Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[XPac]

Yeah he delivers results. Sometimes though it's quite unfortunate how writers will Let their favoritism show in regards to making Cap lead when there are other characters who have shown better strategic planning, and are just as capable as leaders if not better, they just aren't Captain America.

But again like I said, Steve is the ultimate soldier when it comes down to it, he wins battles. People like T'Challa however, win wars

I think the other thing to consider here is that a comic book character can really only be as brilliant as the person writing them. And most comic book writers themselves probably aren't brilliant military strategists. So what we see on panel being labeled as brillaint might fall short by real world standards. It's not the comic book writers fault necessarily... it's not like having advnced knowledge in military combat strategy is necessarily a pre-requisite for writing comics. But the point is that we know a character is a good strategist when the book flat out says he is.

And arguably no marvel character has this written in print more than Cap. In the Secret Empire prologue for example, the narration flat out states he has the best strategist of the heroes. Doesn't mean that makes him 100% undisputably the best... but it means he's in the conversation, whether or not the characters who have written him have done a good enough job conveying that in the stories.

I'd argue in the last couple decades Cyclops writers have probably done a better job conveying Scotts leadership than Avenger writers have done with Cap (I'm a fan of Bendis, but combat was never his thing). Scott and Steve can only be as good or as bad as they are written. But the idea trying to be conveyed is that they're great at this (maybe the 2 best), whether or not that idea was sucessfully conveyed. When Steve's around, he's the guy calling the shots. If Steve for whatever reason isn't, next guy in line is probably Scott when he's doing his best Magneto impression.

[DigiCom]

Please, tell me more how great Cap, Reed, and Cyclops are in the Black Panther Appreciation thread.

No, really. I'm just fascinated.

[Rumble]

Yeah he delivers results. Sometimes though it's quite unfortunate how writers will Let their favoritism show in regards to making Cap lead when there are other characters who have shown better strategic planning, and are just as capable as leaders if not better, they just aren't Captain America.

But again like I said, Steve is the ultimate soldier when it comes down to it, he wins battles. People like T'Challa however, win wars

I think a Rumbles board also serves as an internal audit that forces people to be specific when talking about results delivered, by asking specific questions. Like if Dick Cheney comes up with the plan but Dubya Jr gets the credit for carrying it out, that distinction is noted.

I think that's why Rumbles board people created their own island where they can be objective and not deal with the constant fanboyism, or to mitigate it as much as possible. In my opinion.

[Ezyo1000]

I think Rumbles board serves as an internal audit of abilities, in which you can't hide behind things like personal fanboyism and other characters doing the work for you. Case in point, all i'm seeing for Cap winning are superficial and kinda irrelevant arguments that can be summarized as: "Cap is so cool and likeable, he should win!"

Which is why I think people need to be careful when dismissing Hickman's depiction of Reed, due to him "liking" the Reed character, bc the issue may be they themselves are just biased towards Cap and salty he lost lol. Cap himself is arguably the biggest beneficiary of writer-bias, after all. So that's a can of worms to be opened.

Ultimately, can't dismiss a recent canon-version of Cap getting owned by Reed in prep-time and strategy just because Hickman came at it from a Rumbles board perspective. It is what it is.

Exactly, The argument for Cap is "he is a great guy and people like him that's why he can have gods and Kings etc follow him" but as we have seen, Tchalla currently is doing the same. He even had a unanimous vote for him to lead from the big 3, all I. Agreement that he would be a better leader for the Avengers.

But in strategy, yeah that's not hos strong point. And Reed has shown he can out strategize. Hell in Hickmans tro on panel Cap was salty about the loss and didn't want to hear about how he lost lol

[Rumble]

Please, tell me more how great Cap, Reed, and Cyclops are in the Black Panther Appreciation thread.

No, really. I'm just fascinated.

I claim full responsibility. I poised the baiting (I prefer inquisitive) questions.

I got the thoughtful answers that i wanted, i triggered the people i figured would get triggered, I stirred the pot a little, and just finished my closing statement. Haha So I'm ready to move on.

