Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Ezyo1000]

Faustus uses mind control all the time. It's his thing. He used a similar trick to SHIELD at the start of the story, though he mentions what he used in Wakanda was new tech.

And any army can lose if someone uses mind control. It's no longer an issue of how powerful your army is at that point.

And Steve as a threat is watered down greatly when he loses 3 times in a row. T'Challa beat him and rubbed his face in it publically for the world to see... Hydra NEEDED that win. If you honestly don't see how that weakens Hydra then yeah... agree to disagree I guess. I'm sure if Wakanda lost in a story 3 times in a row to someone, you'd feel Wakanda was coming off weak. Same thing applies to Hydra or really just about anyone.

Could they have completely changed the story so that its build around Wakanda? In theory yes... if it was a BP story. Or they could have built it around the mutant nation if it was an X-Men story. Or they could have built it around Attilan if it were an Inhuman story. BUt it's a Captain America story, and Wakanda frankly was just a side thing like Attilan and the Mutant Nation and the various other places in the MU.

New tech that takes control of an entire army? Yeah I'm calling bullisht. It was PIS hence why when Faustus mentions it. There is no explanation on how he acquired it and it's a one and done but it's so powerful of mindcontrol that it's hitting Omega level of control?? PIS. My version doesn't weakened Hydra because Steve still gets the crystal in the end. It's respecting what's happening on the story. If it was so easy to beat Wakanda then what the hell is the point of T'Challa calling him out other then to embarrass him?

That change revolves the heroes Making a stand in Wakanda and still losing, despite winning the battle. It's basically act 3 in infinity war. Literally the exact same scenario and outcome. Wakanda repelled the invasion but the snap still happened. Did the failed invasion weaken Thanos army? No, did the heroes still lose while Wakanda remained undefeated? Yes. Same exact concept. Dunno what's hard to understand here

[DigiCom]

Oh, that's easy. We're meant to accept the stories blindly, whether they make sense or not. Actually using critical thought is forbidden.

[XPac]

New tech that takes control of an entire army? Yeah I'm calling bullisht. It was PIS hence why when Faustus mentions it. There is no explanation on how he acquired it and it's a one and done but it's so powerful of mindcontrol that it's hitting Omega level of control?? PIS. My version doesn't weakened Hydra because Steve still gets the crystal in the end. It's respecting what's happening on the story. If it was so easy to beat Wakanda then what the hell is the point of T'Challa calling him out other then to embarrass him?

That change revolves the heroes Making a stand in Wakanda and still losing, despite winning the battle. It's basically act 3 in infinity war. Literally the exact same scenario and outcome. Wakanda repelled the invasion but the snap still happened. Did the failed invasion weaken Thanos army? No, did the heroes still lose while Wakanda remained undefeated? Yes. Same exact concept. Dunno what's hard to understand here

His old tech was able to take control of SHIELD earlier in the story, so it's not like they didn't set this up.

As far as Infinity War... I wouldn't qualify that as repelling the invasion either. I'd say that was a loss too. They drew Wanda and the stone out, were unable to repell THanos from taking the gem, and he proceeded to kill half of them. That's a defeat all around for everyone.

We'll have to agree to disagree tha 3 consecutive loses don't make them look bad. I'll wager if Wakanda had 3 consecutive loses, you'd probably think otherwise. Really anyone that ends up losing 3 straight battles in a row is going to look pretty bad.

Again, your priority is making Wakanda look as good as possible... but it wasn't Spencers anymore than it was to make Atlantis or Attilan look as good as possible. None of these other places were particular important to the story. They were literally there JUST to Hydra could ultimately get the upperhand on them.

[Ezyo1000]

Oh, that's easy. We're meant to accept the stories blindly, whether they make sense or not. Actually using critical thought is forbidden.

And apparently jist be cool with whatever a writer decides and always defend it no matter how stupid it osnor how much it goes against established continuity and always try to excuse it by saying it happens on real life so therefore it's okay to happen in fiction

[DigiCom]

And apparently jist be cool with whatever a writer decides and always defend it no matter how stupid it osnor how much it goes against established continuity and always try to excuse it by saying it happens on real life so therefore it's okay to happen in fiction

Precisely. When we see a bad story, we're supposed to make excuses and keep giving Marvel our money, while thanking them for the privilege.

"Thank you, Coates! May I have another!"

[The Cool Thatguy]

His old tech was able to take control of SHIELD earlier in the story, so it's not like they didn't set this up. .

The difference is that Faustus had direct access to Shield, thanks to Cap, before anyone knew that he was Stevil.

In comparison, T'Challa knew that Cap was coming for the fragment, knew who was on his council and knew what tactics he might try.

So Wakanda's loss is even worse than Shield's. They were caught unprepared by someone with inside access.

Wakanda? Not so much.

[XPac]

Oh, that's easy. We're meant to accept the stories blindly, whether they make sense or not. Actually using critical thought is forbidden.

It's a comic book, so you sort of have to pick your battles. Not everything is going to be completely realistic or make sense by real world standards. It's a comic book afterall.

There are PLENTY of things I've seen in comics that are at least as unbelievable as Faustus using mind control to beat an army. Doom has taken control of the planet twice ... Faustus doing it to an army, after he already did it earlier in the story I can honestly live with.

For magical and tech plot devices critical thought for the most part doesn't come into play too heavily It's made up tech, with made up rules. If Spencer says someone creates tech which can control an army (something I've seen before), I can't say it's that big a deal honestly.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Precisely. When we see a bad story, we're supposed to make excuses and keep giving Marvel our money, while thanking them for the privilege.

