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  1. #10531
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Basically.

    If you are going to have a team of randoms, their needs to be a reason the randoms exist. Otherwise it is just a bunch of character doing stuff. Which is fine for a little bit but then you gotta provide something other than "fun" unless the art is god tier. Because there is no back history between them. Their are no relationships to continue.

    You can throw say... T'challa together with Cap, Stark, Strange, Namor, ect because their are past relationships there. So each conversation is continuing the relationship. So you can get away with more "basic" comics plot wise.

    AoW is so random you can't do that. So instead, this should have been building to something that shows WHY T'challa chose such a random ass team. There should have been a distant threat he and okoye knew about, and each member of this team was an essential cog to defeat the threat. And, as a reader, it doesn't start out crystal clear to WHY he needs each one until later in the series. And at the same time, this group should be questioning why T'challa needs them as well. Is he using them? Are they expendable? Can they actually trust him? Basically, the book should be using T'challa's tactical brain combined with his poker face.

    You also need to explain why he can't simply call in Thor or other Avengers to take care of it lol. Or why he can't just have Wakanda take care of it.

    Basically, you need to have a reason for the book to exist lol. Which should be the basic start with any book....
    Quoted for undeniable logic.

  2. #10532
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think Agents somewhat gets a pass in this regard, since the writer of the book isn't exactly the one who came up with the team and line up. Aaron made the group in Avengers, and basically just used a bunch of C list characters he liked. The actual Agents book is sort of just trying to use what's there.
    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Because it was actually Aaron which put together this particular group, I think it'll likely be in his book where we find out exactly why this particular group was put together (assuming of course there is a reason beyond Aaron simply liking these characters and wanting to use them). I think AoW is actually more a side thing... Aarons Avengers book is where whatever master plan T'Challa has will be unveiled.
    Counter-example: Mockingbird, who just turned up last issue, and did more on the mission than Broot, Gorilla-Man, and Okoye.

  3. #10533
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    So what would you to re-establish Wakanda as a badass place not to be F'ed with? After recent showings (tro getting destroyed by Thanos, though it did take 3 tries, his full force, all his generals and Thanos himself to show up) and secret empire didn't do any favors either, as well as his Solo not highlighting Wakandas military might, how would you go about it? It was something I was hoping to see in panther quest
    Heh.

    You might not like my take on that.

    My feeling is, if you come to Wakanda with trouble, you'll leave in a body bag. Ask the Skrulls. Outside of defending their nation, however, they have no aggressive tendencies or desire to be "bad ass." They are above the outsider, "colonizer" Children in every respect. All beatdowns are simply necessary spankings you give to a world of not-very-bright, bratty toddlers.

    That said, Wakandan defense technology should be the scariest shit anyone's ever seen. You do not get a second chance with them. One strike and you are done. For real done.

  4. #10534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Heh.

    You might not like my take on that.

    My feeling is, if you come to Wakanda with trouble, you'll leave in a body bag. Ask the Skrulls. Outside of defending their nation, however, they have no aggressive tendencies or desire to be "bad ass." They are above the outsider, "colonizer" Children in every respect. All beatdowns are simply necessary spankings you give to a world of not-very-bright, bratty toddlers.

    That said, Wakandan defense technology should be the scariest shit anyone's ever seen. You do not get a second chance with them. One strike and you are done. For real done.
    Why would anyone dislike this aspect of your take on Wakanda.

    It's logical.

  5. #10535
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Counter-example: Mockingbird, who just turned up last issue, and did more on the mission than Broot, Gorilla-Man, and Okoye.
    That is one nice aspect of the book. The mission impossible sort of format allows it to throw in one additional Avenger as needed. And that allows for a bit of extra flexibility as far as fitting this sometimes square peg into a round hole.

    It's such an odd random mashed up group. And that's a part of its' charm to an extent... but pulling out other Avengers as needed helps.

  6. #10536
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Heh.

    You might not like my take on that.

    My feeling is, if you come to Wakanda with trouble, you'll leave in a body bag. Ask the Skrulls. Outside of defending their nation, however, they have no aggressive tendencies or desire to be "bad ass." They are above the outsider, "colonizer" Children in every respect. All beatdowns are simply necessary spankings you give to a world of not-very-bright, bratty toddlers.

    That said, Wakandan defense technology should be the scariest shit anyone's ever seen. You do not get a second chance with them. One strike and you are done. For real done.
    Out of curiosity that that only apply to outsides? If say Killmonger or Man Ape or whatever does something, do they get killed with no second chance too? Or are Wakandans a bit more merciful to non outsides to cause trouble.

  7. #10537
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Out of curiosity that that only apply to outsides? If say Killmonger or Man Ape or whatever does something, do they get killed with no second chance too? Or are Wakandans a bit more merciful to non outsides to cause trouble.
    Ritual suicide. Ritual execution for the most egregious crimes.

    Various forms of imprisonment for everything else.

    However, when we discuss Wakandan internal criminality, we need to look st nations like Denmark, Norway, iceland and Finland's crime rates to get an idea of what crime is like in Wakanda.

    meaning it's basically non-existent. Everyone in Wakanda is related to everyone else. You don't steal from family.