Thank you BoG for your contributions. It was part of the thoughtful answers I was referring to.

[Rumble]

Exactly, The argument for Cap is "he is a great guy and people like him that's why he can have gods and Kings etc follow him" but as we have seen, Tchalla currently is doing the same. He even had a unanimous vote for him to lead from the big 3, all I. Agreement that he would be a better leader for the Avengers.

But in strategy, yeah that's not hos strong point. And Reed has shown he can out strategize. Hell in Hickmans tro on panel Cap was salty about the loss and didn't want to hear about how he lost lol

Yup, couldn't be better said. On that note, I'm done with this topic. I think we're all on the same page Thank you Ezyo for your contributions and feedback on my rankings.

I'm going to watch the new ep of Panther Quest so i can understand what all this Atlantean outrage is all about

[Redjack]

You misunderstand. I never said he “checks” with them. I said when he gets critisim he sometimes goes out of his way to engage more to see how he can improve. He at times takes it. But in your hubris you seem to be interpting my post how you see fit.

I didn't misunderstand you. The posts aren't complex. Artists do not quiz or poll their audience to "see how they can improve." It doesn't work that way, No matter how much a given member of the audience would love it to. We make. We present. You react. That's it.

The hubris is in thinking otherwise.

I also never said that anyone one on your team didn’t think the design you came up with through. I said I didn’t like the final result. Also, if you were more open to what I was saying you would note that in one of my post I even mentioned I was reserving full discloser on my thoughts until I saw the full thing, even though I was sure my mind wouldn’t change about the design.

That's irrelevant. You're misunderstanding me.

I don't care if you like or hate the show or aspects of the show. It's your right to have an opinion about any story you actually sit through and observe. By the time you do see it, even if i were inclined to take your "advice" or ANY advice about it it's too late. These things were finished months before you ever see them. So how would your "advice" be helpful? In a room of ten viewers, nine of whom like the thing, why am I listening to the one person who doesn't? I'm not. No one is. It's ridiculous.

The deal we all make when we make these things and present them is we take our bows and we take our lumps, depending. We prefer everyone to love what we do, obviously, but if they don't, well, that's part of the rules and we hope for better the next time. Understanding that "next time" is probably happening right now in some fashion or another and whatever that project is won't see daylight for months and months again (no, I'm not talking about another Panther season. No news on that. Just talking about any/every project.)

Now I would very much like to stop pointing fingers and if your willing talk directly about the art. If you can’t until the episode airs I understand. I mentioned a few times now about coming back to it until then but the focus seems to be more on “how dare you not like it” with a little “ you don’t know what your talking about”.

I've explained the design choice. That's the end of my part of the conversation. If you don't like the show afteryou watch it, as i keep saying, that's absolutely fine. But, just for future reference, i will never, ever be asking anyone who isn't actually part of the actual creative team for input on how to make the work better. No one does that. No one ever will. The process of making this stuff and the sheer number of fan opinions takes the possibility away. Hubris isn't a factor.

[Ezyo1000]

Please, tell me more how great Cap, Reed, and Cyclops are in the Black Panther Appreciation thread.

No, really. I'm just fascinated.

Hey BoG it all ties back to Tchalla, notice Everytime I always name drop Tchalla. As I feel, given what's on panel and not just what is said, he has shown to be a better strategist, a war winner not just focusing on the battle at hand

[Ezyo1000]

Yup, couldn't be better said. On that note, I'm done with this topic. I think we're all on the same page Thank you Ezyo for your contributions and feedback on my rankings.

I'm going to watch the new ep of Panther Quest so i can understand what all this Atlantean outrage is all about

No problem rumble .

Next topic. If you could grab any tech or resources or versions shown from any of the Medias (cartoons, mcu animated movies etc.) And out them in the comics, what would you grab ?

[Rumble]

No problem rumble .

Next topic. If you could grab any tech or resources or versions shown from any of the Medias (cartoons, mcu animated movies etc.) And out them in the comics, what would you grab ?

Bruh, I LOVE that Panther emblem shield we saw in the BPvsThor fight. I want that in the comics and the movies. I also want the energy daggers from EMH Panther, and of course the vibranium movie suit.

