Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Redjack]

Not sure why that post is getting so much attention. But I'm pretty sure I know myself well enough to know what I do and do not like.

Several of the posters in response to my post have literal pages of them stating in disagreement on how something is on just a page of preview art it in previous T'Challa threads. Never a question of "are you sure?" there.

I don't like the designs of the Atlantean's as a whole. I know that. I think they are designed rather poorly compared to other interpretations that have been made in the past in other mediums. Now the creator (to which I just thought he worked on the show) has a choice of taking criticism to see if he can work on it later or he can ignore it. No harm no foul. *shrug*

Edit:
Or he could delve into why he choose those designs after the show airs, to not spoil anything, to support the decision.

Felt that should be added. Anyone should have the platform to defend "their" work if they can handle doing so in a respectful discussion.



I agree. But that is just part of it for me. There are other things that I dislike about it. However, I'm not going to carry on about it since my goal wasn't to tear anyone down and it seems I might have hit a nerve.

No professional in the entertainment industry takes "criticism" from the audience into account when creating work. none. some of us like to explain our thinking after the fact when it seems a point or a tone has been missed or, conversely, properly understood.

The "nerve" that has touched is the one that says a tiny glimpse of a project gives one enough insight into the project to have a worthwhile opinion about it. It has nothing to do with this particular episode or this particular show. it has nothing to do with who makes or made the subject under discussion.

I've never been a fan of that sort of thing since LONG before Black Panther was on anybody's radar in film or on TV. Bad mojo.

IOW: It's easy to throw a rock at a pane of glass. any ape can do that. helluva lot harder to make one.

Maybe you watch the thing and hate it. Maybe you watch and love it.

In either case, the opinion is equally valid because you've actually watched the thing. if you haven't watched, nothing you think about it is valuable.

[Rumble]

You give me one choice of leader in an unknown scenario and I am taking T'challa 10/10. He has the best mix of leading armies, prep, tech ass pulls, on the fly tech, using people if needed, and other random comic book **** that the rest don't have.

Yup, that's why I put BP first. Remember yall, this is best strategist.. not best leader, best leader can be the front man who can give the best independence day movie speech to fire up the troops after all the smart people behind scenes come up with the actual strategy to win the day lol. Luke Cage is probably a better leader than Batman

The last two times I remember sing Shang fighting on panel were his clones getting beaten up by old man Steve and Gorgon throwing him off a dragon mountain. Shang need that movie ASAP.

Shang need that crazy rich asians stimulus package, fa sho. The highlight of his fandom since then was sleeping with Domino... and that's like getting a participant award.

That's a really good question. Reminds me of this line from "The Last Avengers Story":

That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic.

Hahahahahahah

[Rumble]

Didn't Reed pull a recent ass-pull strategic maneuver in that Fantastic Four launch? Against some generic extinction level threat cosmic chick?

Not as badass as T'Challa's ass-pull in beating Thanos in Ultimates tho... lol

[Ezyo1000]

You give me one choice of leader in an unknown scenario and I am taking T'challa 10/10. He has the best mix of leading armies, prep, tech ass pulls, on the fly tech, using people if needed, and other random comic book **** that the rest don't have.

The last two times I remember sing Shang fighting on panel were his clones getting beaten up by old man Steve and Gorgon throwing him off a dragon mountain. Shang need that movie ASAP.

He also stays Cool under pressure and unlike Cap, doesn't just run head first into conflict he thinks first then comes up with the best course of action.

[Mr MajestiK]

He also stays Cool under pressure and unlike Cap, doesn't just run head first into conflict he thinks first then comes up with the best course of action.

I haven't seen T'challadoing anything like this in the comics Post-David Liss.

[DragonsChi]

Interesting. So you think Cap would beat Reed in a prep time battle? I don't think Reed would be prideful in calling for help either, which is what we saw him do in Hickman's run. Both of them called in help, and Reed came out on top bc of the sneak attack by Sue, after months of Machiavellian shenanigans. But again, if Avengers/New Avengers/TRO/etc gets omitted by virtue of Hickman being a Reed dick-rider (which is something i've accused him of often), then that certainly hurts Reed and Doom's case. I'm not opposed to this

Yeah Hickman out right said that Reed was his favorite character in at least two post that I have seen on twitter.

