Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Cville]

I can agree with you here. We have another shared bias between us. That head nod is all that matters. We are our own individuals. We have our own agency. We are more than capable of thinking for ourselves. But the minute I can't nod at you and we both come to a mutual understanding of what's going on, then I don't want it. I wish that person all the blessings in the world, but all skinfolk ain't kinfolk.

T'Challa dun gone out there and found him some skinfolk that ARE his kinfolk and I fuckin champion that with every fiber of my being. #blackexcellence #blackhistory #allblackeverything #wakandaforever #blackdiversity #blacklove #unconditionally

But are they kinfolk? Coates took an assortment of people and threw them together. I don't feel like there have been any real bonding moments(Storm an Shuri excluded). It's not like the Amen where they live and do menial things together to create bonds, they just get thrown ibn the pages when the action starts and then disappear until the next action set. A lot of it is dependent on being long time reader over the past few decades to really know who most of them are.

[Vibranium Weave]

I'd love to see a big deal villain. Is The Master kind of Marvel's analog to Vandal Savage? I don't know. Anyway, it could be good to have somebody be a bigger deal than Killmonger and Klaw. But I'm not interested in any "mirror image" villains.

I forgot about the so-called Master. That could work. I was just thinking about making a great terrorist villain specially for BP.

[DigiCom]

But are they kinfolk? Coates took an assortment of people and threw them together. I don't feel like there have been any real bonding moments(Storm an Shuri excluded). It's not like the Amen where they live and do menial things together to create bonds, they just get thrown ibn the pages when the action starts and then disappear until the next action set. A lot of it is dependent on being long time reader over the past few decades to really know who most of them are.

Apparently, we are meant to assume that all of those characters are his "Day Ones". Including Thunderball, who was brought to Wakanda in chains and called a slave. *shrug*

[Cville]

If the story takes place in Wakanda, I'd rather have the picture and lose than a team that is dependent on Storm to show up at the last moment to save everyone.

[DigiCom]

And hey... if he's going to call his African-American allies to assist in taking on an intergalactic empire, why did he pick THOSE?

I mean, filtering out the maroons and Storm, we have an NYC cop, and a superstrong villain with a stereotypical ball & chain.. Where's Monica? Jericho? Adam? Or even Eden?

If I was going up against a space-faring race (and I didn't think Wakandan defenses were good enough because of Reasons™), I'd call out the BIG guns, not a bunch of bricks,

[chief12d]

The complaints about Wakanda not helping are inane, frankly. Were they supposed to launch an invasion of Europe and police the waters for 400 years? Yea, surely they could’ve done more locally but it’s been shown that they did get involved as far back as Hudlin’s run. That said, what Wakanda didn’t do in the past doesn’t matter to me and I assume the majority of readers nearly as much as what T’Challa is doing as their present superhero-king. For what it’s worth i say this as Nigerian/Sierra Leonean American. This need to constantly reevaluate and justify things within the mythos rather than taking a constructive approach and building on the foundation is lame at this point.

If a writer like Coates so clearly thinks that Wakandan civilization is fundamentally corrupt or irredeemable even with T’Challa at the helm then why is he writing? If every story has to come back around to slavery and black oppression/infighting in a Wakandan context then he clearly has too narrow a thematic focus to effectively depict the character and elevate him further within the MU. That this is coming at a time when T’Challa is leading the Avengers, the kingpin of global intelligence via the AoW, and appearing in big events makes it even worse because it’s squandering an opportunity.

And Coates’ handling of the character and the correspondingly poor sales reflect poorly on black comic characters as a whole. If Marvel sees that their leading black character can’t hold a solo, unfortunately there’s gonna be the spread of this insidious notion that they’re better off not investing in other black characters. It’s disappointing across the board but the bright side is the current sales almost guarantee a relaunch with a new (and likely established) writer. I’d prefer Evan Narcisse or Saladin but Jason Aaron would bring that name recognition and direct Avengers plug to make him an undisputed leader in the MU. Time will tell but after the dropping the book a few months ago I can only hope that in the meantime someone is cooking up a plan to move forward from this run.

[terrancejameson]

I am honestly tired of all this Wakanda bashing. People get mad when countries want to police the whole world, but get mad that Wakanda did not do it. To me this is a huge compliant I have about Coates' run. I mean if you want to blame Wakanda for not stopping colonization (which did not only happen in Africa, but the whole world), you can blame a lot of other marvel heroes for not doing more for people the world all over. On the colonization, I feel read Hudlin's annual. It does a good job of presenting Wkanda's side of the story. What you're asking is a small advanced African country to take on the whole world.

