Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Redjack]

yep to all that.

[FLEX HECTIC]

So Black Panther needs a full stop...

[Redjack]

well...

like i always say. different writers will want to do different things.

and it's why the odds are so high i'll never get my hands on that book.

[DigiCom]

well...

like i always say. different writers will want to do different things.

and it's why the odds are so high i'll never get my hands on that book.

Odds are higher for you than for me, brother 'Jack.

[Ezyo1000]

well...

like i always say. different writers will want to do different things.

and it's why the odds are so high i'll never get my hands on that book.

Do you think that Marvel would rather T'Challa go through continual deconstruction and your story ventures away from that os the reason? I mean between priest, Hudlin, liss etc. The stories are all different, and we see different aspects of T'Challa yet he still keeps his core traits. What makes you so different that they wouldn't even consider you? If they are letting Coates run unchecked as he is on the mythos I don't see why you couldn't have your take, especially since it appears you would bring him and Wakanda back to status quo and then elevate from there

[XPac]

this is another reason why i've never liked Storm as T'Challa's wfe.

if we accept that Wakanda has been hidden, intentionally, from the world and opted out of participation in world events for 99%+ of its 10k year history, T'Chaka and then T'Challa forcing the doors open is a LOT to have happen, culturally, in a very short time.

a VERY short time.

A nation isn't an entourage that just does what the big star wants because they want to stay on the payroll and get past the velvet rope. They are gigantic and complex and they move as fast as mold unless you want, I dunno, a revolution or a civil war.

T'Challa presenting them with an Outsider Queen would be too much. His romance with her, if we're going to have it at all (and i still think it was a mistake to even inject it) should be brief, passionate and tragic because, ultimately, they can never be together. Never. This is a society based on xenophobia and monarchy. there is NO WAY, 20-30 years after being forced to open their doors, they would accept such a queen. No way.

It would literally break Wakanda.

I'll tell you, point blank, if I ever get my hands on the title, Storm is out. OUT.

Between Ramomda, Storm, and even Monica Lynn (who was engaged even though they didn't actually marry), I think the ship has sort of sailed as far as rejection of outsider queens without a whole lot of retconning.

White Wolf sort of goes against that too. Sort of.

I don't doubt that some might be against it. But if that's what the king wants, there doesn't seem to be much anyone can do about it.

[Mike_Murdock]

this is another reason why i've never liked Storm as T'Challa's wfe.

if we accept that Wakanda has been hidden, intentionally, from the world and opted out of participation in world events for 99%+ of its 10k year history, T'Chaka and then T'Challa forcing the doors open is a LOT to have happen, culturally, in a very short time.

a VERY short time.

A nation isn't an entourage that just does what the big star wants because they want to stay on the payroll and get past the velvet rope. They are gigantic and complex and they move as fast as mold unless you want, I dunno, a revolution or a civil war.

T'Challa presenting them with an Outsider Queen would be too much. His romance with her, if we're going to have it at all (and i still think it was a mistake to even inject it) should be brief, passionate and tragic because, ultimately, they can never be together. Never. This is a society based on xenophobia and monarchy. there is NO WAY, 20-30 years after being forced to open their doors, they would accept such a queen. No way.

It would literally break Wakanda.

I'll tell you, point blank, if I ever get my hands on the title, Storm is out. OUT.

I mean, he almost married Monica Lynn. Her as an outsider, of course, was a very big part of her arc in Jungle Action, though, so that doesn't necessarily change your point but it does show that T'Challa, as a rule, doesn't seem to care.

[Redjack]

Do you think that Marvel would rather T'Challa go through continual deconstruction and your story ventures away from that os the reason? I mean between priest, Hudlin, liss etc. The stories are all different, and we see different aspects of T'Challa yet he still keeps his core traits. What makes you so different that they wouldn't even consider you? If they are letting Coates run unchecked as he is on the mythos I don't see why you couldn't have your take, especially since it appears you would bring him and Wakanda back to status quo and then elevate from there

I think it's because Marvel has never known what, exactly, they want from BP. This means any creator with a STRONG and thought out POV can probably sway them to any new direction so long as they feel the creator knows where they're going and won't break the toys.

for me, I'd try to keep aspects of all the stories that came before but the portrayal of Wakanda's history and social structure needs a massive edit and a consistency that won't change with each new writer (unless that change IS the story).

as a writer (as opposed to a guy who reads and collects these things which is what I mostly am when it comes to comics) i feel this lack of editorial direction has given creators a lot of freedom but has sacrificed T'Challa as a KNOWN commodity. My goal would be to tie all the previous versions into single cohesive whole. that means cutting everything that doesn't match and solidifying the rest.

there's a difference between coming in to take a dump one what the previous writer did and coming in to do your own thing.

If Marvel ever does a hard reboot, I'd want to come in after that with something new. ANAD BP.

