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  1. #751
    Mario Di Giacomo Beware Of Geek's Avatar
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    Zawavari was created by Hudlin, tho.
    Mario Di Giacomo

  2. #752
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Yep. And Achebe in no way is a shaman in the forest. It has nothing to do with his character.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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  3. #753
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    White Wolfs niche can easily be filled by MCU M'baku. He's redundant. There is a reason Coogler closed the door on that scenario by giving Bucky the nickname instead.

    Why in Bast's name is there Mandarin scans in here?

    Achebe works. Zanderjack works. I'll also allow updated Supremacists, Moses, and if he wants to get weird with it, Mephisto.

    Zandajack gives you a chance to showcase T'challa's senses and brain as well... I'm liking it.

    Achebe, the mad scientist/alchemist could even be used to created Zandajack, Solomon Prey, and ARMLESS TIGER MAN. AKA how they got their powers.

    The other tribes saw all the weird shit out there now... the super heroes, gods on earth, raging monsters, glove weilding purple thumbs, and started to explore ways to produce more powered beings, not just the Black Panther.

    They are doubly panicked because the HSH is gone. If T'challa dies, they are screwed.

    Enter... the rumored shaman in the forest... Achebe.

    Also gives an avenue to potentially upgrade M'baku.
    There are alot of angles to play here, but one thing for sure, Zandajack needs to be adapted to the MCU (since people loved the women of Wakanda, show them a badass villainess who can stand with the big dogs too) and Achebe could fill that role. I still think Achebe should be paired with Mephisto personally, but I'm willing to see other avenues...I think though if Coogler wants to go deep and like the first movie then the supremacists would be a good angle to hit to address some isht going on.. though I dunno how Marvel would take that. But there's a way to address it without being preachy, Coogler showed us as much with Erik

  4. #754
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    Yep. And Achebe in no way is a shaman in the forest. It has nothing to do with his character.
    Course, in the same breath Nakia had nothing to do with the Dogs or War. Malika probably would have been a closer approximation (assuming there is no heel turn planned).

    It's entirely possibly (maybe even probable at this point) that Coogler will randomly assign whatever name he fancies from the mythos and just applies it to whatever random character he needs in the movie.

    That said, if they were going to use a shaman I'd GUESS they would use Tetu. I know some aren't Coates fans, but I don't think Coogler is in that particular camp.

  5. #755
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beware Of Geek View Post
    Zawavari was created by Hudlin, tho.
    I actually didn't see you put Zawavari lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    Yep. And Achebe in no way is a shaman in the forest. It has nothing to do with his character.
    Malekith's life mission wasn't to wield an infinity stone, Killian doesn't take EXTREMIS, Hela doesn't have swords coming out of her arms, Star Lord isn't half celestial, Cross wasn't ever yellowjacket, Ghost wasn't... that lol


    Without Mephisto, Achebe needs something to make him a threat other than being a lunatic.

    he can keep the personality and goals while being a combination of other characters, similar to other MCU characters

    (or not, just brain storming. A joker esque villain who can't defend himself doesn't work so well with a hero that doesn't have a no kill policy)
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  6. #756

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post

    Why in Bast's name is there Mandarin scans in here?
    You know why: to talk about something that's ACTUALLY important!

    Meanwhile I checked other appreciation threads out of curiosity. Oddly, they stay on topic about whomever they're appreciating. Huh.

  7. #757
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Malekith's life mission wasn't to wield an infinity stone, Killian doesn't take EXTREMIS, Hela doesn't have swords coming out of her arms, Star Lord isn't half celestial, Cross wasn't ever yellowjacket, Ghost wasn't... that lol


    Without Mephisto, Achebe needs something to make him a threat other than being a lunatic.

    he can keep the personality and goals while being a combination of other characters, similar to other MCU characters

    (or not, just brain storming. A joker esque villain who can't defend himself doesn't work so well with a hero that doesn't have a no kill policy)
    I don't know MoS. Personally I'm looking for a more intellectual villain. I really don't know how the MCU and Coogler would choose to handle Achebe. On one hand it'll be fairly easy to cut off all the mystical ties and just make an influential mad man. On the other hand, those Ancestral plane scenes for instance left things open enough to go full mystical (in the hopes that no one will ask questions) and bring up Mephisto or some other entity controlling and aiding Achebe.

    The only thing is for now I don't see Coogler going for the other option unless he can prove me otherwise. It's just weird how I see it that way, and the truth of the matter is Coogler combined the superhero stuff with the real world family drama and politics so well with the first movie that I should be able to see him do it, but I don't yet.

    But really in my opinion I don't necessarily think Achebe needs to be a physical threat. I think T'Challa at least needs one bad guy that makes him work really hard mentally, and Achebe can be that. Most of his villains challenge him physically and politically, but Achebe needs to be an intellectual challenge.