Honestly, my composite T'Challa would be:

• Panther emblem shield (redjack)
• Sticky grenades (redjack)
• Knockout gas (Lee/Kirby)
• Energy daggers (EMH/Priest/Ewing)
• Vibranium suit/claws (BP movie)
• Dboi gauntlets (Hickman/Dboi)
• Camouflage (Hickman/Avengers Assemble)
• Teleportation (Aaron) *i.e. long range, not nightcrawler stuff
• Kimoyo AI hacking
• Hard-light projector (Cho/Kibblesmith) **i.e. his equivalent to Doombots
• Skybyke (Hudlin)

This is what I want for Christmas, or by Black Panther 3.

A famous tv show runner once said BP = Dr. Doom + Captain America.

Well I think the above pretty much covers that lol

[DragonsChi]

I didn't misunderstand you. The posts aren't complex. Artists do not quiz or poll their audience to "see how they can improve." It doesn't work that way, No matter how much a given member of the audience would love it to. We make. We present. You react. That's it.

The hubris is in thinking otherwise.

Oh I do believe you understood what I said and what I meant. I do however, know you are now trying to save face by turning what I said around. The fact that you are presenting an "above it all attitude" in regards to fan's who are the main source of you actually receiving revenue only further confirms that.

That's irrelevant. You're misunderstanding me.

I don't care if you like or hate the show or aspects of the show.

By how you're acting now it is very clear that you must.

It's your right to have an opinion about any story you actually sit through and observe. By the time you do see it, even if i were inclined to take your "advice" or ANY advice about it it's too late. These things were finished months before you ever see them. So how would your "advice" be helpful? In a room of ten viewers, nine of whom like the thing, why am I listening to the one person who doesn't? I'm not. No one is. It's ridiculous.

First off....I never initiated this conversation. You did. I never even told you that you must take my advice. I simply gave out a criticism about the design elements of certain characters. I don't need to watch anything to know if I do not like the design. I do not need you to agree or disagree with that.

BTW the fact that you are furthering the engagement of this conversation after I have already stated this a few times already shows that you must care. That I must have hit a nerve or some insecurity that you have. None of which was intended. But I'm not going to just switch my opinion on the designs because it happen. I think they are bad for those characters. If you have an issue with that ok. But its not going to change anything. I'm not asking you or telling you to do anything about it.

If you want to have an actual conversation cool lets go. But doing what you are doing now is not coming off as the professional your present yourself to be.

The deal we all make when we make these things and present them is we take our bows and we take our lumps, depending. We prefer everyone to love what we do, obviously, but if they don't, well, that's part of the rules and we hope for better the next time. Understanding that "next time" is probably happening right now in some fashion or another and whatever that project is won't see daylight for months and months again (no, I'm not talking about another Panther season. No news on that. Just talking about any/every project.)

I am fully aware of the bold. It's been my stance since this started. Now while I don't like some of the designs on the show I never outwardly projected any malice to it or it's cancelation. Therefore, your stating this part is must mostly be for you.

I understand that you are making it clear that you agree not everyone is going to like what you put out. However, the fact that you added the extra on what may or may not be occurring with the program when nothing was implied or asked for, shows that this is more of a personal issue and has little to do with anything I have posted thus far. Meaning this is the upmost understanding way, but maybe you should deal with that.

I've explained the design choice. That's the end of my part of the conversation. If you don't like the show afteryou watch it, as i keep saying, that's absolutely fine. But, just for future reference, i will never, ever be asking anyone who isn't actually part of the actual creative team for input on how to make the work better. No one does that. No one ever will. The process of making this stuff and the sheer number of fan opinions takes the possibility away. Hubris isn't a factor.

Again, I never said I didn't like the show. In fact I said quite a few times that I did like the show overall. I just don't like certain design choices. Not sure how many times I will have to tell you that after this but maybe this time will be the last.

