Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[spirit2011]

I don't think that Moira has anything to do with changing the minds of mutants. I think that Xavier is playing her too - if anything Charles is the villain and Moira is the hero.

Not sure how much of a hero she is. too, but xavier is going behind her

[phoenixzero23]

I don't think that Moira has anything to do with changing the minds of mutants. I think that Xavier is playing her too - if anything Charles is the villain and Moira is the hero.

Xavier and Magneto are definitely tryng to play Moira. They were all like we got this on POX#6

[Harpsikord]

Not sure how much of a hero she is. too, but xavier is going behind her

Moira's ultimate goal is to save mutants, and changing their actual mentalities goes hella against that. We know Charles and Erik are trying to do things their own way, against her wishes, so...

[PsychoEFrost]

This Scott is not that far off from Rosenberg's take. He wasnt some great leader (but rather fumbled quite a bit). He took more of a backseat in terms of leading and set up his X-men as a democracy where everyone got a vote. I actually think this Scott is more competent than Rosenberg's version, who was a joke. Neither are as good as the one Bendis and Gillen wrote though

The Scott in Rosenberg's run took a back seat because of how suicidally depressed he was. This one feels like an extreme reversion.

[phoenixzero23]

Moira's ultimate goal is to save mutants...

Are you sure about that? I mean it is what it looks like at the moment but I feel she has her own shady secrets and goals.

[TheDeadSpace]

Not sure how much of a hero she is. too, but xavier is going behind her

I'm not sure I trust any of the three to be honest.

[spirit2011]

Are you sure about that? I mean it is what it looks like at the moment but I feel she has her own shady secrets and goals.

Yes, she is shady. I think she is more anti-hero

[Havok83]

Moira's ultimate goal is to save mutants, and changing their actual mentalities goes hella against that. We know Charles and Erik are trying to do things their own way, against her wishes, so...

I mean she tried and failed 7-9 times. I can see why they would want to take lead on this

[spirit2011]

I mean she tried and failed 7-9 times. I can see why they would want to take lead on this

well they were also part of these failures

[Havok83]

well they were also part of these failures

versions of them were, but not the 616 Xavier and Magneto that are in this story.

[Snoop Dogg]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3p_E8Qi...d=fqem5hlc1c1r



https://www.instagram.com/p/B3rqE3li...=12urxz9u3kr20

[Factor]

So, I actually think that the way that Jean is being written is intentional so I'm giving Hickman the benefit of the doubt at the moment. Someone here brought up that the last time Jean was in the dress, she was being actively repressed by Xavier, and that's probably what Hickman is referring to when he says to remember the most iconic time she wore it.

My current theory is that not all of the X-Men agreed with Xavier and his idea of Krakoa, especially not the way that he and Magneto are running it - and that Jean was chief among them. Jean's own Mutant Nation was against everything Krakoa, Utopia, and Genosha represent because they gather mutants in one place. What if she actively disagreed with him, they battled, and someone got the better of Jean - leading to a death or to Xavier getting the upper hand on her, and he reprograms her to basically be the perfect subservient housewife. Her in the dress is representative of that.

It wouldn't be ideal, but it'd be a decent plot reason for the way that she's acting right now.

Also I've been thinking about it and because of what the dress represents to people like Charles, Hank, and the Phoenix itself - Jean, in her right mind, would probably hate it herself.

I hope you're right and this is intentional. Jean is by far the worst written so far. Feels like she truly regressed to her 60s persona.
The one thing that would bother me if you were right is the fact that while she isn't in herself, she's apparently maintaining relationships with both Scott and Logan. That would make the whole thing even more icky and abusive.

[MechaJeanix]

I hope you're right and this is intentional. Jean is by far the worst written so far. Feels like she truly regressed to her 60s persona.
The one thing that would bother me if you were right is the fact that while she isn't in herself, she's apparently maintaining relationships with both Scott and Logan. That would make the whole thing even more icky and abusive.

While it could be true that passive Jean is intentional but I don't think it will be some nefarious cover up by Xavier. JDW isn't a fan of Xavier being a villain. Sure he does some questionable things but he does it for what he believes to be the greater good. I just want Jean to get more screen time and have a personality. We were spoiled with X-Men Red, and with Teen Jean and her solo, and because so many of us remember New X-Men Jean. This Jean is a minor background character so far. We are used to Jean having a presence even when she's in the background. This Jean reminds of Jean in Age of X-man. She was just there, and for the most part didn't feel like the same character.

My fear is that Jean's mind had been backed up to an earlier version and it was by her choice because of some lame reason. That would be tough. Or Jean died again before House of X 1 and when Xavier put her mind back in the file was corrupted and they had to go with an earlier one lol That would be dumb but you never know what they will do.

My fear with Scott being brought back is that Jean would go into a supporting "wife" role and just become an accessory to Cyclops. I love both characters but this is a prime example of why I want them separate. Scott gets to be the "man" and the character most of us are assumed to identify with. I mean Scott is popular and if you look on twitter a lot of progressive X- fans love and identify with him but the comicsgate people also love and identify with him also. Sometimes it surprises me how popular a character he is because I recall 20 years ago and almost everyone hated Scott on the message boards (he was the boyscout and most guys loved Wolverine - my times have certainly changed).

I'm going to continue to look on the bright side though I have not reserved any of the Dawn of X books at my local comic store. I may or may not be able to pick up X-Men 1. I do plan on adding X-force to my pull list (should have already done that I guess). I loved HOX/POX (mostly) but I'm hesitant about the Dawn of X titles.

[spirit2011]

I hope you're right and this is intentional. Jean is by far the worst written so far. Feels like she truly regressed to her 60s persona.
The one thing that would bother me if you were right is the fact that while she isn't in herself, she's apparently maintaining relationships with both Scott and Logan. That would make the whole thing even more icky and abusive.

She isn't herself, so if they go poliamor it would be really bad

[phoenixzero23]

How many times has Jean died?
-Suicide on the Dark Phoenix Saga (though that was the phoenix but still teachnically Jean's most famous death)
-By Xorneto on new X-men
-Consumed by a poison
-Killed by sentinels on space
-She died on endsong a few times too (don't remember how many at the moment)

Anything I'm missing?