d]

You know these are just rumours right? Just because these people are clamoring it as fact on YouTube and Facebook doesn't mean it's true. Hell they claimed that storm was in the sequel based on some 4chan isht.

So no, I don't believe this for a second, it's way too early in development to start claiming who the villain is

Looking back, I probably should've prefaced that post with "if" lol. Yea these are all rumors and at this point I'm just accepting that Namor is a possibility even though he's far from my first choice.