Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[DigiCom]

A cardinal principle in writing (ALL writing, not just comics) is "show, not tell". If a professional writer is telling a story where the entire second arc hinges on a particular reason, I would expect to see that reasoning laid out, yes. Or, at the very least, explained.

If I am to believe this, the entire second arc of this run was laid out (in part) to address a problem that we never actually see on-panel, with a resolution that is also never depicted. Forget about "show, not tell". We don't even get "tell"!

As for it being "logical". When has that been a driving force in Coates' run? Hell, in the very first issue of his run, he had Wakandan soldiers affected by Zenzi's mind-control (or whatever it is this month) powers, and yet he STILL hasn't planned a defense against them, despite his "upgrades" to the MA armor.

Wouldn't that be "logical"?

[XPac]

A cardinal principle in writing (ALL writing, not just comics) is "show, not tell". If a professional writer is telling a story where the entire second arc hinges on a particular reason, I would expect to see that reasoning laid out, yes. Or, at the very least, explained.

If I am to believe this, the entire second arc of this run was laid out (in part) to address a problem that we never actually see on-panel, with a resolution that is also never depicted. Forget about "show, not tell". We don't even get "tell"!

As for it being "logical". When has that been a driving force in Coates' run? Hell, in the very first issue of his run, he had Wakandan soldiers affected by Zenzi's mind-control (or whatever it is this month) powers, and yet he STILL hasn't planned a defense against them, despite his "upgrades" to the MA armor.

Wouldn't that be "logical"?

Again, if you want to argue that Coates should have showed more people having issues with his relationship I wouldn't necessarily disagree. I'm merely saying what T'Challa did made sense. You can fault the execution of the writing if you want, but the actual plan to use Storm to stop the Adversary from T'Challas perspective served his purposes on multiple fronts.

And we did at least get the tell. Storm and T'Challa do discuss the disconnect she had with Wakanda on both ends.

[Ezyo1000]

Wait... TERRY Gilliam?

As in "old white guy who became famous for playing with cut-up drawings?" Not some black writer who happens to share the name?

HE is appointing himself the arbiter of what is best for black youth?

Yeesh. At least Scorsese had an opinion about something he actually had relevant experience in.

Well don't you know? Old white guys know what's best for Black kids, you know, after the vast history they have shown in showing the absolute best for the Black youth.

[Ezyo1000]

Is my logic really that hard to buy that a panel is needed?

It's not even my logic... it's just common sense. Given what happened it's logical for T'Challa to assume SOME might have hard feelings over his relationship with Storm after how things went down. That's obviously a realistic assumption ... the reactions of people on this board are proof enough for that. A panel doesn't need to prove what you and many other posters are frankly proving on a near daily basis. That's not a knock or anything... just stating the obvious.

If you want to argue the story could have showed more people against the marriage, that's fine... but that's not the same thing as saying what T'Challa did doesn't make complete sense. It made perfect sense given what happened in AvX.

And let me reiterate, it's not like this was done soley for this purpose. The plan also was obviously as viable means of stopping the Adversary... re-connecting Storm with Wakanda is just icing on the cake. So again I'll ask, if you're T'Challa why the heck not? Even if the vast majority of Wakandans are supporting of his relationship with Storm again, what's the harm in doing what he did if it also happens to be a means of stopping the Adversary?

See realistically, Wakandans would not trust Storm or support them getting together, abd they DEFINITELY would not bow abd pray to her. An entire nation with a tradition dating back 10k plus years just prays to Storm just like that? And yes you need to provide a panel because this is comics. A visual medium. You have to show not tell, not vaguely imply, or in Coates case do neither and just skip to the part where everyone just accepts her without question yet questioned T'Challa on a regular basis in S1 and doubt him ontop of Coates writing him like a reactive idiot who's never been King before.

So what's makes logical Sense would be for Wakanda to not trust a finicky "goddess" who's loyalty is not to Wakanda unless it's convenient. The logical deal would be for T'Challa to come up with a contingency plan that allows him to save his nation without outside influence.

This story is contrived and doesn't work off logic at all.

[Ezyo1000]

Or you could say that some folks take this run on its own terms and they don’t seek to label it the quintessential Black Panther solo series. I appreciate different aspects of the Black Panther’s mythos across the different writers who’ve used him since I started reading comics. There are details here that speak to me differently than they speak to everyone else. I like it, I enjoy it and they just so happen to be subliminal messages/images that routinely get missed by Coates’ fake woke white fan base. I champion that.