I also think Reed would be to prideful to call in help in the brains department. I think if Cap knew he was going against Reed he would come up with an initial plan to deal with Reed then call in other people who rival Reeds intellect to review the plan and set up other ideas as well. I also am confident in the confrontation Cap would be extremely better at adapting to the fight and coming up with other strategies mid-battle.

[DragonsChi]

No professional in the entertainment industry takes "criticism" from the audience into account when creating work. none. some of us like to explain our thinking after the fact when it seems a point or a tone has been missed or, conversely, properly understood.

Scott Synder does. In fact he goes as far as DMing some of his fans who have criticized his work to see where he can improve. Man goes out of his way to have an actual conversation with the fans who poked at his work. (And the ones who legitimately loved it.) And guess what... He is KICKING ASS on all his titles. Top of the charts almost every time. Many could learn from him.

I guessing by the rest of your post you could too.

Yup, that's why I put BP first. Remember yall, this is best strategist.. not best leader, best leader can be the front man who can give the best independence day movie speech to fire up the troops after all the smart people behind scenes come up with the actual strategy to win the day lol. Luke Cage is probably a better leader than Batman

I'm pretty confident that Luke is a better leader than Batman. Batman would have the better plan but as an actual leader with the ability to inspire and confidently trust him into battle, that is for sure Cage.

[Ezyo1000]

Zack Synder does. In fact he goes as far as DMing some of his fans who have criticized his work to see where he can improve. Man goes out of his way to have an actual conversation with the fans who poked at his work. (And the ones who legitimately loved it.) And guess what... He is KICKING ASS on all his titles. Top of the charts almost every time. Many could learn from him.

I guessing by the rest of your post you could too.

Is there any proof to back up this claim? Because that's a pretty bold statement to make.

I think that so far, Redjack has been doing a stellar job in the work he has put out. As for the show and the art. In pretty sure Redjack has no say on how the characters look

As for the rest, nothing in the entirety of his post lead to the conclusion that he needs to take notes from Snyder, as what he said was true In Regards to making assumptions really. Eve. Now, In Coates story, it's not impossible for him to stick the landing and end the season on a high with. Satisfying end. Given his track record however, it would lean to not likely but we still don't know 100%.

[DragonsChi]

Is there any proof to back up this claim? Because that's a pretty bold statement to make.

I think that so far, Redjack has been doing a stellar job in the work he has put out. As for the show and the art. In pretty sure Redjack has no say on how the characters look

As for the rest, nothing in the entirety of his post lead to the conclusion that he needs to take notes from Snyder, as what he said was true In Regards to making assumptions really. Eve. Now, In Coates story, it's not impossible for him to stick the landing and end the season on a high with. Satisfying end. Given his track record however, it would lean to not likely but we still don't know 100%.

In my initial post, that started this,was not directed at him. You can see there that I purposely took his name out of it when I made it. However, one can argue that he is making it about him or that he feels that it is.... I'm not sure since I honestly do not know what part of the Panther Quest project he actually works on or what say he has on the final project.

Whatever the case maybe, I do not need to have experience in the field (to which he nor anyone else know if I have any or not), anyone's permission, or to have seen the full project to pass judgement on a work of ART. I for sure don't need to be told or be faced with poor excuse's that involve not knowing the full picture of an alleged veil by the individual to hold that opinion.

I'm sorry if that unintentionally rubbed him the wrong way but in this particular case I think the art work on those characters are poor. Based on other attempts, in other places, made on the same type of characters Panther Quest's version would be my least liked. It's not personal. Now once again, he can choose to take the criticism, ignore it, or give more insight when appropriate on why the designs were used in hopes to give a better understanding. That's how a "professional " would handle it. As oppose to what is happening right now.

Just saying.


Edit:

It should be noted that I have actually spoken with someone who talked to Scott through twitter to verify this . Scotts later post goes into more detail with other things in regards to fans, as well.

Now, I know everyone will be who they are but there is a proper way of dealing with things and I do believe this has veered further then I would have liked. As of right now my opinion is where it is. Those who choose to continue forward with this it's entirely on them.

[Rumble]

Yeah Hickman out right said that Reed was his favorite character in at least two post that I have seen on twitter.

