Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Mr MajestiK]

[QUOTE=dkrook;4710839]

There is no logical reason why Black Panther enthusiasts should remain so passive in the face of what Coates is doing.

For those of you who don't like what's happening but stay buying the book, why?

Vote with your wallet since that's the only language Marvel pays heed to.

Simple.[/QUOTE

THIS...Marvel is showing how tone deaf they are with this mess! They are this determined and willing to keep his incompetent stain on the book even as customer base chills on this. Something else has to be afoot here. Marvel has shown willingness to end a contract with hyped writers before. Walker never has this long of a leash.

Agreed 100%.

Walker got shut down with the quickness despite the demonstrable fact that his Powerman & Iron Fist book was all types of cool and awesome.

His Nighthawk solo was terrible and unfocused so it was kind of inevitable that his contract came to an end.

Coates has been a blight to the BP mythos from day one but as a result of his initially high sales figures, Marvel saw no need to recognise the long term damage that his tone deaf approach would eventually begin to have on future sales.

Doubling down on support for his contract at this point when sales have dropped beneath cancellation figures, is just inexplicable to say the least.

[Mr MajestiK]

I mean it's VERY clear Coates favors everybody over T'Challa in his own damn book. Let me put it this way, as I said a few pages back. In the entirety of Coates writing BP, 40+ issues in, T'Challa has NEVER defeated a villain by himself. Never. He always has help you know the last time he tried? Issue two. He goes alone to capture Zenzi and loses. After that, Everytime he faces a villain it's with help. Coates took the phrase "No one Man (should have that much power)" and literally took it to mean, for T'Challa, he cannot and will not ever do anything of his own power to handle a situation alone. He literally doesn't have the power to overcome any villain to date without needing someone else there to help.

And in 3 different occasions he didn't even defeated the main villain. Adversary on S2, and twice nownin S3 with N'Jadaka, first time is nu-Achebe a character no gives a isht about, second time is Okoye (who also I said issue appears to be the main character in the action shot before the fight while T'Challa takes the role of support. I mean it's clear that T'Challa onl "wins" in Coates book because he has to have him win because he's the title Character, if Coates could do whatever he wanted without consequences i have no doubt he would of retired or killed T'Challa off in S1 in favor of his pet Characters

But apparently, we're the "Usual Suspects" for making these observations and raising concerns in this regard.

[Redjack]

storm's not a goddess.

she was mistaken for one by the "simple african tribesmen" Len Wein made up in the 1970s because that's how much he knew about actual Africa.

she allowed these people to worship her because she had no idea what a mutant was at the time and needed a break from being a street thief on the run from the shadow king.

not a goddess. the end.

the idea that Wakandans, in particular, would worship her is [redacted]ing stupid.

[Ezyo1000]

I was using the Hulk Buster as a separate thing from intelligence. It was just a cool moment. If it happened in the 616 it be fire. But Tchalla is definitely written as a side character. Baker for sure wanted to write a Shuri book, but for stuck with the title BP.

What Shuri needs is her own series of young adult novels. Putting Nancy Drew level books in schools and libraries would be a big help for her.

What beeds to happen is for professional writers who want to and actually give a isht about elevating T'CHALLA need to be put on the book (frakking give Redjack his bast damn chance to pen an awesome BP) and for Marvel to focus on building up T'Challa before trying to build others using his mythos.
With marvel comics division, They are doing the exact same thing dceu did with their movies abd subsequently the reason they failed. They are trying to rush catch up with the MCU without actually spending the time needed to make it work. If they want to promote Shuri then get writers of actual talent and do it. Frankly thos Kyle guy writes a decent MCU Shuri abd had this been titled Shuri sbd she was doing her own thing separate fron T'Challa (like made a point to say T'Challa is handling business withnthe Avengers and is currently out of Wakanda) this book wouldn't be that bad, but it's not hers abd as such its a ishtty no book

[stormphoenix]

I really respect the fact that you genuinely engage with folks I here and refrain from trying to diminish our points by referring to us as being the "Usual suspects" elsewhere for pointing out our issues with Foates wilful mischaracterising of T'Challa and Wakanda.

As for the whole "godhood" thing, I personally do not believe that a human mutant or otherwise born of man and woman should ever be elevated to god level status regardless o whether they self rerence themselves as being so or not.