Its bot even about being the quintessential solo series. It's just a bad series all together. EVEN I we ignore everything that came before it abd just focus on what Lee and Kirby established with his debut. This series completely undermines their reason for why BP was created by turning it into the exact thing they were combating against.

Its essentially like CWs Black lightning. The titular Character is sidelined, talked down to by his wife and daughters abd made essentially ineffectual after the first season. Thats the general trend when it comes to Black males treatment in media.

Coates take, with and without ignoring continuity does not work when you look at the mythos at it's base. This only works if this was a entirely new character altogether and even then who wants to constantly read about Black men being put down to prop up Black women? Why is it always one or the other instead of elevating BOTH?

[chief12d]

Again, if you want to argue that Coates should have showed more people having issues with his relationship I wouldn't necessarily disagree. I'm merely saying what T'Challa did made sense. You can fault the execution of the writing if you want, but the actual plan to use Storm to stop the Adversary from T'Challas perspective served his purposes on multiple fronts.

And we did at least get the tell. Storm and T'Challa do discuss the disconnect she had with Wakanda on both ends.

I don't disagree that T'Challa's actions make sense within the broader story Coates was trying to tell. But I think that his failure (or perhaps refusal) to show Storm taking criticism for her previous actions makes their reconciliation far less compelling, if not moot altogether. Wakandans were willing to upend 10,000 years of traditional government to redress "T'Challa's" failures due in part to Namor's flooding of the Golden City. They were willing to kill each other and their royal family over these convictions, but they readily accept the former queen who betrayed them to ally with Namor with little evaluation of what she had done before. That doesn't make sense to me.

It's not like Wakandans needed to be burning her effigy as she strolled through Alkama Fields but if we're meant to believe that T'Challa and Storm are mutually working past their problems there should've been some criticism thrown her way, so that she could prove herself the way T'Challa had to. Especially since T'Challa divorced her because he knew the optics of his queen having been associated with a genocidal maniac like Namor. There should've been a Wakandan mutant who lost her children in that flood asking if what Storm did was worth it. An adviser quitting his job over working with her to stop the Originators. Some villagers who don't worship her, but actually consider her an agent of chaos, a true weather witch.

Something to demonstrate that there were repercussions for her actions, which would've made her ascension and subsequent acceptance feel more earned. There was an actual opportunity to show a mature, politically complex reunion between the two that was wasted because it would've meant Storm had to temporarily be shown in a negative light. T'Challa was the one to annul the marriage but it wasn't a blameless situation and Coates didn't capture that, instead putting ALL the burden on him while glossing over how Wakandans would very likely perceive their former queen.

And considering how much of S2 was based around their reconciliation and how it intersected with Wakanda's defeat of the Originators, the entire arc suffers for not showing Storm truly earn her godhood and repairing her relationship with the Wakandan people. Sure it can be implied that there was opposition to her, but if it's not actually shown it waters down the narrative to the point that the victory (both in terms of their romance and defeating Adversary) feels like it came way too easily.

[Mr MajestiK]

See the problem here is that you believe Storm is necessary in the BP mythos. She is not. That ship has long sailed, marvel killed that relationship dead, AND on top of that, had Storm taking pot shots at T'Challa, within.. maybe a couple months before Coates had her show up in the book? She was talking isht about T'Challa in CwII.

But this was all necessary right? Wakanda, who has never been saved by anyone. Who's protector, the Black panther the guy who's names on the title the only one who should be saving Wakanda, NEEDED Storm to come in and save Wakanda.. in his own book. That's the angle your going with here? Interesting... Here I thought if your name is on the title of YOUR solo book you do the saving, not someone else who isn't even apart of your franchise

At this point, I don't even know why you're wasting valuable time debating with individuals who read the same books you did but 100% if the time, always seem to find a way to justify T'Challa's neutered trajectory under the pens of certain writers.

[Mr MajestiK]

Or you could say that some folks take this run on its own terms and they don’t seek to label it the quintessential Black Panther solo series. I appreciate different aspects of the Black Panther’s mythos across the different writers who’ve used him since I started reading comics. There are details here that speak to me differently than they speak to everyone else. I like it, I enjoy it and they just so happen to be subliminal messages/images that routinely get missed by Coates’ fake woke white fan base. I champion that.