"Thank you, Coates! May I have another!"

*Sniff*

"He hurts me because he loves me!"

Yes, I'm going to hell. Shut up

[Ezyo1000]

His old tech was able to take control of SHIELD earlier in the story, so it's not like they didn't set this up.

As far as Infinity War... I wouldn't qualify that as repelling the invasion either. I'd say that was a loss too. They drew Wanda and the stone out, were unable to repell THanos from taking the gem, and he proceeded to kill half of them. That's a defeat all around for everyone.

We'll have to agree to disagree tha 3 consecutive loses don't make them look bad. I'll wager if Wakanda had 3 consecutive loses, you'd probably think otherwise. Really anyone that ends up losing 3 straight battles in a row is going to look pretty bad.

Again, your priority is making Wakanda look as good as possible... but it wasn't Spencers anymore than it was to make Atlantis or Attilan look as good as possible. None of these other places were particular important to the story. They were literally there JUST to Hydra could ultimately get the upperhand on them.

And with shield they had already infiltrated and so therefore sure it's easier to do. When your attacking an advanced nation as Wakanda and they are expecting you, I don't think it would be that easy.

As for Infinity war.. really? So killing all of the Black order, AND the army retreating back to their ship and getting slaughtered isn't repelling them? Thanos won because he happened to get the last gem because he won his fight and got the time Stone.. His army lost. That's a fact. Again, Wakanda won the battle but the heroes lost the war.

My priority is for stories to make sense and take a logical story telling route. If the only way your story progresses is through PIS and random ass pulls.. then its a bad story. Just because Wakanda lost before doesn't mean they just lose to anybody now. Guarantee if Hickman dodnt destroy Wakanda, my version would of happened. But this whole oh they lost once now they can go on a losing streak is stupid and lazy writing

[XPac]

And apparently jist be cool with whatever a writer decides and always defend it no matter how stupid it osnor how much it goes against established continuity and always try to excuse it by saying it happens on real life so therefore it's okay to happen in fiction

What established continuity did this go against?

[XPac]

And with shield they had already infiltrated and so therefore sure it's easier to do. When your attacking an advanced nation as Wakanda and they are expecting you, I don't think it would be that easy.

As for Infinity war.. really? So killing all of the Black order, AND the army retreating back to their ship and getting slaughtered isn't repelling them? Thanos won because he happened to get the last gem because he won his fight and got the time Stone.. His army lost. That's a fact. Again, Wakanda won the battle but the heroes lost the war.

My priority is for stories to make sense and take a logical story telling route. If the only way your story progresses is through PIS and random ass pulls.. then its a bad story. Just because Wakanda lost before doesn't mean they just lose to anybody now. Guarantee if Hickman dodnt destroy Wakanda, my version would of happened. But this whole oh they lost once now they can go on a losing streak is stupid and lazy writing

Cleary the story isn't saying that Wakanda can just lose to anybody now, because they beat Hydra 2 out of 3 times. That doesn't mean it's easy to beat Wakanda... it just means it's not impossible. I get that you want Wakanda to be unbeatable, but sometimes the good guys have to take a few "L's" in storytelling. This is one of those times. Again, Wakanda did a heck of a lot better than pretty much everyone else.

[DigiCom]

It's a comic book, so you sort of have to pick your battles. Not everything is going to be completely realistic or make sense by real world standards. It's a comic book afterall.

That's not an excuse. That's an admission of failure.

This is not 1939, or 1957. If you want to be considered a serious writer in comics, you can't turn around and say "Well, it's comics! It doesn't HAVE to make sense!"

Telling a story that makes sense is the writer's job. If you can't do that... you aren't a good writer. You may have lots of ideas, and a message that you think is important, but you're still a hack.

[The Cool Thatguy]

That's not an excuse. That's an admission of failure.

This is not 1939, or 1957. If you want to be considered a serious writer in comics, you can't turn around and say "Well, it's comics! It doesn't HAVE to make sense!"

Telling a story that makes sense is the writer's job. If you can't do that... you aren't a good writer. You may have lots of ideas, and a message that you think is important, but you're still a hack.

Seriously.

I don't think Wakanda should be immune to the crap that happens in comics, but by its nature, you gotta make the effort to sell it.

Several proven super geniuses working in tandem? I can buy them strolling through Wakanda unseen, especially when the writer takes pains to emphasize the efforts made.

Repeating the same damn trick from earlier in the story?

No. That's bad writing, and just plain lazy.

[Ezyo1000]

The difference is that Faustus had direct access to Shield, thanks to Cap, before anyone knew that he was Stevil.

In comparison, T'Challa knew that Cap was coming for the fragment, knew who was on his council and knew what tactics he might try.

So Wakanda's loss is even worse than Shield's. They were caught unprepared by someone with inside access.

Wakanda? Not so much.

Hey you can't argue you! Spencer said it happens that way so you have to just accept it! No questions, no complaints, no argument about how it doesn't make sense or that it's PIS.. BLINDLY ACCEPT!!!

[XPac]

That's not an excuse. That's an admission of failure.

This is not 1939, or 1957. If you want to be considered a serious writer in comics, you can't turn around and say "Well, it's comics! It doesn't HAVE to make sense!"

Telling a story that makes sense is the writer's job. If you can't do that... you aren't a good writer. You may have lots of ideas, and a message that you think is important, but you're still a hack.

I agree the story should make sense... but I don't think the plot devices necessarily need to. Stuff works the way it does because the writers say it does. THese things don't exist in real life... in a comic book world who says you can't mind control an amy anymore than you can shrink or travel through time or teleport. It's the nature of the genre.