Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[DigiCom]

Again, she also did literally credit Wakanda's golden age to him. YOu can be critical of someone and not believe they are crap. There's a fairly sizable middle ground in between.

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Um... everything she credited him with happened AFTER issue #1. And they don't exactly have anything to with promoting innovation & progress.

The first isn't being a great king "You introduced democracy!" Because Wakanda couldn't POSSIBLY have advanced under a monarchy.
The second... he's done like 17 times. "Klaw is invading! Must be Tuesday." Hardly a great feat.
The third... frankly is BS. "You made Wakanda remember its past!" Like they ever forgot?

And note that even after all of this, Wakanda somehow only managed to acheive a new Golden Age while he wasn't around.

[DigiCom]

But even if we take it at face value that those events are his accomplishments, read that last panel. It's not T'Challa who inspired the "new Golden Age", but "…that past, those old lessons". The Golden Age wasn't caused by Wakandan know-how, but by deus ex Mother.

How much you want to bet that the expected destruction of the Djalia will ruin the Golden Age because now Wakanda won't have "those old lessons" to rely on?

[Cville]

Um... everything she credited him with happened AFTER issue #1. And they don't exactly have anything to with promoting innovation & progress.

The first isn't being a great king "You introduced democracy!" Because Wakanda couldn't POSSIBLY have advanced under a monarchy.
The second... he's done like 17 times. "Klaw is invading! Must be Tuesday." Hardly a great feat.
The third... frankly is BS. "You made Wakanda remember its past!" Like they ever forgot?

And note that even after all of this, Wakanda somehow only managed to acheive a new Golden Age while he wasn't around.

Looking back now the scene where she gives him credit for stuff is similar to the first arc when they were in a meeting deciding how to deal with Changemire after he was attacked Tetu. She said something like he is in mourning, so we deal with like any other man, by consoling him. It's essentially what she did to Tchalla. lol.

[XPac]

Um... everything she credited him with happened AFTER issue #1. And they don't exactly have anything to with promoting innovation & progress.

The first isn't being a great king "You introduced democracy!" Because Wakanda couldn't POSSIBLY have advanced under a monarchy.
The second... he's done like 17 times. "Klaw is invading! Must be Tuesday." Hardly a great feat.
The third... frankly is BS. "You made Wakanda remember its past!" Like they ever forgot?

And note that even after all of this, Wakanda somehow only managed to acheive a new Golden Age while he wasn't around.

Everything that happened prior to isssue 1, he wasn't really king... she was. So what happened to Wakanda prior to Coates was more on her than him.

If you don't happen to agree with Shuri statement crediting T'Challa for Wakanda's golden age, that's fine... but it's also besides the point. The point is that SHE credits him for it.

Again point being I don't think she thinks he's crap. She certainly is critical of him, but there's good there too. I honestly don't believe for a second that she (or any of us for that matter) believe Wakanda would be better off with anyone else on the throne.

[XPac]

But even if we take it at face value that those events are his accomplishments, read that last panel. It's not T'Challa who inspired the "new Golden Age", but "…that past, those old lessons". The Golden Age wasn't caused by Wakandan know-how, but by deus ex Mother.

How much you want to bet that the expected destruction of the Djalia will ruin the Golden Age because now Wakanda won't have "those old lessons" to rely on?

The golden age of peace in Wakanda would be ruined no matter what, because Wakanda will always be dragged into conflict since it's ruler just happens to be a super hero.

There is a kernal of truth to the notion that T'Challa brings conflict to Wakanda... he's a super hero that prioritizes the greater good and at times that does mean putting a bullseye on Wakanda. He's use Wakanda to protect the Avengers or hide the Cabal or protect a cube fragment or defeat an evil Galactic Wakandan empire or whatever. Doesn't mean what T'CHalla is doing isn't right... but the whole golden of peace thing can't and won't last with him at the helm. Not his fault and it's not even the wrong thing to do... but there's a cost Wakanda sometimes does have to pay for a super hero king. It's more than worth it in the end though.

[DigiCom]

Everything that happened prior to isssue 1, he wasn't really king... she was.

Um...

T'Challa was king for YEARS before Shuri, even if we don't take account RL time. Through Kirby, McGregor, Priest, and most of the Hudlin run.

And Wakanda was pretty damn advanced back then. Are you seriously going to argue that Wakanda WASN'T an advanced culture before this run?

[XPac]

Um...

T'Challa was king for YEARS before Shuri, even if we don't take account RL time. Through Kirby, McGregor, Priest, and most of the Hudlin run.

And Wakanda was pretty damn advanced back then. Are you seriously going to argue that Wakanda WASN'T an advanced culture before this run?

You said Shuri felt he was doing a crap job the last few years, and I'm merely suggesting that in the last few years she was the actual ruler prior to Coates. Unless you count Kirby, McGregor, Priest and Hudlin as last few years (which you can if you're using marvel time I suppose). My mistake if I misunderstood what you mean by last few years.

[DigiCom]

You said Shuri felt he was doing a crap job the last few years, and I'm merely suggesting that in the last few years she was the actual ruler prior to Coates. Unless you count Kirby, McGregor, Priest and Hudlin as last few years (which you can if you're using marvel time I suppose). My mistake if I misunderstood what you mean by last few years.

