Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[MechaJeanix]

I don't think the phoenix issue comes from Rosenberg but from editorial. Taylor was also working with that take.

I do agree with you it was a decision that was made. I think we can credit Rosenberg with not retconning Jean again. My fear is that they were going to say that Jean in New X-men was a Phoenix clone/copy. Rosenberg said in his pitch that he advised they shouldn't retcon her again and that everything that had happened to her previously had to matter. So I do give him that credit. I still didn't like the take.

Jean in X-men Red did mention being a part of the Phoenix (referencing Dark Phoenix) so I did like that part but again it was referenced as a destructive force.

The best recent take was Bunn in Phoenix Generations where the Phoenix was portrayed as a force of good and Teen Jean brought up the manipulation of Phoenix by the hellfire club. In Dennis Hopeless' Jean solo Ghost Jean mentioned how the Phoenix was both good and bad. I liked the explanation in that series. At least there Jean understood the Phoenix unlike under Rosenberg where she didn't seem to understand it. In Endsong Jean seemed to understand the Phoenix and her role with it.

I guess that was my big gripe with Rosenberg and that Jean had little personality in his mini.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I'm fairly certain part of the mandate was "no Phoenix", but I take it that the slant against her time as Phoenix in the story was Rosenberg. That Jean was barely in the series did not go unnoticed either. He took the job, but I can't imagine the character thrills him much.

[Havok83]

I'm fairly certain part of the mandate was "no Phoenix", but I take it that the slant against her time of Phoenix in the story was Rosenberg. That Jean was barely in the series did not go unnoticed either. He took the job, but I can't imagine the character thrills him much.

The only thing I can say in his defense is that he didnt have much time to write it as Marvel rushed her return and the end product showed. The book was announced at the end of September and started shipping weekly in Dec (though it skipped one week). Inconsistent art and a meandering plot with its own inconsistencies. I wonder what he would have done had he been given more time but we'll never know. I still roll my eyes that Marvel hired Taylor to write Red before Rosenberg had even finished PR and he had no idea how that was ending, which is why we got that time jump in the first issue.

[PsychoEFrost]

I do agree with you it was a decision that was made. I think we can credit Rosenberg with not retconning Jean again. My fear is that they were going to say that Jean in New X-men was a Phoenix clone/copy. Rosenberg said in his pitch that he advised they shouldn't retcon her again and that everything that had happened to her previously had to matter. So I do give him that credit. I still didn't like the take.

Jean in X-men Red did mention being a part of the Phoenix (referencing Dark Phoenix) so I did like that part but again it was referenced as a destructive force.

The best recent take was Bunn in Phoenix Generations where the Phoenix was portrayed as a force of good and Teen Jean brought up the manipulation of Phoenix by the hellfire club. In Dennis Hopeless' Jean solo Ghost Jean mentioned how the Phoenix was both good and bad. I liked the explanation in that series. At least there Jean understood the Phoenix unlike under Rosenberg where she didn't seem to understand it. In Endsong Jean seemed to understand the Phoenix and her role with it.

I guess that was my big gripe with Rosenberg and that Jean had little personality in his mini.

I didn't see Rosenberg's Phoenix as inherently bad. He painted a picture of a Phoenix that desperately wants her favorite host back, desperate to have back that vast empathic ability that drew her to Jean in the first place. A Phoenix unable to see the host's wants or needs as a cosmic force above it all, incomplete without a host to clarify.

If anything, Hopeless's portrayal was more unbalanced towards being a force of death, with Ghost Jean, Emma, QQQ, and Hope being upset/scared of the Phoenix, while only Rachel balanced it out. The Phoenix also not communicating until Jeen basically had to fight for her life against her made the Phoenix look evil.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I do agree with you it was a decision that was made. I think we can credit Rosenberg with not retconning Jean again. My fear is that they were going to say that Jean in New X-men was a Phoenix clone/copy. Rosenberg said in his pitch that he advised they shouldn't retcon her again and that everything that had happened to her previously had to matter. So I do give him that credit. I still didn't like the take.

Jean in X-men Red did mention being a part of the Phoenix (referencing Dark Phoenix) so I did like that part but again it was referenced as a destructive force.

The best recent take was Bunn in Phoenix Generations where the Phoenix was portrayed as a force of good and Teen Jean brought up the manipulation of Phoenix by the hellfire club. In Dennis Hopeless' Jean solo Ghost Jean mentioned how the Phoenix was both good and bad. I liked the explanation in that series. At least there Jean understood the Phoenix unlike under Rosenberg where she didn't seem to understand it. In Endsong Jean seemed to understand the Phoenix and her role with it.

I guess that was my big gripe with Rosenberg and that Jean had little personality in his mini.

Hopeless is particularly good when he focuses. He was trying really hard to push the bratty teen angle and that tainted the solo a bit for me but he's good about her overall. Season One Jean is a great Young Jean. Spirited in personality, evidently self-confident overall but not perfect, and also empathetic.

I want him to write Adult Jean because his "Jean fucks **** up" take is pretty great. You had to love her when she was done with Young Jean's **** and took charge.