If the introduction of absolute BS such as Wakandan Rape Camps, manufactured gender inequality, misogyny and a neutered King wholly lacking in in the backbone and intelligence department, is something you enjoy reading, that is of course, your prerogative.

[Redjack]

this is another reason why i've never liked Storm as T'Challa's wfe.

if we accept that Wakanda has been hidden, intentionally, from the world and opted out of participation in world events for 99%+ of its 10k year history, T'Chaka and then T'Challa forcing the doors open is a LOT to have happen, culturally, in a very short time.

a VERY short time.

A nation isn't an entourage that just does what the big star wants because they want to stay on the payroll and get past the velvet rope. They are gigantic and complex and they move as fast as mold unless you want, I dunno, a revolution or a civil war.

T'Challa presenting them with an Outsider Queen would be too much. His romance with her, if we're going to have it at all (and i still think it was a mistake to even inject it) should be brief, passionate and tragic because, ultimately, they can never be together. Never. This is a society based on xenophobia and monarchy. there is NO WAY, 20-30 years after being forced to open their doors, they would accept such a queen. No way.

It would literally break Wakanda.

I'll tell you, point blank, if I ever get my hands on the title, Storm is out. OUT.

[Paul Muad'Dib]

AN X-MISS CAROL (the classic tale of Ebenezer Scrooge retold for BP)



BP will be visited by the black-heroes of the past, present & future (hindsight- insight- foresight). i know... just in time for the holidays.



X- as in ‘Ex’ or X-Men. Miss is not short for Christmas… It’s short/abbreviated for Ms. or Mistress. The story is about Storm & BP’s relationship.


They lack certain degrees of story telling. Muad'Dib can’t even get a “One-Shot” on BP? Why not? That’s only 24 pages. Meanwhile, over two dozen of the WWO concepts appear in a Billion dollar grossing BP film. That’s not fair & it’s unsportsmanlike conduct.

Ba-Humbug

[FLEX HECTIC]

So what Redjack is saying from his vibranium enforced soapbox on the front steps of the First Bast Church of Wakanda is...

[Redjack]

So what Redjack is saying from his vibranium enforced soapbox on the front steps of the First Bast Church of Wakanda is...

Facts.

##################

[Ezyo1000]

this is another reason why i've never liked Storm as T'Challa's wfe.

if we accept that Wakanda has been hidden, intentionally, from the world and opted out of participation in world events for 99%+ of its 10k year history, T'Chaka and then T'Challa forcing the doors open is a LOT to have happen, culturally, in a very short time.

a VERY short time.

A nation isn't an entourage that just does what the big star wants because they want to stay on the payroll and get past the velvet rope. They are gigantic and complex and they move as fast as mold unless you want, I dunno, a revolution or a civil war.

T'Challa presenting them with an Outsider Queen would be too much. His romance with her, if we're going to have it at all (and i still think it was a mistake to even inject it) should be brief, passionate and tragic because, ultimately, they can never be together. Never. This is a society based on xenophobia and monarchy. there is NO WAY, 20-30 years after being forced to open their doors, they would accept such a queen. No way.

It would literally break Wakanda.

I'll tell you, point blank, if I ever get my hands on the title, Storm is out. OUT.

So are you saying you would retcon Ramonda to be a Wakandan like in the MCU? Or how would you address that?

[Redjack]

So are you saying you would retcon Ramonda to be a Wakandan like in the MCU? Or how would you address that?

I would change her title to CONSORT. She never becomes Queen because she isn't Wakandan. Social status, advisory power but never queen. Also, as his second wife, there's less pushback, culturally, because he already fulfilled duties by creating his heir. T'Chaka never remarries. Shuri stays in the bloodline with the right to challenge via combat and, if T'Challa were to die, become ruler until someone challenged (and beat) her.

[Ezyo1000]

I would change her title to CONSORT. She never becomes Queen because she isn't Wakandan. Social status, advisory power but never queen. Also, as his second wife, there's less pushback, culturally, because he already fulfilled duties by creating his heir. T'Chaka never remarries. Shuri stays in the bloodline with the right to challenge via combat and, if T'Challa were to die, become ruler until someone challenged (and beat) her.

So she is unofficially his second wife then? Do you keep the aspect thst Shuri is Ramondas daughter as well so Shuri and T'Challa are half siblings?