Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Ezyo1000]

I think what has been missed is that T'Challa and Shuri have different approaches to technology, not that she's smarter than him or he isn't a genius level intellect.

T'Challa clearly sticks towards tradition. His suit (which he designed himself as stated in a Civil War deleted scene and in BP) is exactly like his fathers. Advanced, functional and classic. There's nothing wrong with the suit. It does its job and that's what matters. T'Challa at the end of the day is a king, a warrior and a protector. Functionality matters the most.

Shuri on the other hand, believes something can always be improved. She calls T'Challa's suit "old" even though it isn't (considering that Wakandan technology is still more advanced than the rest of Earth's) because it can't automatically put on a helmet. Keep in mind that what Shuri perceives as a flaw is never shown to be one, and the additions she gives the new suit are things T'Challa doesn't actually need. But that's her philosophy: there's always something to add. And she has the time to always think of something and always add something. T'Challa really doesn't.

But more importantly (and this is just my opinion anyway) T'Challa has always used his genius in the battlefield and less so in the laboratory, and he does that in his film. His extraction assault for Nakia in Nigeria is perfectly executed until she prevents him from attacking a child soldier. He leads the Korea mission, tells Okoye and Nakia what to do (and is the one that succeeds in capturing Klaue). He also is the one with the plan during the final battle, and he uses the mag-lev trains to exploit a flaw in Killmonger's suit.

With all of this considered I don't know how one can't say T'Challa isn't a genius. I want more of T'Challa outsmarting people and outfighting them with tactics. That has always been his shining quality as a genius. Priest never stated T'Challa invented his BP suit or gear (as far as I remember). It was how he used it that made him smart.

I would actually add that Shuris design potentially has a pretty fatal flaw as well. Yes the habit can be fit and taken anywhere and be inconspicuous, and we don't know how T'Challas suit is out on however, once the battle starts, if anyone knows how it works shuris design can be taken off in combat and they become defenseless. As we almost saw that happens to Erik had the suit not been powered by the Spears they would of succeeded.

[DigiCom]

I would actually add that Shuris design potentially has a pretty fatal flaw as well. Yes the habit can be fit and taken anywhere and be inconspicuous, and we don't know how T'Challas suit is out on however, once the battle starts, if anyone knows how it works shuris design can be taken off in combat and they become defenseless. As we almost saw that happens to Erik had the suit not been powered by the Spears they would of succeeded.

Powered by the Spears?

[XPac]

Everyone doesnt need a niche to be likable or successful. Redjack's Shuri in Panther Quest was much more interesting than any Shuri ive seen and she wasn't portrayed as out and out smarter than her brother.
Ill wait till Panther 2 to completely go off on his portrayal but as even Chris Priest said, that wasn't the Tchalla that fans of TCHALLA wanted to see. He was a royal version of wolverine. Wakanda was great though.

Shuri didn't need a niche to be likable ... But it helps as far as making her actually usable. Her being the smartest person on earth, especially with Stark gone and no MCU Reed as of now, means she potentially is the go-to smart person for the hero community.

[Mr MajestiK]

I had to watch the scene again, but it seems the implication is he made the Panther suit from Captain America: Civil War. When Shuri shows him his old suit to compare it to the new one she made, he says "My design." Short of him saying "I made it myself", I'm going to assume...he made it himself, maybe he used her lab but otherwise it was all him.

But that is sadly the only example of his genius we get, that I can think of. Tactician in how he beat Killmonger, there's that, too.

Shuri pointing out the distortion effect that the magnetized underground rail system had on the Panther suits, is what gave her brother the opening he used to ultimately best Killmonger, so we can't even say that T'Challa's win wasn't dependant on an assist from his little sister.

T'Challa was totally outclassed by Killmonger's outright and very focused ruthlessness across the board.

[Mr MajestiK]

But Coates didn't portray Shuri as a genius in his comic. If anything the movie is influencing the comic. Nakia? M'Baku? Shuri becoming more tech savvy? All of this was in the movie and is now working it's way back into the comics.

And in the movie, it was stated that T'Challa designed his first suit so it's not like he doesn't do tech.

I'm not going to work myself up about something that hasn't happened in the movie. All that speculation about the first movie and about 80-90% of it was wrong.

I don't even acknowledge any of the nonsense Coates has done with Shuri.

As for T'Challa's having designed the suit he wore in Captain America: Winter Soldier, I'm a firm believer in showing what a character can do as opposed to vague hints.

Stark was shown getting his hands dirty building his initial armoured suit clearly shown in the very first Iron Man movie.

T'Challa, no such luck.

[Cville]

Shuri pointing out the distortion effect that the magnetized underground rail system had on the Panther suits, is what gave her brother the opening he used to ultimately best Killmonger, so we can't even say that T'Challa's win wasn't dependant on an assist from his little sister.

T'Challa was totally outclassed by Killmonger's outright and very focused ruthlessness across the board.

Tchalla told Shuri to turn the tracks on. She pointed out the negative effects for the audience. Its not like Tchalla just wanted the trains on.

[Cville]

I don't even acknowledge any of the nonsense Coates has done with Shuri.

As for T'Challa's having designed the suit he wore in Captain America: Winter Soldier, I'm a firm believer in showing what a character can do as opposed to vague hints.

Stark was shown getting his hands dirty building his initial armoured suit clearly shown in the very first Iron Man movie.