Since Coates is so woke and wants to remember "history" and bash on T'Chala & Wakanda, let me ask a "woke" question about other marvel heroes:
With all this Storm worship Coates loves to do in the Black Panther comics, Why didn't Storm" Hadari Yao, lover & understander of all black issues & people" stop Katrina? She controls the weather, she could have gone there and really helped out. At least JMS had someone ask Thor this question in Thor's own comic (Thor was dead at the time). But Coates would never do it because it gets in the way of his faux "wokeness". Hold Storm accountable ( I challenge you COATES)

As an american born person who parents were born in Nigeria, I truly APPRECIATE what Wakanda represents. I am not running around saying "why didn't Wkanda stop Nigeria from being colonized? Which to be honest you could ask why did the Eternals, Inhumans,Kun-Lun, or Atlantians ignore the effects of colonization? Colonization effected the whole world ( Sun never sets over the British Empire)

At least Hudlin wrote a comic to address Black superheros response to that situation without tarnishing anyone.



As someone mention in this thread, T'Challa in his own comic book series has not defeated a single villain by himself under Coates reign of the BP comics. That's very sad and alarming. What kind of message does that send. I mean if he was fighting Galacutus, Ultron or Kang the conqueror every story line then that would make sense, but to struggle against the male African version of Poison Ivy, c'mon give me a break.

Also, T'Challa has the doras, HZ, an army of African warriors ( who are already black), most advanced tech, but he STILL needs to go and grab every black character by marvel? I guess I've always been a person that liked solo character comics, (which isn't the solo Black Panther comic supposed to be that?). I not to big on ensemble comics like the X-Men. I feel if you become interested in a particular character and they have a solo run, I should be able to pick up that run and learn more about why I should be interested in that said character.

You look at a character like Batman and you see how he has MANY stories of going in to a situation and defeating many adversaries by himself. But for some reason BP has to shoehorn every black character into his book to make it seem "pro-black"? How about showing BP as an effective hero 1st that is black, then others become more interested in the character. Then show Luke Cage or Misty Knight in there own mini series in the same way, and more people might read there stuff.

It sad that T'Challa has been around since the 1960s and in 2019 he doesn't even have up to 200 issues. It only takes 8 years to get to a hundred issues if the comic comes out every month. 8 years. But Coates says he doesn't want to write "awesome awesome T'Challa"? I guess because fans have gotten to much of that when it comes to T'Challa. It's ridiculous.

Bruh, I'm not sure if you fully understand my message.

I'm not bashing Wakanda. I'm being realistic. Wakanda has spilled blood to protect their borders and turned a blind eye to the rest of the continent. MCU T'Challa acknowledged this truth along with his uncle and cousin. Killmonger is a direct reflection of Wakanda's immediate blindness. That's not me hating, that's me being truthful.

I notice a very glaring omission and I can't not mention it. Your stance is that I expect Wakanda the small country to take on the whole world. I never said that. I even acknowledge that its perfectly logical to protect their borders. But the idea that this small little country couldn't bring the world to its knees is a bit disingenuous, no? Aren't you cheapening the entire premise of the movie? Killmonger's plan wouldn't have devastated the global power structure? Are you kidding me? They absolutely would have conquered earth before Thanos arrived.

That's not the biggest conundrum you raise. You're sitting here telling me that Wakanda as a small country couldn't take on the entire globe by themselves, but you're upset that T'Challa is enlisting the aid of all black superpowered individuals, on top of his massive army, the Dora's and HZ, his own superpowered Wakandans to bring to bear against the might of an empire that spans 5 galaxies. Do you not understand the issue I have with framing? You're either okay with all of it or none of it.

I would absolutely love to have someone of the fake woke variety ask Storm all those questions about Katrina. Too bad Greg Pak beat them to the punch by opening her solo with scene that directly informs that question and tells the reader she's capable and willing to deal with such things. She even helps people rebuild. Nevertheless she could still answers some hard questions.

I never once said Wakanda SHOULD have stopped colonialism. I'm not king of Wakanda. The fact remains that they have the means to stop white supremacy across the MCU globe. Killmonger's ultimate goal tells us as much. That doesn't mean an end to all the world's problems, but white supremacy could meet its violent death under emperor N'Jadaka.

I've addressed the issue of T'Challa personal victories against his adversaries. I can't argue with those that are asking for more sure single handed victories. I want those too.

