Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[XPac]

Hopefully Marvel realizes the creative team on Killmonger is great and doesn't hold it against them for the future.

I doubt their expectations were higher than what we're getting. Mini's like this seldom sell that well.

[Shadowcat]

Nothing to do with the current topic of conversation, but has any writer fleshed out the religious pantheon of the Wakandans? I know they worship Bast, but is there any other gods that they might worship? It’s an avenue I think some writers might be able to get a lot of mileage out of?

[Mike_Murdock]

WW= "Where's Wolverine", a sort of stealth crossover.

That would explain the sales boost, although I don't even remember the specific books he appeared in being solicited in advance.

I would like to see what he would do if he had say, 12 issue's or more to tell the story to really build up Erik

It's not a Maxi series and I'm not about to complain about what we got. Bryan Edward Hill seems very talented but that doesn't mean he had a 12 issue story to tell and that 12 issues would have been better than five.

[DigiCom]

Nothing to do with the current topic of conversation, but has any writer fleshed out the religious pantheon of the Wakandans? I know they worship Bast, but is there any other gods that they might worship? It’s an avenue I think some writers might be able to get a lot of mileage out of?

Yes & no.

In the Kirby/MacGregor era, they had a bunch of un-named animal gods: Panther, Lion, Crocodile, Gorilla, etc.

Priest turned the Panther God into Bast and tied him (her?) to the Egyptian pantheon.

And now Coates has thrown the whole thing out and replaced them with his Orishas, which have nothing to do with the Orisha already revealed in Marvel that are involved with the loa (who are also different from the loa introduced by Rick Remender in his Doctor Voodoo mini).

It's all a bit of a mess, really.

[XPac]

Nothing to do with the current topic of conversation, but has any writer fleshed out the religious pantheon of the Wakandans? I know they worship Bast, but is there any other gods that they might worship? It’s an avenue I think some writers might be able to get a lot of mileage out of?

In addition to the Panther God, Wakanda had an Ape god (which is tied to M'Baku), a Lion God and a Croc god. Lion God fought the Avengers once or twice. Not much was done with them, and YES that's an avenue BP writers should have gotten a lot more milage out of. Would have been a great source for new rogues.

Later Priest retconned the Panther God to be the Egyptian god Bast, and the Lion God to be the Egyptian god Hathor.

Coates may have retconned them them to being the Orisha rather than the Egyptian gods. But we don't exactly know what that means, other that it was implied they at one point might have been human.

It's kinda confusing honestly.

[Shadowcat]

Yes & no.

In the Kirby/MacGregor era, they had a bunch of un-named animal gods: Panther, Lion, Crocodile, Gorilla, etc.

Priest turned the Panther God into Bast and tied him (her?) to the Egyptian pantheon.

And now Coates has thrown the whole thing out and replaced them with his Orishas, which have nothing to do with the Orisha already revealed in Marvel that are involved with the loa (who are also different from the loa introduced by Rick Remender in his Doctor Voodoo mini).

It's all a bit of a mess, really.

In addition to the Panther God, Wakanda had an Ape god (which is tied to M'Baku), a Lion God and a Croc god. Lion God fought the Avengers once or twice. Not much was done with them, and YES that's an avenue BP writers should have gotten a lot more milage out of. Would have been a great source for new rogues.

Later Priest retconned the Panther God to be the Egyptian god Bast, and the Lion God to be the Egyptian god Hathor.

Coates may have retconned them them to being the Orisha rather than the Egyptian gods. But we don't exactly know what that means, other that it was implied they at one point might have been human.

It's kinda confusing honestly.

Thanks guys for extrapolating. I know there had been other gods mentioned from time to time, I just couldn’t remember if they had been fully fleshed out or not. It’s definitely an aspect on the BP and Wakandan mythology I’d like to see explored more. Maybe even to develop those from the other tribes.

[Ezyo1000]

That would explain the sales boost, although I don't even remember the specific books he appeared in being solicited in advance.



It's not a Maxi series and I'm not about to complain about what we got. Bryan Edward Hill seems very talented but that doesn't mean he had a 12 issue story to tell and that 12 issues would have been better than five.

I more so mean that his journey/ origin with Erik seems like it's going to have a rushed ending or come Right up to panthers rage. We haven't seen kilmonger. We have seen N'jadaka, I want to see whybhebwas such a threat to Tchalla abd how he came to be

[FLEX HECTIC]

With comic sales so low how exactly does Disney... OOPS I mean Marvel pay it's talent and then make a profit?

[FLEX HECTIC]

Happy MLK Day Wakandans!