So both Monica and storm would be out, for instance (as permanent partners) but they'd still be present as parts of his romantic history. Killmonger would be in but, sadly, MOVIE KM doesn't work for me in the 616 universe because he's the child of a Wakandan spy and we wouldn't have those until LATE in T'Chaka's reign in my version.

but here's the problem. no matter what I keep, SOMEbody's going to be hella pissed about what i cut.

[KOSLOX]

this is another reason why i've never liked Storm as T'Challa's wfe.

if we accept that Wakanda has been hidden, intentionally, from the world and opted out of participation in world events for 99%+ of its 10k year history, T'Chaka and then T'Challa forcing the doors open is a LOT to have happen, culturally, in a very short time.

a VERY short time.

A nation isn't an entourage that just does what the big star wants because they want to stay on the payroll and get past the velvet rope. They are gigantic and complex and they move as fast as mold unless you want, I dunno, a revolution or a civil war.

T'Challa presenting them with an Outsider Queen would be too much. His romance with her, if we're going to have it at all (and i still think it was a mistake to even inject it) should be brief, passionate and tragic because, ultimately, they can never be together. Never. This is a society based on xenophobia and monarchy. there is NO WAY, 20-30 years after being forced to open their doors, they would accept such a queen. No way.

It would literally break Wakanda.

I'll tell you, point blank, if I ever get my hands on the title, Storm is out. OUT.

Give this man the book.

[Huntsman Spider]

Because I'm bored and have the time…

The Heliopolitans (the offspring of the Elder Gods Atum & Gaea), rarely took physical form, unlike their later brethren of the Greek & Norse pantheons. For example, the god Khonshu prefers to this day to act via a champion.

One of the (if not THE) oldest of these children was the feline deity Mafdet, who (along with the dragon spirit now known as Shou-Lao) empowered a champion one million years ago, in adventures alongside other gods, hosts, and avatars of the day. She (although gender is fairly arbitrary for a spirit) was an ardent defender against evil, and held sway over the living and the dead, and was known among her worshippers as "the first to be feared".

However, an unknown number of centuries later, Mafdet was approached in her temple in Egypt by an extradimensional sorcerer named Master Khan, who was trapping beings of mystical power in an attempt to boost his mystical might. Indeed, he had already trapped her former comrade in a spell that imprisoned his heart in a cauldron and was now looking for a being of opposite energies (yang rather than yin, in his terms) to balance it out.

Their battle raged, and while Khan did not achieve total victory, he did manage to split Mafdet into male and female parts, trapping the male half in a jade statue of a tiger. The remaining aspect became later known as Bast, and anchored herself to a mound of metal in a nation far to the south, empowering a new champion named Bashenga, the ruler of a nearby tribe.

(Something similar happened to Shou Lao, actually.)

Her other half, almost completely feral, took on a name based on the animal whose form he now possessed, calling himself the Tiger God. Eventually, parts of the statue were broken off by thieves, passing through many hands before coming into the possession of the Ayala family, who were his champions for several years.

(At one point, the statue was reconstructed, but the union was imperfect, leading to the amulets falling off in mid-transit and returning to their last possessor.)

The amulets were recently destroyed, and the spirit of the god himself trapped in a containment vessel, coincidentally by the champion of his other half. One wonders what would happen if those two halves met…


AUTHOR'S NOTE:

In order to keep things tidy, I am assuming that the Iron Fist & Black Panther seen in Avengers 1,000,000 BC are not part of the traditional lineages for those characters, keeping the rest of their histories intact.

I also used the fact that Marvel has rarely had the Egyptian gods show up as active characters to explain why Bast doesn't act in person.

I have not yet decided where Shou Lao came from. Candidates include an offspring of Set or the Egyptian being named Apophis (whose role as enemy of Ra was supplanted by Seth in the Marvel U).

That's a pretty cool take, and if the two halves of Mafdet were to reunite, I could see Wakanda's White Tiger playing a role as well, given the Tiger God's connection to the other White Tiger.

[Vibranium Weave]

I think it's because Marvel has never known what, exactly, they want from BP. This means any creator with a STRONG and thought out POV can probably sway them to any new direction so long as they feel the creator knows where they're going and won't break the toys.

for me, I'd try to keep aspects of all the stories that came before but the portrayal of Wakanda's history and social structure needs a massive edit and a consistency that won't change with each new writer (unless that change IS the story).

as a writer (as opposed to a guy who reads and collects these things which is what I mostly am when it comes to comics) i feel this lack of editorial direction has given creators a lot of freedom but has sacrificed T'Challa as a KNOWN commodity. My goal would be to tie all the previous versions into single cohesive whole. that means cutting everything that doesn't match and solidifying the rest.

there's a difference between coming in to take a dump one what the previous writer did and coming in to do your own thing.

If Marvel ever does a hard reboot, I'd want to come in after that with something new. ANAD BP.

