Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Soulsword323]

Jean was lovely in today's X-Force. Really appreciated the dialogue between her and Beast.

[spirit2011]

For me it's mostly disappointment, because I'd hoped that he'd be a writer who would want to develop her characterization by really engaging her. But I fear the extended periods of time "dead" has left her in an odd space where most writers don't know who she is nor are they interested in learning. So instead they cast her into what role they need her to play, but due to that she's often written so wildly different. Case and point, XM:R compared to XM:G or any of the recent titles she's appeared in before HOX/POX.

As a fan of Jean it sucks a lot of the time because unlike so many of her peers many writers "get" their cores and write accordingly she doesn't have that luxury. For HOX/POX it highlights why I dislike most of her appearances because she's so often scrubbed of her agency to play once again Xavier's ingenue. So many posters consistently post about her contributions in that story but for me there's no emphasis on her actions. We go from their arrival on the Orchics base, to the explosion, and she's immediately looking to others for direction that continues with Monet after which she's embarrassing in that exchange. Hell even her maintaining contact with Krakoa had no stakes so while impressive its also incredibly forgettable because there is nothing to measure what's she doing other than how completely shaken she is even though she's been through worst.

I'm not sure if all the time she was dead is a reason.

Today X-force Jean is very good and a complete opposite of Hickamn's Jean

[nightw1ng]

I thought it was interesting in today's X-Force that spoilers:

Jean didn't even need to put on the Cerebro helmet in order to use it for putting Charles' memories into his new body. I also kind of like the idea that Jean's generosity and empathy comes from the fact that since she doesn't fear death.

end of spoilers

[MechaJeanix]

I loved the conversation between Jean and Beast. It was my favorite part of the issue. Jean shouldn't fear death and here we find that she has experiences with death before the Anne incident - she played in cemeteries.

My brother and I played in our family cemetery as kids. It was kind of our special place to play. I find cemeteries to be extremely peaceful and wonderful.

My online sort of gripe was that they didn't show the resurrection so we aren't clear if Jean put on the helmet, used it remotely, or just tk'd the thing on Xavier and it did the rest. I mean who knows what exactly happened but we know Jean played a big role.

I loved the scenes at the end with X-force together. I am very glad Jean is in this book with a capable writer who understands the character. Most of us complained about Jean in HOX because she seemed afraid and presumably afraid of death which is not who Jean is... not after all that she has been through.

[Conor]

I thought it was interesting in today's X-Force that spoilers:

Jean didn't even need to put on the Cerebro helmet in order to use it for putting Charles' memories into his new body. I also kind of like the idea that Jean's generosity and empathy comes from the fact that since she doesn't fear death.

end of spoilers

I found that rather interesting as well! I think...

spoilers:

Jean not requiring to have the helmet equipped to her head is a further testament to her Omega Level status as a telepath. Whereas Xavier requires the helmet to be worn while performing the resurrections, the helmet is but a “utensil” or “tool” to Jean. Xavier requires the psionic enhancement which the helmet provides when worn whereas Jean’s telepathy is of such a superior category that she doesn’t require this crutch. Whereas Xavier relies heavily on the Cerebro helmet to boost his telepathic powers, especially during the resurrection process, Jean’s Omega-status telepathy defies such limitations.

end of spoilers

[mike7171]

That's the part i am confused with in X-force#3. Did she or did she not? Is it implied that she did? Regardless, it would've been nice to see how it all went down. Sigh, missed opportunity.

[MechaJeanix]

That's the part i am confused with in X-force#3. Did she or did she not? Is it implied that she did? Regardless, it would've been nice to see how it all went down. Sigh, missed opportunity.

I suppose we can assume she put on or used the helmet because of the cover but we really don't know since it wasn't shown. I wanted to see a tender scene between Jean and Xavier. They sometimes forget the father-daughter/ teacher-mentor relationship between them because they mostly focus on how close Xavier is with Scott. Though like I said before, I did appreciate the scenes between Jean and Beast.

[spirit2011]

I suppose we can assume she put on or used the helmet because of the cover but we really don't know since it wasn't shown. I wanted to see a tender scene between Jean and Xavier. They sometimes forget the father-daughter/ teacher-mentor relationship between them because they mostly focus on how close Xavier is with Scott. Though like I said before, I did appreciate the scenes between Jean and Beast.

Majority of writers write the father/son dinamics, they are majority on comics. Yeah I think Jean/Xavier doesn't get the atention it deserves

I loved the conversation between Jean and Beast. It was my favorite part of the issue. Jean shouldn't fear death and here we find that she has experiences with death before the Anne incident - she played in cemeteries.

