Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[DigiCom]

The first Lego set for BP2:

[MindofShadow]

If you mean the plot, I heard it called more Shakespearean than realistic.

If you mean the setting… Really?

Now, I'll give you Killmonger's motivations were very "realistic". But here's the key bit... despite the vaunted "Coates influence" in the movie (which, as has already been prought up, is more accurately called a Stelfreeze influence) that's one thing I KNOW Coogler came up with himself...

Because Coates didn't write a single word about Killmonger until AFTER the movie.

To circle back to this:


And this is the type of "social commentary" you would expect, on paper, from Coates (before he started talking about the franchise lol)

And he coudlnt' see it, in any way (no one did). So to get his woke social commentary crap, he fell back into stereotypes and covered those stereotypes up by making maps, "borrowing" poems, adding african sounding names to cities, african sounding titles "damarki sarki or whateve the hell its spelled." It was all superficial stuff to give the illusion of someone that "studied the history of black folk" and "really dug into Wakanda"

He was brought in to be woke but lacked the imagination and desire to do a "woke" story about Wakanda, so he changed Wakanda into something he knows (african stereotypes) and ran with that instead.

[Vibranium Weave]

To circle back to this:


And this is the type of "social commentary" you would expect, on paper, from Coates (before he started talking about the franchise lol)

And he coudlnt' see it, in any way (no one did). So to get his woke social commentary crap, he fell back into stereotypes and covered those stereotypes up by making maps, "borrowing" poems, adding african sounding names to cities, african sounding titles "damarki sarki or whateve the hell its spelled." It was all superficial stuff to give the illusion of someone that "studied the history of black folk" and "really dug into Wakanda"

He was brought in to be woke but lacked the imagination and desire to do a "woke" story about Wakanda, so he changed Wakanda into something he knows (african stereotypes) and ran with that instead.

He ran with Negative African Stereotypes and the plight of Black people, because that is what he knows

Unlike Coogler, who showed positive aspects of the African continent. Plus, Chadwick likes Priest version of Panther the best and will have some creative input in the movies with Coogler

[Devaishwarya]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Black Panther mythos before Coates arrival on the scene and unlike some, most Black Panther enthusiasts and unabashed appreciates of T'Challa and his world were quite happy with where Hickman left the BP mythos at the close of Secret Wars II.

Most of us, were equally enthused with what Al Ewing was doing in The Ultimates book where T'Challa Wakandan technology and finances were integral to the Alpha Flight programme to defend Earth from all manner of cosmological threats.

We didn't need T'Challa to be deified as a "god" or be anything other than the super genius level intellect and dutiful King of Wakanda.

Most Black Panther enthusiasts remain unimpressed with flowery prose or faux "woke" ideological stances applied to an Afrofuturistic premise that existed way before the phrase was coined.

And we sure as Bast, don't deserve a writer on T'Challa's "solo" book who felt the need to ignore the launchpad of excellence that Jonathan Hickman provided in favour of rape camps, manufactured gender inequality and a rampantly misogynistic Boko Haram aesthetic.

Thank you.
I'm not buying any Black Panther solo books until Coates is removed as writer.

[Vibranium Weave]

I'm not buying any Black Panther solo books until Coates is removed as writer.

Question:

At this point, what if for the next story line Coates worked with an artist like Steelfrezze & Acuna and delivered an epic action packed story line with amazing feats of intellect, fighting ability, strategy, and wakandan tech that rivaled Priest & Narcisse. Say, due to poor sales and the MCU hype,Coates has a change of heart, but doesn't retcon or explain away his previous writings of BP.

Could people in this forum collect those issues and support Coates at this point? Could you forgive the other stuff?

I have wondered this for myself.

Also, why are they doing a renumbering of Coates' Cap America? I thought it was doing well.

[Devaishwarya]

Absolutely no forgiveness from me. One decent (he doesn't have it in him to produce the excellence you gave as example) storyline will not erase the large steaming pile of excrement that is sitting in the bowl and is hard to ignore.

Coates as a comic book writer does not exist.