  8. #10538
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    That is one nice aspect of the book. The mission impossible sort of format allows it to throw in one additional Avenger as needed. And that allows for a bit of extra flexibility as far as fitting this sometimes square peg into a round hole.

    It's such an odd random mashed up group. And that's a part of its' charm to an extent... but pulling out other Avengers as needed helps.
    So... Zub is stuck with Aaron's cast when we want to add Wakandans, but he's free to add in random Avengers? Got it.

  9. #10539
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Heh.

    You might not like my take on that.

    My feeling is, if you come to Wakanda with trouble, you'll leave in a body bag. Ask the Skrulls. Outside of defending their nation, however, they have no aggressive tendencies or desire to be "bad ass." They are above the outsider, "colonizer" Children in every respect. All beatdowns are simply necessary spankings you give to a world of not-very-bright, bratty toddlers.

    That said, Wakandan defense technology should be the scariest shit anyone's ever seen. You do not get a second chance with them. One strike and you are done. For real done.
    Dude thst sounds awesome, why wouldn't aby like that? And i guess that's what i mean, as of late Wakanda hasbt looked As impressive fron Coates and SE having thrn struggling or losing in the dumbest ways. So hiw would you go about showcasing "hey Wakanda is not to be ducked with" As well ad showing just hoe terrifying thst defense tech is.

    I always personally wanted to see round 2 of SWaD, see haf thebchance to showcase a deadly Wakanda, as did war of the realms, so again I ask, how would you re-establish Wakanda as the badasses they are

  10. #10540
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    So... Zub is stuck with Aaron's cast when we want to add Wakandans, but he's free to add in random Avengers? Got it.
    Pretty much yeah. It's a satellite Avengers book which is using Avengers.

  11. #10541
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Dude thst sounds awesome, why wouldn't aby like that? And i guess that's what i mean, as of late Wakanda hasbt looked As impressive fron Coates and SE having thrn struggling or losing in the dumbest ways. So hiw would you go about showcasing "hey Wakanda is not to be ducked with" As well ad showing just hoe terrifying thst defense tech is.

    I always personally wanted to see round 2 of SWaD, see haf thebchance to showcase a deadly Wakanda, as did war of the realms, so again I ask, how would you re-establish Wakanda as the badasses they are
    That was the basis of my first (of two) pitches for BP. The Hybrid is getting revenge for Wakanda's win against his Skrull family house. even though the Earth and Skrull have made peace, he's holding a family grudge. It's PERSONAL.

    Also, a hell of a villain to add to the Rogues Gallery.

  12. #10542
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Pretty much yeah. It's a satellite Avengers book which is using Avengers.
    Then don't make excuses. It's not that poor Zub's hands are tied, and he's making do with hat Aaron gave him.

    He WANTS to write the book this way. The fact that it's called "Agents of Wakanda" doesn't mean squat. It just means that Marvel doesn't have a handy Avengers-related trademark to revive. I suppose we should be lucky that T'Challa at least does something in the book, given that Okoye (who is supposed to be the DIRECTOR of the Agents... the equivalent to Nick Fury) has spent most of the last 4 issues being brainwashed by one enemy or another.

    The fact that the last two missions were both partially resolved by a god appearing out of nowhere (a literal deus ex machina!) doesn't exactly help either.

    If you guys like it, more power to you. At the very least, it sells better than T'Coates. But this is not the Panther book I was looking for.

  13. #10543
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Then don't make excuses. It's not that poor Zub's hands are tied, and he's making do with hat Aaron gave him.

    He WANTS to write the book this way. The fact that it's called "Agents of Wakanda" doesn't mean squat. It just means that Marvel doesn't have a handy Avengers-related trademark to revive. I suppose we should be lucky that T'Challa at least does something in the book, given that Okoye (who is supposed to be the DIRECTOR of the Agents... the equivalent to Nick Fury) has spent most of the last 4 issues being brainwashed by one enemy or another.

    The fact that the last two missions were both partially resolved by a god appearing out of nowhere (a literal deus ex machina!) doesn't exactly help either.

    If you guys like it, more power to you. At the very least, it sells better than T'Coates. But this is not the Panther book I was looking for.
    His hands are tied in the sense that 90% of the cast of the team was made for him. He adds 1 additional rotating person to a team that's primariy handled in another book.

    But yes... the fact that it's called Agents of Wakanda mostly means squat. It's not technically inaccurate, in that they are taking orders from the ruler of Wakanda. But more than anything, it's a satellite Avengers book made up of C listers.

  14. #10544
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    His hands are tied in the sense that 90% of the cast of the team was made for him. He adds 1 additional rotating person to a team that's primariy handled in another book.
    I wonder about that. Given how little they do in the main book, it's entirely possible that Zub picked this cast, and Aaoron merely introduced them in the main title as a springboard. Does anyone know what Zub said about the cast before the book came out?

  15. #10545
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Ritual suicide. Ritual execution for the most egregious crimes.

    Various forms of imprisonment for everything else.

    However, when we discuss Wakandan internal criminality, we need to look st nations like Denmark, Norway, iceland and Finland's crime rates to get an idea of what crime is like in Wakanda.

    meaning it's basically non-existent. Everyone in Wakanda is related to everyone else. You don't steal from family.
    If it means having no possibility of rape camps happening under the nose of the royal government, I'm here for all of the above stated elements sir!

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