I also never said you or any creator should take advise from anyone. I did say that and shown that Scott Synder reaches out to his fans and considers the criticism. He does not consider himself to far removed or above the people who help in putting food on his table to not listen to someone to find ways to improve his work or better himself. The man is humble enough to not take offense, think on what was said, respond in objection or agreement, and then move forward. There is an argument there that because he takes that approach that his work speaks for itself.

Is that for everyone? Who knows. From my experience in this world I would say that his attitude will continue to bring him success but I'm humble enough to admit that I am not an all knowing deity who has all the answers. The only reason I even brought it up was because you had a hand in taking it there. I do feel however, that your current attitude just by how this was handled will more then likely speak for itself as well in an opposite way in some form or another if it hasn't already.

But again that is just my take on it. Love it. Hate it. It is what it is.

[Ezyo1000]

Bruh, I LOVE that Panther emblem shield we saw in the BPvsThor fight. I want that in the comics and the movies. I also want the energy daggers from EMH Panther, and of course the vibranium movie suit.

Honestly, my composite T'Challa would be:

• Panther emblem shield (redjack)
• Sticky grenades (redjack)
• Knockout gas (Lee/Kirby)
• Energy daggers (EMH/Priest/Ewing)
• Vibranium suit/claws (BP movie)
• Dboi gauntlets (Hickman/Dboi)
• Camouflage (Hickman/Avengers Assemble)
• Teleportation (Aaron) *i.e. long range, not nightcrawler stuff
• Kimoyo AI hacking
• Hard-light projector (Cho/Kibblesmith) **i.e. his equivalent to Doombots
• Skybyke (Hudlin)

This is what I want for Christmas, or by Black Panther 3.

A famous tv show runner once said BP = Dr. Doom + Captain America.

Well I think the above pretty much covers that lol

So you would take the shield over the Kinect energy blast? I am drawing a blank, when did T'Challa use the sticky grenades?? Dude those hard light projectors were badass lol I want that too

[Rumble]

So you would take the shield over the Kinect energy blast? I am drawing a blank, when did T'Challa use the sticky grenades?? Dude those hard light projectors were badass lol I want that too

I want both! lol
Kinetic energy blasts comes with the bp movie suit right? Or are you referring to something else?

I figure the shield should be for protecting bystanders, like what we did with Shuri when Thor attacked her or just any situation where he has to take an energy beam full on.

The hard light projectors are the truth! Goes back to our years long discussion of how there are so many things that need to get standardized.

[Blind Wedjat]

No problem rumble .

Next topic. If you could grab any tech or resources or versions shown from any of the Medias (cartoons, mcu animated movies etc.) And out them in the comics, what would you grab ?

Aww man, I wanted to have a go at him again (especially since I just found some good receipts ). But I'll bite.

On the next topic: This is a tough one because I always rotate ideas around my head but here's what I might try.

• MCU nanotech Panther habit, BUT the kinetic energy thing visually it should work the way Stelfreeze depicted it (only glows when it takes it and is giving one back)
  
• Kimoyo OS in the helmet. Provides a mental link with T'Challa in the sense that he can command it with his mind, allows him to control his suit and all tech gear, and works in tandem with his enhanced senses to produce results. Capable of hacking.
  
• MCU Vibranium claws from the fingers and feet.
  
• Hickman's Cloaking and invisibility tech
  
• MCU/Priests sound absorbent soles and palms ("Sneakers). Can be turned on and off
  
• Kimoyo beads (Coates/Stelfreeze/MCU) but weaponised. Gas emitting, EMP, Remote Access, energy dampening, grenade (sticky, timed or detonate-on-impact), bolas, Vibranium stun net, kinetic energy shield variants.
  
• MCU Royal Talon fighter
  
• Priest/Hudlin's Sky Cycle or whatever the MCU hoverbike may be.
  

[Blind Wedjat]

I want both! lol
Kinetic energy blasts comes with the bp movie suit right? Or are you referring to something else?

I figure the shield should be for protecting bystanders, like what we did with Shuri when Thor attacked her or just any situation where he has to take an energy beam full on.

The hard light projectors are the truth! Goes back to our years long discussion of how there are so many things that need to get standardized.

I'm really curious. When did these appear?