    You could work around and write a plot around T'Challa not just having to kill Achebe. Show Achebe is always two, three steps ahead because he's back by a shadow organisation that can always rescue and extract him. Put Bucky-level assassins around him (you could use characters like Death Tiger and Madame Slay for instance, or international ones like Batroc or Kraven) that keep T'Challa occupied, or even if T'Challa does capture him, he can't just kill because a secret location of slaves or trafficked people is only known to him, or it can be framed as an international incident if Achebe has ties to politicians from other countries. You can make him a guy who just by words and influence can start civil wars, destroy almost entire countries, sink economies, insight global incidents etc. He can be dangerous without having to lift a finger if someone works hard enough to write him that way and a good story around it.

  8. #758
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    You know why: to talk about something that's ACTUALLY important!

    Meanwhile I checked other appreciation threads out of curiosity. Oddly, they stay on topic about whomever they're appreciating. Huh.
    In the comics, Mandarin actually DOES resurrect Killmonger though. And they DID establish that a real Mandarin does exist in the MCU. So if hypothetically Coogler wanted a way to bring Killmonger back, using the Mandarin could be a viable option. But he's probably a long shot.

  9. #759
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I don't know MoS. Personally I'm looking for a more intellectual villain. I really don't know how the MCU and Coogler would choose to handle Achebe. On one hand it'll be fairly easy to cut off all the mystical ties and just make an influential mad man. On the other hand, those Ancestral plane scenes for instance left things open enough to go full mystical (in the hopes that no one will ask questions) and bring up Mephisto or some other entity controlling and aiding Achebe.

    The only thing is for now I don't see Coogler going for the other option unless he can prove me otherwise. It's just weird how I see it that way, and the truth of the matter is Coogler combined the superhero stuff with the real world family drama and politics so well with the first movie that I should be able to see him do it, but I don't yet.

    But really in my opinion I don't necessarily think Achebe needs to be a physical threat. I think T'Challa at least needs one bad guy that makes him work really hard mentally, and Achebe can be that. Most of his villains challenge him physically and politically, but Achebe needs to be an intellectual challenge.

    You could work around and write a plot around T'Challa not just having to kill Achebe. Show Achebe is always two, three steps ahead because he's back by a shadow organisation that can always rescue and extract him. Put Bucky-level assassins around him (you could use characters like Death Tiger and Madame Slay for instance, or international ones like Batroc or Kraven) that keep T'Challa occupied, or even if T'Challa does capture him, he can't just kill because a secret location of slaves or trafficked people is only known to him, or it can be framed as an international incident if Achebe has ties to politicians from other countries. You can make him a guy who just by words and influence can start civil wars, destroy almost entire countries, sink economies, insight global incidents etc. He can be dangerous without having to lift a finger if someone works hard enough to write him that way and a good story around it.
    Achebe doesn't have to be a physical threat, provided he works with a physical threat. Most marvel movies have at least 2 villains lingering around, so having 1 that's not a physical challenge is doable in theory.

  10. #760

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    In the comics, Mandarin actually DOES resurrect Killmonger though. And they DID establish that a real Mandarin does exist in the MCU. So if hypothetically Coogler wanted a way to bring Killmonger back, using the Mandarin could be a viable option. But he's probably a long shot.
    Like was mentioned earlier, its not BP's job to usher in other franchise's villains. "Hypothetically" Coogler knows this and won't do that, funny it never goes in that direction when talking "hypothetically."

    If Mandarin and Doom are so great they don't need any help anyway...right? Have them star in their own movies.

  11. #761
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I don't know MoS. Personally I'm looking for a more intellectual villain. I really don't know how the MCU and Coogler would choose to handle Achebe. On one hand it'll be fairly easy to cut off all the mystical ties and just make an influential mad man. On the other hand, those Ancestral plane scenes for instance left things open enough to go full mystical (in the hopes that no one will ask questions) and bring up Mephisto or some other entity controlling and aiding Achebe.

    The only thing is for now I don't see Coogler going for the other option unless he can prove me otherwise. It's just weird how I see it that way, and the truth of the matter is Coogler combined the superhero stuff with the real world family drama and politics so well with the first movie that I should be able to see him do it, but I don't yet.

    But really in my opinion I don't necessarily think Achebe needs to be a physical threat. I think T'Challa at least needs one bad guy that makes him work really hard mentally, and Achebe can be that. Most of his villains challenge him physically and politically, but Achebe needs to be an intellectual challenge.

    You could work around and write a plot around T'Challa not just having to kill Achebe. Show Achebe is always two, three steps ahead because he's back by a shadow organisation that can always rescue and extract him. Put Bucky-level assassins around him (you could use characters like Death Tiger and Madame Slay for instance, or international ones like Batroc or Kraven) that keep T'Challa occupied, or even if T'Challa does capture him, he can't just kill because a secret location of slaves or trafficked people is only known to him, or it can be framed as an international incident if Achebe has ties to politicians from other countries. You can make him a guy who just by words and influence can start civil wars, destroy almost entire countries, sink economies, insight global incidents etc. He can be dangerous without having to lift a finger if someone works hard enough to write him that way and a good story around it.
    I have no problem with any of that.

    It would just have to be done extremely well to not come off as a cop out that T'challa doesn't just find and kill the dude.

    I mean, shoot, he went into another sovereign country, put on a super suit, and tried to kill someone twice already in the MCU lol (bucky and klaue) despite all the government shennanigans involved.