I'm well aware that his Dora's, HZ and the rest of his army are all black. You're just proving my point. T'Challa already has them. He won back their trust and allegiance. He also has a network of black people outside of Wakanda that loom to his country as a beacon of black excellence. I agree with that stance and I love that there are a group of non-Wakandans loyal to king and country.

These are all aspects that I don't deem as a negative and that give me cause to appreciate and celebrate. That's fine if you disagree, but I'm not hating on Wakanda any more than N'Jadaka or his father have.

[Ezyo1000]

I love the idea of T'Challa all black allies from across the diaspora. As Redjack alluded to, realistically speaking American born blacks should not have a romanticized idea of Wakanda. Their prosperity also speaks to inaction in regards to colonialism.

At the end of the day Wakandan excellence should be admired and protected at all costs. I fully expect for many to question their history. It's only natural. I also expect for other lack heroes to see what T'Challa is trying to do, how he plans to affect change across the globe, and I expect for Wakanda to be a beacon. Manifold, Thunderball, Storm, Luke Cage and Misty Knight have all shown up to have his back when he called. I fucking love that! I don't think that makes him weak. That makes him resourceful.

It's all brought right home for me because "Wakanda needs its king". It does not need "its council", or "its Hadari Yao", or "its Griot", or "Okoye", or "Nakia"... T'Challa is what Wakanda needs. My mans has gone and cultivated a team of BLACK PEOPLE that just happen to be superheroes to back his fucking play! I love the message that sends. It's a pan-African vibe if I've ever seen one and I couldn't be anymore excited by that.

And I thought I'd also mention how I enjoy the all black everything motif Coates is going with. If that makes me #fake #woke then so be it. Sign me right tf up! I love seeing a gathering of black people and I make no apologies about it. The fact that it truly bothers some people so much only makes me go harder in the paint. Lolololololol

Your missing my point. Wakanda does not need the help from outside heroes. I'm all for Black superhero teams we got that in Hudlins bad mutha. Wakanda does not need a team though and the fact that Coates is having them show up to defend Wakanda makes them look weak.

[terrancejameson]

Your missing my point. Wakanda does not need the help from outside heroes. I'm all for Black superhero teams we got that in Hudlins bad mutha. Wakanda does not need a team though and the fact that Coates is having them show up to defend Wakanda makes them look weak.

Just to be clear, the running theme here is that Wakanda was powerless to end white supremacy and go to war with the globe, but they are somehow well equipped to battle with an empire that SPANS 5 WHOLE GALAXIES? Again, I'm talking about the might of that empire brought down on the small nation of Wakanda. Am I missing something, ezyo100? How does T'Challa and Wakanda look weak by going up against this new empire with his country at his back with his black allies thrown in?

[Agent Z]

I am honestly tired of all this Wakanda bashing. People get mad when countries want to police the whole world, but get mad that Wakanda did not do it. To me this is a huge compliant I have about Coates' run. I mean if you want to blame Wakanda for not stopping colonization (which did not only happen in Africa, but the whole world), you can blame a lot of other marvel heroes for not doing more for people the world all over. On the colonization, I feel read Hudlin's annual. It does a good job of presenting Wkanda's side of the story. What you're asking is a small advanced African country to take on the whole world.

Since Coates is so woke and wants to remember "history" and bash on T'Chala & Wakanda, let me ask a "woke" question about other marvel heroes:
With all this Storm worship Coates loves to do in the Black Panther comics, Why didn't Storm" Hadari Yao, lover & understander of all black issues & people" stop Katrina? She controls the weather, she could have gone there and really helped out. At least JMS had someone ask Thor this question in Thor's own comic (Thor was dead at the time). But Coates would never do it because it gets in the way of his faux "wokeness". Hold Storm accountable ( I challenge you COATES)

As an american born person who parents were born in Nigeria, I truly APPRECIATE what Wakanda represents. I am not running around saying "why didn't Wkanda stop Nigeria from being colonized? Which to be honest you could ask why did the Eternals, Inhumans,Kun-Lun, or Atlantians ignore the effects of colonization? Colonization effected the whole world ( Sun never sets over the British Empire)

At least Hudlin wrote a comic to address Black superheros response to that situation without tarnishing anyone.



As someone mention in this thread, T'Challa in his own comic book series has not defeated a single villain by himself under Coates reign of the BP comics. That's very sad and alarming. What kind of message does that send. I mean if he was fighting Galacutus, Ultron or Kang the conqueror every story line then that would make sense, but to struggle against the male African version of Poison Ivy, c'mon give me a break.