Peace.

I understand what you mean. And your Welcome sir. I think it's fascinating that this Writer(IMO) is new can cause this much issues.

I mean it's VERY clear Coates favors everybody over T'Challa in his own damn book. Let me put it this way, as I said a few pages back. In the entirety of Coates writing BP, 40+ issues in, T'Challa has NEVER defeated a villain by himself. Never. He always has help you know the last time he tried? Issue two. He goes alone to capture Zenzi and loses. After that, Everytime he faces a villain it's with help. Coates took the phrase "No one Man (should have that much power)" and literally took it to mean, for T'Challa, he cannot and will not ever do anything of his own power to handle a situation alone. He literally doesn't have the power to overcome any villain to date without needing someone else there to help.

And in 3 different occasions he didn't even defeated the main villain. Adversary on S2, and twice nownin S3 with N'Jadaka, first time is nu-Achebe a character no gives a isht about, second time is Okoye (who also I said issue appears to be the main character in the action shot before the fight while T'Challa takes the role of support. I mean it's clear that T'Challa onl "wins" in Coates book because he has to have him win because he's the title Character, if Coates could do whatever he wanted without consequences i have no doubt he would of retired or killed T'Challa off in S1 in favor of his pet Characters

I'm glad you said that because that's why I said I find him more interesting in Avengers and AoW more than his Solo. It just seems like when **** hit's the fan T'Challa doesn't know what to do, but in Avegners he's like "I'm On It"

Well, I won't argue with you there sir.

storm's not a goddess.

she was mistaken for one by the "simple african tribesmen" Len Wein made up in the 1970s because that's how much he knew about actual Africa.

she allowed these people to worship her because she had no idea what a mutant was at the time and needed a break from being a street thief on the run from the shadow king.

not a goddess. the end.

the idea that Wakandans, in particular, would worship her is [redacted]ing stupid.

I think it's better that your response is better discussed on a Storm thread.....

[Cville]

storm's not a goddess.

she was mistaken for one by the "simple african tribesmen" Len Wein made up in the 1970s because that's how much he knew about actual Africa.

she allowed these people to worship her because she had no idea what a mutant was at the time and needed a break from being a street thief on the run from the shadow king.

not a goddess. the end.

the idea that Wakandans, in particular, would worship her is [redacted]ing stupid.

[Mr MajestiK]

storm's not a goddess.

she was mistaken for one by the "simple african tribesmen" Len Wein made up in the 1970s because that's how much he knew about actual Africa.

she allowed these people to worship her because she had no idea what a mutant was at the time and needed a break from being a street thief on the run from the shadow king.

not a goddess. the end.

the idea that Wakandans, in particular, would worship her is [redacted]ing stupid.

That's not what Ta Nehisi Coates seems to think though.

[Cville]

Riri got the honorary Wakandan citizenship before Miles did. Need Saladin to get in that. Lol.

[Ezyo1000]

storm's not a goddess.

she was mistaken for one by the "simple african tribesmen" Len Wein made up in the 1970s because that's how much he knew about actual Africa.

she allowed these people to worship her because she had no idea what a mutant was at the time and needed a break from being a street thief on the run from the shadow king.

not a goddess. the end.

the idea that Wakandans, in particular, would worship her is [redacted]ing stupid.

This.

I mean its pretty clear for instance on Hudlin era that though Wakandans call Storm a thunder goddess, they don't actually think she IS an actual goddess, he they call Monica a sun goddess. It's more so they use it as a term of endearment or respect and not the literal term.

But Coates Saw it as an opportunity to retcon the whole patheon and mythos and in turn weakened Wakanda abd T'Challa in the process. And the worst part? Nobody in the MU recognize it. So who does it benefit? Not storm because no one mentions it. Not T'Challa because his mythos had to take a hit for into be implemented. There is literally nothing special about Coates T'Challa or Wakanda.

Something Priest, Hudlin, and yourself made sure to showcase very early and very clearly how special BP and Wakanda are

[Mr MajestiK]

I understand what you mean. And your Welcome sir. I think it's fascinating that this Writer(IMO) is new can cause this much issues.