I also think Reed would be to prideful to call in help in the brains department. I think if Cap knew he was going against Reed he would come up with an initial plan to deal with Reed then call in other people who rival Reeds intellect to review the plan and set up other ideas as well. I also am confident in the confrontation Cap would be extremely better at adapting to the fight and coming up with other strategies mid-battle.

Idk man.. i see two red flags with this. One is that Reed has shown in past years that he's not too prideful when it comes to calling in other big brains. Hickman's 4-5 year Illuminat run; the current run of F4 had Reed call up literally everyone whose ever been an F4 member lol, including BP; the council of Reed's; the previous/original Illuminati; even Valeria herself. So i'm not sure where the too prideful thing comes from when the comics show that's not necessarily the case.

But that's kind of a moot point bc of the other, bigger red flag.. which is that if Cap's plan to out-strategize Reed is to call Black Panther and ask him to out-strategize Reed for him (which is essentially what you're saying)... well... lol Luke Cage can out-strategize Reed Richards with that same logic because he just calls up BP and Blue Marvel to "proof check" his plan and offer ideas (i.e. scrap his plan and make a better one hahaha); and Hawkeye beats Batman in a prep battle bc Hawkeye would just call in the Avengers...

While that's all subjectively viable for Cap, Luke, and Clint... it also kinda defeats the whole purpose of having rankings and assessing characters, and partly why CBR Rumbles board was created, and done so with rules that largely ban such arguments.

[Rumble]

MindofShadow,

Hypothetically, if we created a "Mr. Fantastic vs Captain America (prep time)" fight thread in the CBR Rumbles board, who you think they picking to win?

Fukk anything else you've heard me or anyone else say tonight lol. You've participated in that Rumbles board long enough; what's your best guess with who gets picked victor and how often? I'm curious now.

[Redjack]

Scott Synder does. In fact he goes as far as DMing some of his fans who have criticized his work to see where he can improve. Man goes out of his way to have an actual conversation with the fans who poked at his work. (And the ones who legitimately loved it.) And guess what... He is KICKING ASS on all his titles. Top of the charts almost every time. Many could learn from him.

I guessing by the rest of your post you could too.

You're kidding yourself. Being open to his fans and checking with them for how to improve are not same thing.

as for the design.

there are a few versions of humanoid Atlantans. Blue and Green are the dominant groups in the present day. There are also those who have mermaid bodies or the heads of fish or other sea creatures. In making this show we drew from all of the different versions to make our own thing.

here is a picture of the SEA LEOPARD, a character from ancient atlantis. After you watch the episode, see if you still feel the same way about the designs. We do actually think about these things.

Attachment 77633

[Blind Wedjat]

In my initial post, that started this,was not directed at him. You can see there that I purposely took his name out of it when I made it. However, one can argue that he is making it about him or that he feels that it is.... I'm not sure since I honestly do not know what part of the Panther Quest project he actually works on or what say he has on the final project.

Whatever the case maybe, I do not need to have experience in the field (to which he nor anyone else know if I have any or not), anyone's permission, or to have seen the full project to pass judgement on a work of ART. I for sure don't need to be told or be faced with poor excuse's that involve not knowing the full picture of an alleged veil by the individual to hold that opinion.

I'm sorry if that unintentionally rubbed him the wrong way but in this particular case I think the art work on those characters are poor. Based on other attempts, in other places, made on the same type of characters Panther Quest's version would be my least liked. It's not personal. Now once again, he can choose to take the criticism, ignore it, or give more insight when appropriate on why the designs were used in hopes to give a better understanding. That's how a "professional " would handle it. As oppose to what is happening right now.

Just saying.


Edit:

It should be noted that I have actually spoken with someone who talked to Scott through twitter to verify this . Scotts later post goes into more detail with other things in regards to fans, as well.

Now, I know everyone will be who they are but there is a proper way of dealing with things and I do believe this has veered further then I would have liked. As of right now my opinion is where it is. Those who choose to continue forward with this it's entirely on them.

Yea, okay, you're being unnecessarily rude.

First of all, Redjack is the showrunner of Black Panther's Quest. It's HIS show. Therefore making a remark about the show is making a remark about his work, which he has every right to respond to, regardless of whether you chose to mention his name or not.

Second, you keep saying there are right ways to respond to criticism, but did you actually offer any criticism? All you said in your posts was that you "hate the designs" of the Atlanteans and how you "don't like the animation" of the show, which is hardly criticism. Which is hardly respectful criticism might I add, and no better than fanboy on Twitter who go "You suck!" (and you'll never see critics using this kind of language). If you wanted a better response, maybe you should have come with a better comment.