T'Challa, no such luck.

He's never been shown making his own suit in the the comics. It's just always there. Even in Rise, he stated that he made it, but never showed him doing it.

[Mr MajestiK]

He's never been shown making his own suit in the the comics. It's just always there. Even in Rise, he stated that he made it, but never showed him doing it.

I merely used the issue of the suit to illustrate the wider issues surrounding T'Challa's genius level intellect (on paper) juxtaposed against the almost complete lack of actual evidence of said intellect as verifiable tech feats.

To my knowledge, Jonathan Maberry was the only BP writer who actually showed T'Challa's genius by way of the creation of his very own Shadow Physics in Doomwar.

A science created by T'Challa which wasn't dependant on any other geniuses inventions such as the repurposed cosmic power siphon designed by Dr Doom or the nanites Coates had T'Challa shooting up with. (Also derived from Doom tech)

[KingNomarch]

Shuri pointing out the distortion effect that the magnetized underground rail system had on the Panther suits, is what gave her brother the opening he used to ultimately best Killmonger, so we can't even say that T'Challa's win wasn't dependant on an assist from his little sister.

[B]T'Challa was totally outclassed by Killmonger's outright and very focused ruthlessness across the board.[B]

When was this the final battle? They basically shown to be equal there. The only thing he had on him was his ruthlessness and was only more focused during their challenge.

[Ezyo1000]

Everyone doesnt need a niche to be likable or successful. Redjack's Shuri in Panther Quest was much more interesting than any Shuri ive seen and she wasn't portrayed as out and out smarter than her brother.
Ill wait till Panther 2 to completely go off on his portrayal but as even Chris Priest said, that wasn't the Tchalla that fans of TCHALLA wanted to see. He was a royal version of wolverine. Wakanda was great though.

No.. Priest said it wasn't HIS T'Challa because his T'Challa is more of a prep master and this version was less experienced. He was more like hudlins witbp version when he first took over as King. Let's make sure we aren't getting thing's twisted

[MouserGrey]

This is how we should refer to Coates' Panther from now on.

How about T'Crappa?

[Ezyo1000]

See, the problem here is that we only thing being smart = being an inventor. Nothing against Redjack, but it's obvious his Shuri took a lot of inspiration from the MCU version, right down to her mannerisms, her look and the fact that she was portrayed more as an inventor (and possibly a better one) than T'Challa in that show. I advise you watch it again if you think I'm mistaken. Again, in that show T'Challa isn't shown to invent anything, but rather understanding and using technology to achieve his goals. Which defines Priest's T'Challa as he wrote him.

Here's an example to illustrate my point: if I said Natasha Romanoff was one of the smartest heroes in the MCU would you take me seriously? Your first thought would probably be that Natasha is more super spy assassin than genius because she hasn't invented anything. Yet Natasha is one of, if not the best hacker in that universe. She's practically unmatched in that field, and she's been able to hack into technology that rivals that of Starks, and Stark himself has machines do the hacking for him. She's also one of the world's best spies, which you have to be smart and have a high IQ in order to be.

How many feats of invention does T'Challa have in comparison to outsmarting, outmaneuvering, outfighting and outthinking people and figuring out situations? How many of his invention feats are significant to his own lore and the rest of the Marvel universe? The answer is and will always be not many, because that's never been his role.

Yeah redjacks version was very akin to priests version. He DID invent some things but mostly alot of his tech feats like that were on the fly like with the conch shell or when he was fighting Tony and TWS. Or in the previous season when he was fighting leader and his cabal and made a Sonic canon out of scraps and radio shack stuff.

Typo, sorry. I prefer T'Coates anyway.

I personally find T'Chumpa the bland panther to be my personal favorite in regards to Coates version.

I would love it if the next writer did a Godzilla situation when after that godawful Godzilla 2000 came out, Japan had the REAL Godzilla come in and destroy the fake American version in a spectacular fashion because they were so insulted by that one. Same thing here

[Cville]

Yeah redjacks version was very akin to priests version. He DID invent some things but mostly alot of his tech feats like that were on the fly like with the conch shell or when he was fighting Tony and TWS. Or in the previous season when he was fighting leader and his cabal and made a Sonic canon out of scraps and radio shack stuff.



I personally find T'Chumpa the bland panther to be my personal favorite in regards to Coates version.

I would love it if the next writer did a Godzilla situation when after that godawful Godzilla 2000 came out, Japan had the REAL Godzilla come in and destroy the fake American version in a spectacular fashion because they were so insulted by that one. Same thing here

That really happened in a Godzilla movie?

[DigiCom]

That really happened in a Godzilla movie?

Yes, in GODZILLA: FINAL WARS. Took about 15 seconds, too.

[Ezyo1000]

Shuri pointing out the distortion effect that the magnetized underground rail system had on the Panther suits, is what gave her brother the opening he used to ultimately best Killmonger, so we can't even say that T'Challa's win wasn't dependant on an assist from his little sister.

T'Challa was totally outclassed by Killmonger's outright and very focused ruthlessness across the board.

She pointed it out to Ross in the lab of how they were able to transport vibranium. In the final fight T'Challa tells her to turn on the train and she is shocked and says it will disable the suit, which he already knows that given how hate conversation goes down. That was HIS plan. The only assist she gave was turning on the train. Nothing else.

Watch that final fight again.



you quickly realize how outclassed Erik was the entire time