I'm glad you said that because that's why I said I find him more interesting in Avengers and AoW more than his Solo. It just seems like when **** hit's the fan T'Challa doesn't know what to do, but in Avegners he's like "I'm On It"

Well, I won't argue with you there sir.



I think it's better that your response is better discussed on a Storm thread.....

To be honest with you, it's not Coates "newness" that's the issue here.

As pointed out hy others in this thread, David Liss was new to writing comics when he was initially commissioned to write a BP run and he genuinely knocked it out of the park despite the fact that many BP fans weren't happy with the premise of T'Challa slumming it as a replacement for Daredevil in New York.

Our acceptance of David Liss came out of the fact that even though he was writing a depowered T'Challa cut off from Wakandan resources and wealth by his own design, he still had the titular character, use his brains, intellect, inventiveness and strategic awareness to deal with all manner of threats he encountered.

And even when Storm, Fslcon, Luke Cage and Shuri showed up in the book, Liss gave all of them shine without sacrificing T'Challa's being the central factor pulling the whole saga together.

Contrast that to Coates total mischarcterisation of the BP mythos before he even started writing the book and you'll get a clearer understanding as to why he gets short thrift within this thread.

[Mr MajestiK]

This.

I mean its pretty clear for instance on Hudlin era that though Wakandans call Storm a thunder goddess, they don't actually think she IS an actual goddess, he they call Monica a sun goddess. It's more so they use it as a term of endearment or respect and not the literal term.

But Coates Saw it as an opportunity to retcon the whole patheon and mythos and in turn weakened Wakanda abd T'Challa in the process. And the worst part? Nobody in the MU recognize it. So who does it benefit? Not storm because no one mentions it. Not T'Challa because his mythos had to take a hit for into be implemented. There is literally nothing special about Coates T'Challa or Wakanda.

Something Priest, Hudlin, and yourself made sure to showcase very early and very clearly how special BP and Wakanda are

Agreed 100%.

[Ezyo1000]

I understand what you mean. And your Welcome sir. I think it's fascinating that this Writer(IMO) is new can cause this much issues.


I'm glad you said that because that's why I said I find him more interesting in Avengers and AoW more than his Solo. It just seems like when **** hit's the fan T'Challa doesn't know what to do, but in Avegners he's like "I'm On It"

Well, I won't argue with you there sir.



I think it's better that your response is better discussed on a Storm thread.....

My friend... Coates T'Challa calls on anybody and everything other then his own intelligence. D list villains? Crew, strucker twins? Random ass limbo character, klaw? Whos been handled by T'Challa countless times? Thunderball. Adversary? Everybody oray to storn quick she will handle it!

And people (Coates included) want to claim Coates is showcasing T'Challa as the greatest BP ever?

T'Challa, Namor, your thoughts?

[stormphoenix]

To be honest with you, it's not Coates "newness" that's the issue here.

As pointed out hy others in this thread, David Liss was new to writing comics when he was initially commissioned to write a BP run and he genuinely knocked it out of the park despite the fact that many BP fans weren't happy with the premise of T'Challa slumming it as a replacement for Daredevil in New York.

Our acceptance of David Liss came out of the fact that even though he was writing a depowered T'Challa cut off from Wakandan resources and wealth by his own design, he still had the titular character, use his brains, intellect, inventiveness and strategic awareness to deal with all manner of threats he encountered.

And even when Storm, Fslcon, Luke Cage and Shuri showed up in the book, Liss gave all of them shine without sacrificing T'Challa's being the central factor pulling the whole saga together.

Contrast that to Coates total mischarcterisation of the BP mythos before he even started writing the book and you'll get a clearer understanding as to why he gets short thrift within this thread.

Ok, Fair Point on that....

[KingNomarch]

storm's not a goddess.

she was mistaken for one by the "simple african tribesmen" Len Wein made up in the 1970s because that's how much he knew about actual Africa.

she allowed these people to worship her because she had no idea what a mutant was at the time and needed a break from being a street thief on the run from the shadow king.

not a goddess. the end.

the idea that Wakandans, in particular, would worship her is [redacted]ing stupid.

[Mr MajestiK]

Ok, Fair Point on that....

I genuinely wish you'd frequented this thread pre-CBR reboot to have seen how much love Ororo got back in the pre AvX days.