[Montez]

Seems like people are enjoying these low sales for BP in this thread..

Be careful what you wish for because it will be years before BP gets this type of push again...

Im enjoying the ride and will continue to support all BP related material..

[DigiCom]

Seems like people are enjoying these low sales for BP in this thread..

Be careful what you wish for because it will be years before BP gets this type of push again...

Im enjoying the ride and will continue to support all BP related material..

Two points:

1. As long as BP has a big role in the MCU, the comics will push him. Marvel Editorial can't help themselves... they keep trying (and failing) to grab that movie audience. If poor sales meant a movie character wouldn't get a push, they wouldn't be relaunching Captain Marvel... again.

2. Take it from someone who has _literally_ been reading comics for 45 years: If you support bad material, it almost never improves. After all, if it sells, why change it? The reason folks around here are happy to see TNC cratering is because we hope it leads to Marvel realizing there are better writers for the character out there. Hell... there are better writers for the character in this thread! *waves at Redjack*

[Mike_Murdock]

Yes & no.

In the Kirby/MacGregor era, they had a bunch of un-named animal gods: Panther, Lion, Crocodile, Gorilla, etc.

I don't remember a Crocodile god, but I'm sure I'm missing it. I would argue that Marvel originally had Wakanda as henotheistic. They worshiped one god (the panther god) but recognized that other gods not worthy of worship existed. That being said, I'm not even 100% clear on this. I get the impression that worshipers of the White Gorilla cult did not believe in the panther god and vice versa. Additionally, the White Gorilla cult seemed to be based on actually seeing and fearing the monstrous white gorillas in the mountains.

It's the lion god more than anything else that I'm questioning. I don't recall any active lion god cult. It seemed to me that the presentation of the lion god is almost something that's been forgotten. The god saw itself as a rival to the panther god, but I'm not sure if it had any real worshipers or active cult. The lion god has also been retconned to be an Egyptian female deity. She specifically becomes Sekhmet (who I believe is a form of Hathor) who may be one of the cooler Egyptian gods.

[Montez]

Two points:

1. As long as BP has a big role in the MCU, the comics will push him. Marvel Editorial can't help themselves... they keep trying (and failing) to grab that movie audience. If poor sales meant a movie character wouldn't get a push, they wouldn't be relaunching Captain Marvel... again.

2. Take it from someone who has _literally_ been reading comics for 45 years: If you support bad material, it almost never improves. After all, if it sells, why change it? The reason folks around here are happy to see TNC cratering is because we hope it leads to Marvel realizing there are better writers for the character out there. Hell... there are better writers for the character in this thread! *waves at Redjack*

Damn you for making good points lol..

[Ezyo1000]

Two points:

1. As long as BP has a big role in the MCU, the comics will push him. Marvel Editorial can't help themselves... they keep trying (and failing) to grab that movie audience. If poor sales meant a movie character wouldn't get a push, they wouldn't be relaunching Captain Marvel... again.

2. Take it from someone who has _literally_ been reading comics for 45 years: If you support bad material, it almost never improves. After all, if it sells, why change it? The reason folks around here are happy to see TNC cratering is because we hope it leads to Marvel realizing there are better writers for the character out there. Hell... there are better writers for the character in this thread! *waves at Redjack*

This right here. Currently for BP, the name of the game is how much of a celebrity you are in some form of literature. Big name = potential new audience/ bigger sales. The problem being that none of these people coming in have any actual comic book writing experience and it shows... Hard. Then this gets amplified in a blind leading the blind when Coates gets put in charge of cowriting with other neophyte writers instead of having actual veterans off the medium there to help improve pacing, dialogue, development etc.

So after soon to be 3 years and 40 issues of combined poor quality comics for BP in which he has barely anything to show for it other then poor representation of T'Challa and Wakanda.. Yeah... *Waves frantically at Redjack*

[Rumble]

Two points:

1. As long as BP has a big role in the MCU, the comics will push him. Marvel Editorial can't help themselves... they keep trying (and failing) to grab that movie audience. If poor sales meant a movie character wouldn't get a push, they wouldn't be relaunching Captain Marvel... again.

2. Take it from someone who has _literally_ been reading comics for 45 years: If you support bad material, it almost never improves. After all, if it sells, why change it? The reason folks around here are happy to see TNC cratering is because we hope it leads to Marvel realizing there are better writers for the character out there. Hell... there are better writers for the character in this thread! *waves at Redjack*

We should just sticky this at the top of every page or make this a prerequisite for people to read before posting. It'd help delay all our impending carpal tunnel if we didn't have to explain this everytime the sales chart comes out