So both Monica and storm would be out, for instance (as permanent partners) but they'd still be present as parts of his romantic history. Killmonger would be in but, sadly, MOVIE KM doesn't work for me in the 616 universe because he's the child of a Wakandan spy and we wouldn't have those until LATE in T'Chaka's reign in my version.

but here's the problem. no matter what I keep, SOMEbody's going to be hella pissed about what i cut.

if you were given BP to write, would you have Wakanda as always being advanced (like Hudlin's or MCU's version) or make it that T'Chaka or T'Challa made them advanced?

[Redjack]

if you were given BP to write, would you have Wakanda as always being advanced (like Hudlin's or MCU's version) or make it that T'Chaka or T'Challa made them advanced?

Hudlin/MCU

it's the only explanation for why Wakanda remained hidden and uncolonized.

[Ezyo1000]

I think it's because Marvel has never known what, exactly, they want from BP. This means any creator with a STRONG and thought out POV can probably sway them to any new direction so long as they feel the creator knows where they're going and won't break the toys.

for me, I'd try to keep aspects of all the stories that came before but the portrayal of Wakanda's history and social structure needs a massive edit and a consistency that won't change with each new writer (unless that change IS the story).

as a writer (as opposed to a guy who reads and collects these things which is what I mostly am when it comes to comics) i feel this lack of editorial direction has given creators a lot of freedom but has sacrificed T'Challa as a KNOWN commodity. My goal would be to tie all the previous versions into single cohesive whole. that means cutting everything that doesn't match and solidifying the rest.

there's a difference between coming in to take a dump one what the previous writer did and coming in to do your own thing.

If Marvel ever does a hard reboot, I'd want to come in after that with something new. ANAD BP.

So both Monica and storm would be out, for instance (as permanent partners) but they'd still be present as parts of his romantic history. Killmonger would be in but, sadly, MOVIE KM doesn't work for me in the 616 universe because he's the child of a Wakandan spy and we wouldn't have those until LATE in T'Chaka's reign in my version.

but here's the problem. no matter what I keep, SOMEbody's going to be hella pissed about what i cut.

I'm telling you, your explanations really aren't selling me on why you CANT be able to write the book.

Honestly the book currently doesn't feel like it has any agency or direction. Atleast not where T'Challa is concerned. It's literally blame T'Challa for whatever new Western atrocity Coates is deciding to shackle onto the mythos and then have a supporting cast member save the day. Hardly a strong pov, and definitely breaking the toys, I mean look how much retconning have been done already?

It seems more like the comics side just doesn't care enough to make sure everything is coherent. I mean look at how much more restrictions Coates has on Cap as opposed to T'Challa. If Coates did the same thing to cap as he has done to Cap, he would of been canceled hard.

As for your last point, what your changing honestly is just repurposing the mythos to be more inline with the MCU. Sure people may not like EVERYTHING, but if it gives consistently and keeps the core aspects of T'Challa and Wakanda, i think most people would be okay with it.

Even among us fans here we praise what we like abd criticize what we don't, no bias among criticism, Priest and Hudlin aren't exempt from that. It's the simple fact that for the criticisms they get, the good far outweighs the bad. For Coates the opposite is true. And really the good isn't even his doing. It's the artists and stelfreeze's ideas and aesthetics.

[DigiCom]

That's a pretty cool take, and if the two halves of Mafdet were to reunite, I could see Wakanda's White Tiger playing a role as well, given the Tiger God's connection to the other White Tiger.

Thanks.

[Mr MajestiK]

Give this man the book.

Why?

To me, there was absolutely nothing wrong wit Priest, Hudlin and Liss's respective takes on T'Challa as a character, Wakanda as an important part of the MU tapestry and the BP Mythos as a vibrant intellectual property that grew into a movie that took the world by storm. (No pun intended.)

I for one, understood exactly why both Priest and then Hudlin carried Chris Claremont's introduction of Ororo and T'Challa's meeting as teenagers and then, grow same into a marriage that actually fulfilled Charles Xavier's dream of Mutants and Humans living in peace which one would presume could have led on to incredible stories between the X--franchise, BP Mythos in particular and the MU shared universe in general.

Ororo and T'Challa being married was never a problem.

It was the total lack of imagination on the part of some writers in the past and some in the present, that failed to truly understand the concept of a shared universe let alone respecting the tenets of basic continuity.

Ta Nehisi Coates has carried out a sustained desecration of the BP Mythos for the past three years and is scheduled to continue for the forseeable future but apparently his introduction of Wakandan Rape Camps and a thoroughly milquetoast T'Challa, is more acceptable to some than Ororo and T'Challa being married.

Any future writer commissioned to write the next BP run, would do well to remember that making unnecessary changes to the characters mythos on a whim as opposed to established continuity isn't a good look or one that should be blithely accepted by readers without question or critique.