Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[XPac]

Hey you can't argue you! Spencer said it happens that way so you have to just accept it! No questions, no complaints, no argument about how it doesn't make sense or that it's PIS.. BLINDLY ACCEPT!!!

Kind of yeah. If Spencer says that Faustus has tech which can mind control an army, then we have to pretty much accept that he does because it's canon once it's printed on paper. Why can the breathing gun given to Blade kill angels and demons? Because marvel says so. Why do fragments from Supermans own home planet kill him? Because someone in DC said so. You can question or complain or argue about it, but in the end if it makes in in print in a comics then it becomes canon, at least until someone retcons it.

[Ezyo1000]

Cleary the story isn't saying that Wakanda can just lose to anybody now, because they beat Hydra 2 out of 3 times. That doesn't mean it's easy to beat Wakanda... it just means it's not impossible. I get that you want Wakanda to be unbeatable, but sometimes the good guys have to take a few "L's" in storytelling. This is one of those times. Again, Wakanda did a heck of a lot better than pretty much everyone else.

At that stage the heroes had been losing the entire time. Again see my IW comparison. Won the battle lost the war. And it's not about being unbeatable as its more so about being beatbin a logical way thats not lazy writing to kove the plot along

[Ezyo1000]

Kind of yeah. If Spencer says that Faustus has tech which can mind control an army, then we have to pretty much accept that he does because it's canon once it's printed on paper. Why can the breathing gun given to Blade kill angels and demons? Because marvel says so. Why do fragments from Supermans own home planet kill him? Because someone in DC said so. You can question or complain or argue about it, but in the end if it makes in in print in a comics then it becomes canon, at least until someone retcons it.

those are different. It would be like Supermans planet or blades guns couldn't do those things then all of a sudden they can because the story needs to move along

[XPac]

At that stage the heroes had been losing the entire time. Again see my IW comparison. Won the battle lost the war. And it's not about being unbeatable as its more so about being beatbin a logical way thats not lazy writing to kove the plot along

So if Wakanda in a story lost 3 straight battles in a row but won the war (as heroes always do anyways), you wouldn't think that makes them look bad? Cause again, I'd say that pretty much ANYONE who loses 3 straight times in a row isn't being written all that strong.

[XPac]

those are different. It would be like Supermans planet or blades guns couldn't do those things then all of a sudden they can because the story needs to move along

Faustus did it earlier in the story with SHIELD, so they were setting this up.

[DigiCom]

I agree the story should make sense... but I don't think the plot devices necessarily need to. Stuff works the way it does because the writers say it does. THese things don't exist in real life... in a comic book world who says you can't mind control an amy anymore than you can shrink or travel through time or teleport. It's the nature of the genre.

The magic words are "internal consistency". You have to set up the limits of suspension of disbelief, otherwise it's just pulling a story resolution out of thin air.

This is actually one of the things that turned me off Hickman, back in the day. He LOVES pulling plot twists out of nowhere, starting with the "magic LMD" in Secret Warriors. And he's only gotten worse since.

[XPac]

The magic words are "internal consistency". You have to set up the limits of suspension of disbelief, otherwise it's just pulling a story resolution out of thin air.

This is actually one of the things that turned me off Hickman, back in the day. He LOVES pulling plot twists out of nowhere, starting with the "magic LMD" in Secret Warriors. And he's only gotten worse since.

Faustus controlled SHIELD at the beginning of the story , and later the Wakandan army later in the story. There's descent consistency there. That's pretty much what Faustus is there for.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Faustus controlled SHIELD at the beginning of the story , and later the Wakandan army later in the story. There's descent consistency there. That's pretty much what Faustus is there for.

The first time, he was inside of Shield and had the element of surprise.

Second time, he was up against the most advanced nation on the planet.

Things should have gone differently.

[XPac]

The first time, he was inside of Shield and had the element of surprise.

Second time, he was up against the most advanced nation on the planet.

Things should have gone differently.

Doing it with Wakanda makes it potentially harder, but not necessarily impossible.

And honestly they probably were taken by surprise, not by the attack by rather the change in tactics Hydra employed. The first 2 invasions were straight up military invasions. In round 3 they hit Wakanda with something entirely different.

[DigiCom]

Faustus controlled SHIELD at the beginning of the story , and later the Wakandan army later in the story. There's descent consistency there. That's pretty much what Faustus is there for.

I didn't read the story, so I can't really address the problem directly... but it does beg the question... if they can control entire armies... how'd they ever lose?

[XPac]

I didn't read the story, so I can't really address the problem directly... but it does beg the question... if they can control entire armies... how'd they ever lose?

You can lose even with the ability to control armies because armies don't decide who wins or loses in comics. Armies consist of red shirts that seldom if ever matter in the grand scheme of things.

Actual characters like T'Challa and Sharon were able to shrug off Faustus control, so it was never a deciding factor.

[DigiCom]

You can lose even with the ability to control armies because armies don't decide who wins or loses in comics. Armies consist of red shirts that seldom if ever matter in the grand scheme of things.

Actual characters like T'Challa and Sharon were able to shrug off Faustus control, so it was never a deciding factor.

That's fair... although I would think it would be less effective when you know it's coming... and have a history of developing contingency plans for unexpected situations.

[XPac]

That's fair... although I would think it would be less effective when you know it's coming... and have a history of developing contingency plans for unexpected situations.

Firstly we don't know for a fact that he know it was coming since it wasn't exactly public knowledge that it was used against SHIELD. And it's not like they used it in their 2 earlier attempts at invading Wakanda.

Secondly, the book does point out that what Faustus is using is new tech, so even if T'Challa was prepared for it (and there's no actual indication that he was), there's no gurantee that being prepped against what was used before would necessarily work in this instance.

Ultimately they needed a way for Hydra to beat Wakanda in like 2 pages (would have been nice if Wakanda got it's one mini with the event but it is what it is), and mind control was a way to do it. There probably could have been other ways... they had a Cthon controlled Wanda on their side for example. But mind control gets the job done, and was used earlier in the story. So why not?

[DigiCom]

Secondly, the book does point out that what Faustus is using is new tech, so even if T'Challa was prepared for it (and there's no actual indication that he was), there's no gurantee that being prepped against what was used before would necessarily work in this instance.

[XPac]

Unfortunately the rest of the Wakandan army didn't have such training.