Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Ekie]

That too. Shuri lacked a niche or even a defining characteristic before she was elevated to big brain

Everyone doesnt need a niche to be likable or successful. Redjack's Shuri in Panther Quest was much more interesting than any Shuri ive seen and she wasn't portrayed as out and out smarter than her brother.
Ill wait till Panther 2 to completely go off on his portrayal but as even Chris Priest said, that wasn't the Tchalla that fans of TCHALLA wanted to see. He was a royal version of wolverine. Wakanda was great though.

[Cville]

Everyone doesnt need a niche to be likable or successful. Redjack's Shuri in Panther Quest was much more interesting than any Shuri ive seen and she wasn't portrayed as out and out smarter than her brother.
Ill wait till Panther 2 to completely go off on his portrayal but as even Chris Priest said, that wasn't the Tchalla that fans of TCHALLA wanted to see. He was a royal version of wolverine. Wakanda was great though.

I remember him saying it wasn't "my Tchalla" as is the Priest version.

[terrancejameson]

I think it would be cool if T'Challa built the vehicle's like the dragon flyer, Royal talon, AND THE BAST DAMN SKYBIKE

This is exactly along the lines I was thinking. We already know science is a hobby. But what does he like most about it? I like to believe as opposed to building weapons, T'Challa is more interested vehicles of a sort. I'd really like to see that woven into his character more. He should be a quick tinkerer that makes little vehicle types out of scraps.

I think what has been missed is that T'Challa and Shuri have different approaches to technology, not that she's smarter than him or he isn't a genius level intellect.

T'Challa clearly sticks towards tradition. His suit (which he designed himself as stated in a Civil War deleted scene and in BP) is exactly like his fathers. Advanced, functional and classic. There's nothing wrong with the suit. It does its job and that's what matters. T'Challa at the end of the day is a king, a warrior and a protector. Functionality matters the most.

Shuri on the other hand, believes something can always be improved. She calls T'Challa's suit "old" even though it isn't (considering that Wakandan technology is still more advanced than the rest of Earth's) because it can't automatically put on a helmet. Keep in mind that what Shuri perceives as a flaw is never shown to be one, and the additions she gives the new suit are things T'Challa doesn't actually need. But that's her philosophy: there's always something to add. And she has the time to always think of something and always add something. T'Challa really doesn't.

But more importantly (and this is just my opinion anyway) T'Challa has always used his genius in the battlefield and less so in the laboratory, and he does that in his film. His extraction assault for Nakia in Nigeria is perfectly executed until she prevents him from attacking a child soldier. He leads the Korea mission, tells Okoye and Nakia what to do (and is the one that succeeds in capturing Klaue). He also is the one with the plan during the final battle, and he uses the mag-lev trains to exploit a flaw in Killmonger's suit.

With all of this considered I don't know how one can't say T'Challa isn't a genius. I want more of T'Challa outsmarting people and outfighting them with tactics. That has always been his shining quality as a genius. Priest never stated T'Challa invented his BP suit or gear (as far as I remember). It was how he used it that made him smart.

This is the man I want to read more of. I want more of the man that outsmarts his enemies without trying. I want to see the man that watches fools crash and burn in front of him because he seen the flaw in their plan from the beginning. I want the man that sees his world as mathematical equations and can easily sniff out miscalculations.

[Blind Wedjat]

Everyone doesnt need a niche to be likable or successful. Redjack's Shuri in Panther Quest was much more interesting than any Shuri ive seen and she wasn't portrayed as out and out smarter than her brother.
Ill wait till Panther 2 to completely go off on his portrayal but as even Chris Priest said, that wasn't the Tchalla that fans of TCHALLA wanted to see. He was a royal version of wolverine. Wakanda was great though.

See, the problem here is that we only thing being smart = being an inventor. Nothing against Redjack, but it's obvious his Shuri took a lot of inspiration from the MCU version, right down to her mannerisms, her look and the fact that she was portrayed more as an inventor (and possibly a better one) than T'Challa in that show. I advise you watch it again if you think I'm mistaken. Again, in that show T'Challa isn't shown to invent anything, but rather understanding and using technology to achieve his goals. Which defines Priest's T'Challa as he wrote him.