[Mr MajestiK]

To circle back to this:


And this is the type of "social commentary" you would expect, on paper, from Coates (before he started talking about the franchise lol)

And he coudlnt' see it, in any way (no one did). So to get his woke social commentary crap, he fell back into stereotypes and covered those stereotypes up by making maps, "borrowing" poems, adding african sounding names to cities, african sounding titles "damarki sarki or whateve the hell its spelled." It was all superficial stuff to give the illusion of someone that "studied the history of black folk" and "really dug into Wakanda"

He was brought in to be woke but lacked the imagination and desire to do a "woke" story about Wakanda, so he changed Wakanda into something he knows (african stereotypes) and ran with that instead.

Thank you for this beautiful post.

[Mr MajestiK]

Absolutely no forgiveness from me. One decent (he doesn't have it in him to produce the excellence you gave as example) storyline will not erase the large steaming pile of excrement that is sitting in the bowl and is hard to ignore.

Coates as a comic book writer does not exist.

Agreed 100%.

[Ezyo1000]

Part of the reason it was so loved critically and got awards love was how "real life" was in it. The fantasy aspects while good also suffered from streamling stuff we've seen in 10 other Marvel films. The further you push the better.


Keep telling yourself that man. I expect more of a Coates influence in the sequel. However, its Coates, but with Coogler's deft hand/craftsmanship.

Its a struggle for people to understand that the director can successful adapt what DOES work and leave out what wouldn't translate.

Expect more? You know how much influence of Coates (that was actually his own influence and not stelfreeze's, whos credit is always Given to Coates?) Was actually in the movie? Ayo. That's it. Ayo was the only influence and really it was in name only.

Force push, kimoyo beads, aesthetics where inspired by stelfreeze's and that's his contribution. Everything else, was inspired by Priest, McGregor, and Hudlin. And that's based on on actually what's in the movie. We know Shuri is from Hudlin as are the look of the Dora's, we know Okoye, Zuri and Nakia are from Priest, as are the war dog name. ramonda, wkabi, and the take down of the rhino are from McGregor.. Where is all this Coates influence?

There's actually nothing from his story, other then names that can be adapted because his stories are so far different and regressive from what Coogler set up.

Again there needs to be influence for it to work and Coogler was inspired by Priest panther so I expect to see more of that version sprinkled in with Hudlins as well. Hell if be more likely to bet we would see more inspiration from Redjacks panther then Coates

[Cville]

Question:

At this point, what if for the next story line Coates worked with an artist like Steelfrezze & Acuna and delivered an epic action packed story line with amazing feats of intellect, fighting ability, strategy, and wakandan tech that rivaled Priest & Narcisse. Say, due to poor sales and the MCU hype,Coates has a change of heart, but doesn't retcon or explain away his previous writings of BP.

Could people in this forum collect those issues and support Coates at this point? Could you forgive the other stuff?

I have wondered this for myself.

Also, why are they doing a renumbering of Coates' Cap America? I thought it was doing well.

I wont forgive the other stuff. But if the new books are good I'll say so. But like Kirkman, I'll be looking at it with more analytical eyes.

[Prof. Warren]

Question:

At this point, what if for the next story line Coates worked with an artist like Steelfrezze & Acuna and delivered an epic action packed story line with amazing feats of intellect, fighting ability, strategy, and wakandan tech that rivaled Priest & Narcisse. Say, due to poor sales and the MCU hype,Coates has a change of heart, but doesn't retcon or explain away his previous writings of BP.

Could people in this forum collect those issues and support Coates at this point? Could you forgive the other stuff?

I have wondered this for myself.

Also, why are they doing a renumbering of Coates' Cap America? I thought it was doing well.

It is. It's doing fine. But the relaunch might tie into a "Book Two" style reset where the series takes a distinctly different direction with a new regular artist.

Of course, they could still do that without the fanfare of a new #1 but why miss an opportunity to boost sales, right?

As for BP, unlike a lot of people on this forum, I've actually found a lot to like about Coates' run, particularly his first go-round. But this Space Wakanda epic has been an interminable drag. I've liked the recent issues better as it's gotten back to Earth and story threads from earlier in Coates' run have been brought back to give a feeling of everything coming full circle.

It feels so much like a summation and conclusion of everything he's done on the book so far that it feels like a natural exit point. If he's staying on, I don't know where he's going to go with it. I've told myself that once this arc is done, I'm off BP until a new creative team comes in.

I'll probably stick to that unless whatever Coates comes up with is so mind-blowing and the artist attached to it is so good I can't resist giving it a try.