[MechaJeanix]

The problem wasnt Jean back in the X-men without the PF, bc Im fine with that. Its how she outright rejected it and it was treated like a horrible destructive force she needed to get away from. That was all on Rosenberg

I agree. I'm being a broken record but I think the story should have been Jean wanting to be human again and wanting to be back with her family: the X-men, and they could have went with a destiny fulfilled story (maybe even have her do one last act of phoenix work) and not one where the Phoenix manipulates Jean. It makes it seem like Jean was in an abusive toxic relationship and one could infer that Jean was just manipulated all through New X-men. What if the white hot room was just another Phoenix illusion inside the phoenix egg lol I mean writers could interpret all sorts of things when the Phoenix no longer burns through lies but constantly lies to Jean.

Also if the Phoenix is so dangerous by rejecting it Jean will unleash it on someone who may be very destructive and dangerous. I don't think Jean would cowardly send it away and possibly send it to some evil being, etc. I also think Jean would have used the Phoenix power to save Scott or her family. Jean is a hero after all and she cares for those she loves.

But they went with a story where the Phoenix is so threatening and menacing that Jean would sacrifice Scott and her family to be rid of it. Jean didn't hate the Phoenix in New X-men or Phoenix Endsong so the whole thing was just bizarre. But I guess learning of Scott and her family's death would effect her (Xavier as well).

[Havok83]

I didn't see Rosenberg's Phoenix as inherently bad. He painted a picture of a Phoenix that desperately wants her favorite host back, desperate to have back that vast empathic ability that drew her to Jean in the first place. A Phoenix unable to see the host's wants or needs as a cosmic force above it all, incomplete without a host to clarify.

If anything, Hopeless's portrayal was more unbalanced towards being a force of death, with Ghost Jean, Emma, QQQ, and Hope being upset/scared of the Phoenix, while only Rachel balanced it out. The Phoenix also not communicating until Jeen basically had to fight for her life against her made the Phoenix look evil.

It flat out killed Jean and rampaged through the forrest, nearly killing the other former hosts that tried to protect her. I didnt like how Hopeless portrayed it either but then again I hated his Jeans

[MechaJeanix]

It flat out killed Jean and rampaged through the forrest, nearly killing the other former hosts that tried to protect her. I didnt like how Hopeless portrayed it either but then again I hated his Jeans

I went back to regularly reading and buying X-men comics due to the Jean Grey solo. I had taken a few years off sometime after Avengers vs. X-men (may have been right before it). I loved the Jean solo and I loved Hopeless' voice for Ghost Jean. I wish Jean had came back a little hardened, but at the same time I loved how strong X-men Red Jean was. At least she had toughness and a resolve that made her a leader.

Teen Scott had a lasting impact on adult Scott, but did Teen Jean have the same effect on Adult Jean? Jean is no longer leading a team, she doesn't user her new powers, etc.

[phoenixzero23]

Teen Scott had a lasting impact on adult Scott, but did Teen Jean have the same effect on Adult Jean?

I think Jeen did have an impact but not on story. Teen Jean came on a time when adult Jean was nothing but a memory, then showed that Jean had potential.
She slowly reintroduced everybody to Jean again.
In my case, teen Jean is how I met and became a fan of the character.

[PsychoEFrost]

It flat out killed Jean and rampaged through the forrest, nearly killing the other former hosts that tried to protect her. I didnt like how Hopeless portrayed it either but then again I hated his Jeans

I didn't mind Ghost Jean. She was understandably upset that there was a forthcoming Phoenix event, and she wasn't there to fix it. She was scared for her friends' well being. And when Emma was being snarky and catty, she didn't lower herself to that level, preferring to focus on helping Jeen.

[Grey]

I went back to regularly reading and buying X-men comics due to the Jean Grey solo. I had taken a few years off sometime after Avengers vs. X-men (may have been right before it). I loved the Jean solo and I loved Hopeless' voice for Ghost Jean. I wish Jean had came back a little hardened, but at the same time I loved how strong X-men Red Jean was. At least she had toughness and a resolve that made her a leader.

Teen Scott had a lasting impact on adult Scott, but did Teen Jean have the same effect on Adult Jean? Jean is no longer leading a team, she doesn't user her new powers, etc.

Paragraph one- respectfully disagree. Hated teen Jean’s voice until about the last 1/3 of the book, and I hated ghost Jean’s voice.

Paragraph two- agreed. Teen jean was such a successful concept, overall. Most fans really enjoyed the portrayal, I think. To not incorporate some of that into adult Jean’s new status quo is a HUGE missed opportunity, in my opinion. I’m still sad about it every time I think of teen jean. I miss her, honestly.

Xmen red jean wasn’t bad by any means. But I still prefer teen jean.

[Harpsikord]

Teen Jean proved to Marvel that everyone saying that there was worth in Jean Grey as a character wasn't lying. She held not one, but two team books on her own, had a successful solo run, and yeah. She's the entire reason that adult Jean came back.

Now, in-story there hasn't been much done with teen Jean and the consequences from her on adult Jean yet. That'll change - eventually. As soon as there's a writer that wants to do something with that, whether that's the pink form, Jean using telekinetic weapons, or referencing interactions with other characters.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean Grey had moments of confidence and ferocity even before Teen Jean. Her fiercer side doesn't get shown more consistently mostly because of archaic, old-fashioned views about the character and a worry that she will overshadow who she is shipped with. Hopefully Feige and Co. will let Jean get her "strong female character" on. That would affect the way the majority sees her.

On the pink mode, I can take it or leave it. The psychic weapons thing should never come up again. We have Betsy for that.

[Harpsikord]

All psychics should be able to make psychic weaponry, Jean included. Period.

[Havok83]

I suppose but they were kind of dumb for Jean. They were there just for show and a nice visual