Here's an example to illustrate my point: if I said Natasha Romanoff was one of the smartest heroes in the MCU would you take me seriously? Your first thought would probably be that Natasha is more super spy assassin than genius because she hasn't invented anything. Yet Natasha is one of, if not the best hacker in that universe. She's practically unmatched in that field, and she's been able to hack into technology that rivals that of Starks, and Stark himself has machines do the hacking for him. She's also one of the world's best spies, which you have to be smart and have a high IQ in order to be.

How many feats of invention does T'Challa have in comparison to outsmarting, outmaneuvering, outfighting and outthinking people and figuring out situations? How many of his invention feats are significant to his own lore and the rest of the Marvel universe? The answer is and will always be not many, because that's never been his role.

[Marvell2100]

I think what has been missed is that T'Challa and Shuri have different approaches to technology, not that she's smarter than him or he isn't a genius level intellect.

T'Challa clearly sticks towards tradition. His suit (which he designed himself as stated in a Civil War deleted scene and in BP) is exactly like his fathers. Advanced, functional and classic. There's nothing wrong with the suit. It does its job and that's what matters. T'Challa at the end of the day is a king, a warrior and a protector. Functionality matters the most.

Shuri on the other hand, believes something can always be improved. She calls T'Challa's suit "old" even though it isn't (considering that Wakandan technology is still more advanced than the rest of Earth's) because it can't automatically put on a helmet. Keep in mind that what Shuri perceives as a flaw is never shown to be one, and the additions she gives the new suit are things T'Challa doesn't actually need. But that's her philosophy: there's always something to add. And she has the time to always think of something and always add something. T'Challa really doesn't.

But more importantly (and this is just my opinion anyway) T'Challa has always used his genius in the battlefield and less so in the laboratory, and he does that in his film. His extraction assault for Nakia in Nigeria is perfectly executed until she prevents him from attacking a child soldier. He leads the Korea mission, tells Okoye and Nakia what to do (and is the one that succeeds in capturing Klaue). He also is the one with the plan during the final battle, and he uses the mag-lev trains to exploit a flaw in Killmonger's suit.

With all of this considered I don't know how one can't say T'Challa isn't a genius. I want more of T'Challa outsmarting people and outfighting them with tactics. That has always been his shining quality as a genius. Priest never stated T'Challa invented his BP suit or gear (as far as I remember). It was how he used it that made him smart.

It's great that Shuri is portrayed as a genius and that it doesn't lessen T'Challa's genius or abilities. It's great that young women of color, particularly African-American women have a role-model to look up to. Both T'Challa and Shuri played off each other well and neither was diminished by the others abilities.

I don't know why we can't have both.

[Blind Wedjat]

I remember him saying it wasn't "my Tchalla" as is the Priest version.

If I remember the quote correctly he said his T'Challa would have never been caught in situations that MCU T'Challa was, because his version was experienced and this one was just starting out so to speak. So he didn't like it but understood it.

This is the man I want to read more of. I want more of the man that outsmarts his enemies without trying. I want to see the man that watches fools crash and burn in front of him because he seen the flaw in their plan from the beginning. I want the man that sees his world as mathematical equations and can easily sniff out miscalculations.

Exactly.

I personally have never been fond of inventor T'Challa because it doesn't fit his character and more often than not it leads to nothing. Shadow Physics comes to mind and is a good example of this.

He's always been the guy that uses his intellect to have a better battle plan than anyone else. Really his intelligence and invention/tech feats have always been more similar to MacGuyver than Tony Stark.

[Blind Wedjat]

It's great that Shuri is portrayed as a genius and that it doesn't lessen T'Challa's genius or abilities. It's great that young women of color, particularly African-American women have a role-model to look up to. Both T'Challa and Shuri played off each other well and neither was diminished by the others abilities.

I don't know why we can't have both.

Agreed. And I think MCU T'Challa can move into direction of being someone that outsmarts people in battle because we've at least gotten tiny hints of it, and it's the only thing I want more of (and more uses of his enhanced senses). Having him go in that direction wouldn't stop him from being a genius and it doesn't stop Shuri from doing anything better than him.

Aside from the MCU and comics I consider EMH and Redjack's Panther to be definitive versions and he's never portrayed as an inventor in either series. Same thing during Priest's and Hudlin's runs. Invention remarks are made in passing at best.