I was referring to the 4 years of the Coates run (wherein he's been lurching from crisis to crisis like a drunken sailor), but the fact is, for all the backhanded compliment of giving him credit for "those old lessons", she certainly was throwing shade in the last issue for his behavior as King in general, INCLUDING blaming him for creating an intergalactic slave empire because he dared to create a space program.

(Meanwhile, T'Challa disappears for a few months, and all of those crises magically just go away. Funny how Tetu, Zenzi, or any of the other enemies of Wakanda didn't do a damn thing while he was MIA.)

[XPac]

I was referring to the 4 years of the Coates run (wherein he's been lurching from crisis to crisis like a drunken sailor), but the fact is, for all the backhanded compliment of giving him credit for "those old lessons", she certainly was throwing shade in the last issue for his behavior as King in general, INCLUDING blaming him for creating an intergalactic slave empire because he dared to create a space program.

(Meanwhile, T'Challa disappears for a few months, and all of those crises magically just go away. Funny how Tetu, Zenzi, or any of the other enemies of Wakanda didn't do a damn thing while he was MIA.)

If you're talking about the 4 years of Coates run, then Shuri is giving him credit for everything he's done in the last 4 years in that scan I posted. She's literally crediting him for the golden age. So in the LEAST I don't think it's fair to say she thinks hes a crap king, even if she is critical of him. She clearly believes there's good he did as well. Again, there is a sizable middle ground between being critical of him and thinking he's crap.

But yes... it is interesting that villains were quiet while T'Challa was away (apart from the stuff Shuri had to deal with in her mini solo book). A lot of stories have sort of thrown out the theory that villains rise up to challenge the heroes ... if there was no Batman in Gotham for example, there wouldn't necessarily be this rogues gallery fighting him and endangering Gotham in the process. Not that I buy it mind you... there might be SOME truth to it as villains after a certain point do specifically target heroes but it's overall a pretty weak conclusion to make. Most of BPs rogues are more focused on Wakanda or vibranium than BP specifically anyways do it does't apply to him.

In the meta sense the obvious explanation the villains are quiet is because it's T'Challas book, so there's no reason for them to do anything until he gets back to fight them (again the stuff in Shuri's book being the exception).

[Ezyo1000]

Again, she also did literally credit Wakanda's golden age to him. YOu can be critical of someone and not believe they are crap. There's a fairly sizable middle ground in between.

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Here's the deal, comics are about showing, not telling. We have been told that essentially the Orishas™ are responsible for Wakanda being where it's at now, and the cause of their success, in this same story that Shuri Says T'Challa is responsible, before that, Wakandans are saying the peace and prosperity they are experiencing is bkt from their own ingenuity, but because the Orishas ™ have returned. 3 years in abd we have yet to see then do anything, yet they get so much credit. If you can't show it, then it's isht. Of a writer said T'Challa is the greatest h2h fighter on earth yet shows him getting beat up by goon slam gary, then what he said means nothing. It's what you show. And everything that Coates has said means very little because he doesn't bother to show anything.. unless it's negative then he will make a whole day out of it. Which is why when he leaves and a new writer comes on (hopefully Redjack) it will be nice to get back to status quo and have this stuff out of the mythos.

[DigiCom]

If you're talking about the 4 years of Coates run, then Shuri is giving him credit for everything he's done in the last 4 years in that scan I posted. She's literally crediting him for the golden age. So in the LEAST I don't think it's fair to say she thinks hes a crap king, even if she is critical of him. She clearly believes there's good he did as well. Again, there is a sizable middle ground between being critical of him and thinking he's crap.

Technically, she's giving him credit for making "Wakanda remember it's deep past" whatever the Duat that means. She didn't say that T'CHALLA created the Golden Age, but the "old lessons" he somehow restored did. That's about as regal as Indiana f'n Jones, and has NOTHING to do with being king!

Meanwhile, when she talks about him actually acting as a monarch, she throws more shade than the Great Wall of China.

But hey... he heroically made a deal with terrorists! And beat up Klaw again! Huzzah! :P

[chief12d]

Speaking of Klaw, the man really needs an upgrade or to be killed off and exported to some other rogues gallery. It’s disappointing that after all these years he’s still this C-list villain that can’t pose any threat to T’Challa with absolutely no relevance to the broader MU.

[KingNomarch]

The latest baseless rumor is that the Dora will be getting a spinoff film based on the whole No One Man nonsense.

[Agent Z]

Speaking of Klaw, the man really needs an upgrade or to be killed off and exported to some other rogues gallery. It’s disappointing that after all these years he’s still this C-list villain that can’t pose any threat to T’Challa with absolutely no relevance to the broader MU.

Isn't he partly an FF villain anyway?

[XPac]

Speaking of Klaw, the man really needs an upgrade or to be killed off and exported to some other rogues gallery. It’s disappointing that after all these years he’s still this C-list villain that can’t pose any threat to T’Challa with absolutely no relevance to the broader MU.

He only needs an upgrade against Tchalla. Hes actually a very powerful character ... problem being he has a weakness to vibranium. Any fight between the two is a potential one hit KO. They match up very poorly in that regard.

But theoretically the higher Tchallas profile goes, the higher his rogues can go. So he's got a shot at being elevated. But Killmonger is the safer bet in that regard.