My brother and I played in our family cemetery as kids. It was kind of our special place to play. I find cemeteries to be extremely peaceful and wonderful.

My online sort of gripe was that they didn't show the resurrection so we aren't clear if Jean put on the helmet, used it remotely, or just tk'd the thing on Xavier and it did the rest. I mean who knows what exactly happened but we know Jean played a big role.

I loved the scenes at the end with X-force together. I am very glad Jean is in this book with a capable writer who understands the character. Most of us complained about Jean in HOX because she seemed afraid and presumably afraid of death which is not who Jean is... not after all that she has been through.

Play on cemeteries? that is new. Heard of people drinking at night

I said before that death was something very present on Jean life since she was a kid, she wouldn't be afraid of it.
Percy really adressed it very well

[Celestialbodies]

Thoroughly enjoyed X-force, so many different events, potential arcs, and character perspectives once again. Also more please of whatever Percy's doing with Beast and Jean.

[loke13]

Majority of writers write the father/son dinamics, they are majority on comics. Yeah I think Jean/Xavier doesn't get the atention it deserves



Play on cemeteries? that is new. Heard of people drinking at night

I said before that death was something very present on Jean life since she was a kid, she wouldn't be afraid of it.
Percy really adressed it very well

I don't fully agree. Having Jean basically say that she doesn't fear death was too detached from Humanity to me especially set the fear of death is a very defining trait for people.

Besides we've seen Jean terrified of dying before in the past and those past experiences don't really gel well with this new speech of hers.

I think the fear of death and ultimately overcoming that fear to do what's right is what makes Jean who she is a defining human trait that elevates her without alienating.

[WallStreeter]

I don't fully agree. Having Jean basically say that she doesn't fear death was too detached from Humanity to me especially set the fear of death is a very defining trait for people.

Besides we've seen Jean terrified of dying before in the past and those past experiences don't really gel well with this new speech of hers.

I think the fear of death and ultimately overcoming that fear to do what's right is what makes Jean who she is a defining human trait that elevates her without alienating.

Except she's died and come back so many times how can she fear it?

She certainly earned the code name Phoenix with or without the Phoenix force. She dies to be reborn.

Of course she'd want to avoid dying if possible, but if she has to do it she'll do it.

And perhaps that's become the point of her character. She'll sacrifice herself for the greater good if she has to. It makes her the Ultimate hero.

As far as she knew when she piloted that shuttle as Marvel Girl she was going to die, yet she did it.

[Havok83]

I don't fully agree. Having Jean basically say that she doesn't fear death was too detached from Humanity to me especially set the fear of death is a very defining trait for people.

Besides we've seen Jean terrified of dying before in the past and those past experiences don't really gel well with this new speech of hers.

I think the fear of death and ultimately overcoming that fear to do what's right is what makes Jean who she is a defining human trait that elevates her without alienating.

Death means something different for a character like Jean than a person like me and you. She's literally died numerous times and always comes down. People fear death bc of the finality that surrounds it. Its not the final endpoint for Jean and never has been

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I think it makes sense for Jean not to fear death, at this point, even discounting the Krakoa resurrection setup. She's seen it before, numerous times, from all vantage points, both physical and metaphysical. She doesn't and shouldn't have the same relationship to it that real life people do.

Hell, fear of death never really deterred her anyway. That's how she became the Phoenix in the first place, looking death square in the face and sucking it up to save her people.

[Londo Bellian]

Some great irony there, stating that Jean's now absolute-ZERO fear of death, which would be a NOT-human* quality, is simultaneously the source of her infinite compassion, an ideal human quality, even if necessity makes her prioritize giving compassion to mutantkind and reserving violent pain elsewhere.

spoilers:

*have to describe stuff like Krakoa's subtle(?) discarding of sapiens cultural norms and conventions (to allow a unique mutant culture to replace them) as NOT-human rather than INhuman, that term being a berserk button of sorts.

end of spoilers

[Wiccan]

I think it makes sense for Jean not to fear death, at this point, even discounting the Krakoa resurrection setup. She's seen it before, numerous times, from all vantage points, both physical and metaphysical. She doesn't and shouldn't have the same relationship to it that real life people do.

Hell, fear of death never really deterred her anyway. That's how she became the Phoenix in the first place, looking death square in the face and sucking it up to save her people.

At first I thought this was contradictory with Phoenix Resurrection Jean. After all, she seemed to believe that people dying should be considered natural and not for a force to undo... Well, in a way I guess it kind of really is, thanks to everyone needing to agree with the current Krakoa status quo. But at the same time, it also fits with how the Phoenix' promise of immortality and resurrection for her and her loved ones didn't tempt her at all.