Then again, I haven't hated Coates' run on the deep level that others have. I just got bored as hell with the time in space so it's not impossible for me to imagine things turning around for me with Coates. Regardless, I really think that another writer deserves a shot at BP at this point. Coates has had a more than fair length of time on the book. I don't think his run has been embraced enough that he should have so much ownership over the title.

But hey, we'll see what happens. If it were up to me, I'd love to see Jason Aaron be let loose on BP's book. I bet he'd deliver something pretty cool.

But I have a feeling that Coates isn't going anyplace. If that happens, either readers will say "enough" and abandon the book in enough numbers that Marvel has to pay attention (I would have thought they'd already have gotten that message by now but whatever) or Coates will come up with a direction that brings people back.

It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[Ezyo1000]

Question:

At this point, what if for the next story line Coates worked with an artist like Steelfrezze & Acuna and delivered an epic action packed story line with amazing feats of intellect, fighting ability, strategy, and wakandan tech that rivaled Priest & Narcisse. Say, due to poor sales and the MCU hype,Coates has a change of heart, but doesn't retcon or explain away his previous writings of BP.

Could people in this forum collect those issues and support Coates at this point? Could you forgive the other stuff?

I have wondered this for myself.

Also, why are they doing a renumbering of Coates' Cap America? I thought it was doing well.

I would acknowledge that that season was the best season of his series to date and would recommend people to ignore the other stuff. As it's been shown here over the years, we BP enthusiasts will give credit if and when credit is due. There have been single issues that were okay in themselves and posters here have acknowledged it.

I wouldn't support his stuff or forgive all the other crap, but I would acknowledge he had a change of heart and produced BP to standard.

Problem is that will never happen because he doesn't function that way, he made slight adjustments coming into S3 but then reverted back to the same crap then took it a step further in shade throwing. He did the same thing in s2 as well. So I wouldn't hold my breath for it to end well

[DigiCom]

Question:

At this point, what if for the next story line Coates worked with an artist like Steelfrezze & Acuna and delivered an epic action packed story line with amazing feats of intellect, fighting ability, strategy, and wakandan tech that rivaled Priest & Narcisse. Say, due to poor sales and the MCU hype,Coates has a change of heart, but doesn't retcon or explain away his previous writings of BP.

Could people in this forum collect those issues and support Coates at this point? Could you forgive the other stuff?

Speaking just for myself: It's not a question of forgiveness. He doesn't need it, and I don't need to give it.

It's the fact that I simply don't like his style. He's hardly alone... I don't give my money to many writers, even if they are doing characters I like. Because even if a stopped clock is right twice a day, it's still wrong most of the time.

And I guarantee that even if Coates told a classic BP storyline for one arc, he would eventually slide back into his old patterns later on down the line. Most writers do... it's human nature.

[MindofShadow]

Question:

At this point, what if for the next story line Coates worked with an artist like Steelfrezze & Acuna and delivered an epic action packed story line with amazing feats of intellect, fighting ability, strategy, and wakandan tech that rivaled Priest & Narcisse. Say, due to poor sales and the MCU hype,Coates has a change of heart, but doesn't retcon or explain away his previous writings of BP.

Could people in this forum collect those issues and support Coates at this point? Could you forgive the other stuff?

I have wondered this for myself.

Also, why are they doing a renumbering of Coates' Cap America? I thought it was doing well.

Could I buy the newest "good" Coates in used trade bins and enjoy it? Sure. I don't like all of other writers stories either. Aaron's written absolute garbage and the best BP story of all time. So lol

Do I forgive coates or whatever? No.

The first season of Coates run was the MOST PURCHASED BP BOOK OF ALL TIME.

Mean, it is likely the most read BP story, ever.

Rape camps, rebellion, "stretched thin," shitty king, shitty country, shitty enemies, shitty action art, no one man crap, doras no longer loyal, a weak wakanda. Is the most read BP story ever most likely.

It will take a long ass time for that **** to be erased. Luckily the movie is the dominating force right now... but Coates doing all that **** gives the next writer "permission" to continue to do those sorts of stories if they want.

He's introduced this crap into the mythos. So unless it is AGGRESSIVELY taken out by a new writer eventually, in a series of books that sells really well... that underwear stain isn't going anywhere.

[Nate Grey]

... What did they do to Harriet?

Made-up black slavecatcher named Bigger Long was the final boss from what I hear. And her slavemaster who had a crush on her was the one who hired him.