[DigiCom]

See, the problem here is that we only thing being smart = being an inventor. Nothing against Redjack, but it's obvious his Shuri took a lot of inspiration from the MCU version, right down to her mannerisms, her look and the fact that she was portrayed more as an inventor (and possibly a better one) than T'Challa in that show. I advise you watch it again if you think I'm mistaken. Again, in that show T'Challa isn't shown to invent anything, but rather understanding and using technology to achieve his goals. Which defines Priest's T'Challa as he wrote him.

I pretty much agree with this. While Kirby showed T'Challa as an inventor, the version that made him popular to me (the Priest era) never stepped foot in a lab. For that matter, I can't recall him doing science in the Hudlin run, either. That's not his first instinct when there's a problem. Unlike the FF (where Reed pretty much lives in the lab) or Iron Man (where 99% of Tony's inventions are basically "more powerful armor") T'challa's gut reaction has almost NEVER been "I must invent a new device!"

Is he brilliant? Certainly. Has he created devices that make Wakanda better & stronger? Of course.

But T'challa is a king first. A hero second (or third, if you count warrior separate from king). And scientist comes after that. The reason T'Challa didn't invent anything new in the BP film was simply because he didn't NEED to. I can think of only ONE Panther scribe who has indicated that T'Challa likes to spend time in a lab tinkering...

And that was Coates.

[Marvell2100]

I pretty much agree with this. While Kirby showed T'Challa as an inventor, the version that made him popular to me (the Priest era) never stepped foot in a lab. For that matter, I can't recall him doing science in the Hudlin run, either. That's not his first instinct when there's a problem. Unlike the FF (where Reed pretty much lives in the lab) or Iron Man (where 99% of Tony's inventions are basically "more powerful armor") T'challa's gut reaction has almost NEVER been "I must invent a new device!"

Is he brilliant? Certainly. Has he created devices that make Wakanda better & stronger? Of course.

But T'challa is a king first. A hero second (or third, if you count warrior separate from king). And scientist comes after that. The reason T'Challa didn't invent anything new in the BP film was simply because he didn't NEED to. I can think of only ONE Panther scribe who has indicated that T'Challa likes to spend time in a lab tinkering...

And that was Coates.

And yet Coates' Panther has so few inventions.

[Blind Wedjat]

I pretty much agree with this. While Kirby showed T'Challa as an inventor, the version that made him popular to me (the Priest era) never stepped foot in a lab. For that matter, I can't recall him doing science in the Hudlin run, either. That's not his first instinct when there's a problem. Unlike the FF (where Reed pretty much lives in the lab) or Iron Man (where 99% of Tony's inventions are basically "more powerful armor") T'challa's gut reaction has almost NEVER been "I must invent a new device!"

Is he brilliant? Certainly. Has he created devices that make Wakanda better & stronger? Of course.

But T'challa is a king first. A hero second (or third, if you count warrior separate from king). And scientist comes after that. The reason T'Challa didn't invent anything new in the BP film was simply because he didn't NEED to.

Exactly. Hell, Priest himself had T'Challa make the point to Stark that he can invent an Iron Man suit if he wanted but chooses not to because he doesn't need to.

I can think of only ONE Panther scribe who has indicated that T'Challa likes to spend time in a lab tinkering...

And that was Coates.

[DigiCom]

And yet Coates' Panther has so few inventions.

That's because Coates only used it as another way to show how T'Chalal was a crap king.

"Wahh! I don't WANT to be King! I wanna play with my toys!" :P

[Marvell2100]

That's because Coates only used it as another way to show how T'Chalal was a crap king.

"Wahh! I don't WANT to be King! I wanna play with my toys!" :P

This is how we should refer to Coates' Panther from now on.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Everyone doesnt need a niche to be likable or successful. Redjack's Shuri in Panther Quest was much more interesting than any Shuri ive seen and she wasn't portrayed as out and out smarter than her brother.
Ill wait till Panther 2 to completely go off on his portrayal but as even Chris Priest said, that wasn't the Tchalla that fans of TCHALLA wanted to see. He was a royal version of wolverine. Wakanda was great though.

All characters need to bring something to the narrative/mythos. For the longest time, Shuri didn't. She was just the cliche bratty younger sister.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Exactly. Hell, Priest himself had T'Challa make the point to Stark that he can invent an Iron Man suit if he wanted but chooses not to because he doesn't need to.

The more they upgrade his suit though, the more I fear that's being lost. More emphasize should be placed on his mental ability, not the suit, IMO

[DigiCom]

This is how we should refer to Coates' Panther from now on.

Typo, sorry. I prefer T'Coates anyway.