Thirdly, you've said more than once that Redjack should explain his choices after the episode is released, but you critiqued -- actually, insulted what you didn't like about the episode before it had even come out based on a clip that was less than two minutes. Redjack also pointed out to you that you should probably watch the episode before passing judgement, but you doubled down on your hate anyway and ignored that. You mention Scott Snyder DMing people on Twitter who critique his work, which is no different than what Redjack does on here but you ignored that also. I and another user on here once pointed out that we didn't like M'Baku using power armour and Redjack responded by explaining his choice to do that. I still don't like it, but I understood what he was going for was a different version anyway. Redjack responded because I wasn't insulting his work, which is what you did.

Fourthly, you took an unnecessary defensive. Some of us on here reiterated Redjack's point about perhaps checking out the episode before passing judgment, but you doubled down, went on about how you hate it, how it's your opinion, talking about Redjack making it about him, how we're writing "literal pages" of responses (which we did not), and calling Redjack an unprofessional. Your initial post was worded to suggest that what the clip showed was how the show always depicted Atlanteans, to which I responded in the Namor thread that it's not true and showed another clip (using only a line) and explaining those are ancient Atlanteans and that's why they look that way. They may even before a different faction of barbarian Atlanteans. This may have been explained by the episode and Redjack afterwards if you had bothered to watch it before passing judgement.

I've only read comics with Namor acting like more of an ******* and antagonistic towards others. If I then went to the Namor thread and said I hate the character because he's an *******, and based that on these comments, wouldn't you and the fans in there see me as someone misinformed or not knowing the proper context or best and most accurate depictions of Namor (I know this because I've been reading the thread since it opened this year and was reading last year's one as well? That is how you behaved here.

So lastly, if you want to offer actual criticism and expect a respectful response from the creator of the show, be respectful first. Whatever energy you put into the world is what it will give you back. Do unto others as you would like to be done to yourself. Don't go around calling people unprofessional when you're rude in the first place. This thing only veered off because of your attitude towards it.

[DragonsChi]

You're kidding yourself. Being open to his fans and checking with them for how to improve are not same thing.

as for the design.

there are a few versions of humanoid Atlantans. Blue and Green are the dominant groups in the present day. There are also those who have mermaid bodies or the heads of fish or other sea creatures. In making this show we drew from all of the different versions to make our own thing.

here is a picture of the SEA LEOPARD, a character from ancient atlantis. After you watch the episode, see if you still feel the same way about the designs. We do actually think about these things.

Attachment 77633

You misunderstand. I never said he “checks” with them. I said when he gets critisim he sometimes goes out of his way to engage more to see how he can improve. He at times takes it. But in your hubris you seem to be interpting my post how you see fit.

I also never said that anyone one on your team didn’t think the design you came up with through. I said I didn’t like the final result. Also, if you were more open to what I was saying you would note that in one of my post I even mentioned I was reserving full discloser on my thoughts until I saw the full thing, even though I was sure my mind wouldn’t change about the design.

Therefore respectfully if anyone is misunderstanding what is and what isn’t it would be you. Now I would very much like to stop pointing fingers and if your willing talk directly about the art. If you can’t until the episode airs I understand. I mentioned a few times now about coming back to it until then but the focus seems to be more on “how dare you not like it” with a little “ you don’t know what your talking about”.

[Killerbee911]

You are kinda getting flamed because this what you said

Overall, this show is good but this is the Worst depiction of Atlantean's yet.

They look more like Conan the Barbarian wannabe's then actual Atlantean's.

The response given by basically Redjack is wait and see why they look how they look. Then you basically change your argument "to not liking the art" when you got call out on bad opinion. I don't even have to see the episode to understand there is a reason why these Atlanteans look the way they do especially since Atlanteans we have seen different design . Your first BS opinion is what he was responding too. You said they look like Conan wannabe not Atlanteans and he said "Watch the show see why that design choice was made" then comment on it. The first thing you said wasn't about art style but design choice.

You criticism wasn't on art style it was on design on those Atlanteans. It is fair response to go "wait and see why they look they way the do". If you said I don't like the art style he can't do crap about that is personal taste.