Also, T'Challa has the doras, HZ, an army of African warriors ( who are already black), most advanced tech, but he STILL needs to go and grab every black character by marvel? I guess I've always been a person that liked solo character comics, (which isn't the solo Black Panther comic supposed to be that?). I not to big on ensemble comics like the X-Men. I feel if you become interested in a particular character and they have a solo run, I should be able to pick up that run and learn more about why I should be interested in that said character.

You look at a character like Batman and you see how he has MANY stories of going in to a situation and defeating many adversaries by himself. But for some reason BP has to shoehorn every black character into his book to make it seem "pro-black"? How about showing BP as an effective hero 1st that is black, then others become more interested in the character. Then show Luke Cage or Misty Knight in there own mini series in the same way, and more people might read there stuff.

It sad that T'Challa has been around since the 1960s and in 2019 he doesn't even have up to 200 issues. It only takes 8 years to get to a hundred issues if the comic comes out every month. 8 years. But Coates says he doesn't want to write "awesome awesome T'Challa"? I guess because fans have gotten to much of that when it comes to T'Challa? It's ridiculous.

Didn't Hudlin write an issue where T'Challa chewed out Blade for not doing more for black people? Or was that someone else?

[DigiCom]

Just to be clear, the running theme here is that Wakanda was powerless to end white supremacy and go to war with the globe, but they are somehow well equipped to battle with an empire that SPANS 5 WHOLE GALAXIES? Again, I'm talking about the might of that empire brought down on the small nation of Wakanda. Am I missing something, ezyo100? How does T'Challa and Wakanda look weak by going up against this new empire with his country at his back with his black allies thrown in?

IF we see them do that, I'll grant you the point.

But so far, it's been a handful of supers, some of whom Coates brought into the book, doing all of the heavy lifting. I mean, at the end of issue #18, we saw a handful of folks being called up against the Empire... and in the preview for the next issue, they are taken down by a bunck of Imperial mooks with guns, because gosh.... space people can teleport!

[Ezyo1000]

Apparently, we are meant to assume that all of those characters are his "Day Ones". Including Thunderball, who was brought to Wakanda in chains and called a slave. *shrug*

yeah none of them are his day ones. Luke would be the closest. Then we have: his ex wife who sided with the x men and attacked him after the divorce, and after the divorce, safe Hickmans booty call, she did nothing but talk isht abd make potshots. We have Misty who he never worked with, and Eden who he NEVER even interacted with or knew for that matter.

All it showed was how hamfisted can this team be with the only one of them being on good terms, and that day one team not only didn't do isht i. Their debut, they looked hella weak.

So I would rather Wakanda keep to themselves and handle this then have a team of heroes who don't have anything to contribute. Because when Wakanda does it, we get to see all the advanced tech. Not a couple dudes with guns and... Thunderball

[DigiCom]

Didn't Hudlin write an issue where T'Challa chewed out Blade for not doing more for black people? Or was that someone else?

Blade doesn't care about anyone unless they are running around without a heartbeat. Only then does he have a stake in the game.

(Anyway, he's British. )

[Ezyo1000]

Just to be clear, the running theme here is that Wakanda was powerless to end white supremacy and go to war with the globe, but they are somehow well equipped to battle with an empire that SPANS 5 WHOLE GALAXIES? Again, I'm talking about the might of that empire brought down on the small nation of Wakanda. Am I missing something, ezyo100? How does T'Challa and Wakanda look weak by going up against this new empire with his country at his back with his black allies thrown in?

Go read hudlins annual. No one thinks Wakanda could not take on the world. In fact Hudlin himself has said they would of won, the problem is maintaining that order, and how many Wakandan lives would of been lost vs the benefit of taking over the world because in the end, Wakanda didn't want to have to police the world and they weren't large enough to do it in the way they would like to

[LastManStanding]

Just to be clear, the running theme here is that Wakanda was powerless to end white supremacy and go to war with the globe, but they are somehow well equipped to battle with an empire that SPANS 5 WHOLE GALAXIES? Again, I'm talking about the might of that empire brought down on the small nation of Wakanda. Am I missing something, ezyo100? How does T'Challa and Wakanda look weak by going up against this new empire with his country at his back with his black allies thrown in?

In the Annual about Wakanda and the slave trade Hudlin wrote that Wakanda had weapons that the world could not dream of. Wakanda chose not to conquer and enslave the world because that would have corrupted the country's soul. Also in that fictional account Wakanda was attacked ten times by slavers and the countries that knew Wakanda was behind some of the militant action of blacks against the slave trade. Wakanda repelled the attacks with ease. So what became of all that advance weaponry in modern times?

BTW Wakanda had a parliament before Coates run.