    He also housed a wanted man (Bucky) despite warning that if anyone found out, they would come for him... and T'challa didn't give an F.

    Now, some of that can now change now that Wakanda is known to the world, and Coogler certainly has the talent to surprise me... but this is MUCH more difficult than the Joker imo.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  12. #762

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    As for Achebe, tie him to a made-up rogue death god, an adversary of Bast (unless one already exists my lore knowledge is rusty). Make him a Jim Jones type who came to power during the gap between IW and EG (assuming none of that is erased at the end of EG).

    As for who could play him...Orlando Jones seems fine, though I want one of the Hodge brothers involved in the MCU in some capacity. One of them could play him as well.

  13. #763
    Resident of The Djalia Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    But really in my opinion I don't necessarily think Achebe needs to be a physical threat. I think T'Challa at least needs one bad guy that makes him work really hard mentally, and Achebe can be that. Most of his villains challenge him physically and politically, but Achebe needs to be an intellectual challenge.

    You could work around and write a plot around T'Challa not just having to kill Achebe. Show Achebe is always two, three steps ahead because he's back by a shadow organisation that can always rescue and extract him. Put Bucky-level assassins around him (you could use characters like Death Tiger and Madame Slay for instance, or international ones like Batroc or Kraven) that keep T'Challa occupied, or even if T'Challa does capture him, he can't just kill because a secret location of slaves or trafficked people is only known to him, or it can be framed as an international incident if Achebe has ties to politicians from other countries. You can make him a guy who just by words and influence can start civil wars, destroy almost entire countries, sink economies, insight global incidents etc. He can be dangerous without having to lift a finger if someone works hard enough to write him that way and a good story around it.
    I should add that this doesn't necessarily have to make Achebe a Joker-esque villain. For starters I'd take away the constant ear-to-ear grin and the hand puppet. I'd make his personality a lot more similar to Cottonmouth from the Luke Cage show. A man with a menacing charm that can lose it from time to time (someone one HEF actually suggested Mahershala Ali as Achebe and I want that so bad now). You can paint him as a credible enough threat too if you can put him in a gunfight vs Nakia or someone who nearly kills an inexperienced Shuri.

  14. #764
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I don't know MoS. Personally I'm looking for a more intellectual villain. I really don't know how the MCU and Coogler would choose to handle Achebe. On one hand it'll be fairly easy to cut off all the mystical ties and just make an influential mad man. On the other hand, those Ancestral plane scenes for instance left things open enough to go full mystical (in the hopes that no one will ask questions) and bring up Mephisto or some other entity controlling and aiding Achebe.

    The only thing is for now I don't see Coogler going for the other option unless he can prove me otherwise. It's just weird how I see it that way, and the truth of the matter is Coogler combined the superhero stuff with the real world family drama and politics so well with the first movie that I should be able to see him do it, but I don't yet.

    But really in my opinion I don't necessarily think Achebe needs to be a physical threat. I think T'Challa at least needs one bad guy that makes him work really hard mentally, and Achebe can be that. Most of his villains challenge him physically and politically, but Achebe needs to be an intellectual challenge.

    You could work around and write a plot around T'Challa not just having to kill Achebe. Show Achebe is always two, three steps ahead because he's back by a shadow organisation that can always rescue and extract him. Put Bucky-level assassins around him (you could use characters like Death Tiger and Madame Slay for instance, or international ones like Batroc or Kraven) that keep T'Challa occupied, or even if T'Challa does capture him, he can't just kill because a secret location of slaves or trafficked people is only known to him, or it can be framed as an international incident if Achebe has ties to politicians from other countries. You can make him a guy who just by words and influence can start civil wars, destroy almost entire countries, sink economies, insight global incidents etc. He can be dangerous without having to lift a finger if someone works hard enough to write him that way and a good story around it.
    Well I will say, T'chadwick said he is ready to start seeing 2 steps ahead Panther more going forward so I think having this game of each character trying to out prep, and out strategize each other would be alot of fun, Achebe shouldn't be the physical threat though I agree. He is better used as the mental challenge as you said while another is the physical threat. But at the same time the story should have real life issues and current events to go with it. I like that angle for BP rather then just a superhero slug fest, it is what makes his movies something that can be discussed in deeper tones way after the movie has come out and show up like it has in Universitys and the like

  15. #765
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    Like was mentioned earlier, its not BP's job to usher in other franchise's villains. "Hypothetically" Coogler knows this and won't do that, funny it never goes in that direction when talking "hypothetically."

    If Mandarin and Doom are so great they don't need any help anyway...right? Have them star in their own movies.
    It's certainly not Cooglers job to use anyone. It's simply a matter of whether or not Coogler would want to use him.

    Coogler wanted to use Kraven for example.

    His exact quote was: "Being a marvel fan, you want to grab all the characters. You realize there are contractual things. You don't have all the characters. There was a Christopher Priest run that was pretty heavy, there's a big scene where Panther's fighting Kraven, Kraven the Hunter."

    https://screenrant.com/black-panther...kraven-hunter/
    Last edited by XPac; 01-20-2019 at 09:07 AM.

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