Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[spirit2011]

Keep in mind that the entire X-Office right now recognizes Jean as being a more powerful telepath than Charles. She's the top tier. I don't think X's mindwipe really measures up with that fact - so if it's something that comes up it might be that Jean realizes that he did it. It would be a good subversion to the typical way that Jean is treated to have her be the one against Charles eventually, when she's normally the first one by his side.

Xavier shouldn't be able to mindwipe Jean so easy.

[Harpsikord]

Xavier shouldn't be able to mindwipe Jean so easy.

Yeah, agreed. It was bogus.

[spirit2011]

Yeah, agreed. It was bogus.

Rosenberg said that Jean was distracted LOL what a bad excuse

[Omega Alpha]

Xavier will be the bad guy, I'm sure. Not only he's using a Cerebro that makes him look like The Maker, but Powers of X is supposed to follow the consequences of his actions in the future, and they wouldn't do that if it was for because everything was nice.

Rosenberg said that Jean was distracted LOL what a bad excuse

Yeah, unless he had something boosting his powers, like this new Cerebro, it's ridiculous.

[loke13]

Xavier shouldn't be able to mindwipe Jean so easy.

Eh it's a flip floppy situation that's at the mercy of whoever is writing, Xavier is the strongest TP. No wait Jean is! No wait it's X again. Now it's REALLY Jean. The argument could be made that since Xavier was the person who originally suppressed her TP and has known her for over a decade there's probably a few backdoors he's built into her mind to make it easy to mindwipe her.

For the record I think Jean has far surpassed Xavier a long time ago as the most powerful TP and realistically the only people who should give her a run for her own money in the X-men are her own kids.

[Harpsikord]

Eh it's a flip floppy situation that's at the mercy of whoever is writing, Xavier is the strongest TP. No wait Jean is! No wait it's X again. Now it's REALLY Jean. The argument could be made that since Xavier was the person who originally suppressed her TP and has known her for over a decade there's probably a few backdoors he's built into her mind to make it easy to mindwipe her.

For the record I think Jean has far surpassed Xavier a long time ago as the most powerful TP and realistically the only people who should give her a run for her own money in the X-men are her own kids.

The bolded is what I've largely decided is true. It's the only way I can reasonably accept it.

Also, not even most of her kids should be able to measure up. Nathan never could and X-Man is another story entirely. Rachel may be able to.

[Havok83]

Rosenberg's excuse made sense to me. Jean had JUST gotten back from the dead. It wasnt inconcievable that she'd be rusty with her abilities. She also wasnt really around for the destruction of Xavier's character so wouldnt have expected him to try that with her

[Harpsikord]

I mean, Jean was alive through Onslaught and knew the things that he thought about her when she was a teenager. I think she was aware that he wasn't SUPER trustworthy, just not the actual extent of it.

[Havok83]

I mean, Jean was alive through Onslaught and knew the things that he thought about her when she was a teenager. I think she was aware that he wasn't SUPER trustworthy, just not the actual extent of it.

Onslaught wasnt his fault, at least not directly and she was understandin given her own history with Dark Phoenix. He had an attraction to her when she was younger, but thats not anything he ever acted on and she never held that against him. She loved and trusted him as a mentor and that was the final impression she had of him before her death. He was revealed to intentionally do some really screwed up things after she died. Most of that was in the past but what he did in AXM Annual was present day and calculating. She saw firsthand for the first time, the dark side of Xavier and he turned that on her and she definitely was not expecting it

[The tall man]

Eh it's a flip floppy situation that's at the mercy of whoever is writing, Xavier is the strongest TP. No wait Jean is! No wait it's X again. Now it's REALLY Jean. The argument could be made that since Xavier was the person who originally suppressed her TP and has known her for over a decade there's probably a few backdoors he's built into her mind to make it easy to mindwipe her.

For the record I think Jean has far surpassed Xavier a long time ago as the most powerful TP and realistically the only people who should give her a run for her own money in the X-men are her own kids.

Xavier is no slouch in the TP department. I think an Xavier who goes all out and holds nothing back can take a non-pheonix enhanced Jean. The problem was he always kept himself in check but when he goes full bore like Onslaught or an AU version he is immensely powerful. Powerful enough too defeat Jean, it wouldn't be a cakewalk by no means but his raw power combined with his experience should allow him to win. Against a Phoenix enhanced Jean there is little to no chance of winning, he would/could put up a good fight but ultimately will lose. Just my two cents. I just don't think anyone is unbeatable.

[Grey]

I don’t agree with a lot of the opinions that Xavier shouldn’t be able to mindwipe Jean.

The power comparison isn’t really relevant. Telepathy is a fictional power of course but I imagine a telepath who’s just sitting around chilling, and not actively blocking a psychic attack, could be easily overcome.

Think of it like other skills. Let’s say a pro swimmer is casually swimming in a pool with their friend. If the pro swimmer doesn’t know he’s actively engaged in a competition that he needs to win, is he suddenly a worse swimmer Than his friend if his friend
Is swimming stronger and faster?

If that explanation isn’t enough, there’s also the fact that objectively better teams in sports lose all the time to objectively worse teams due to a combination of factors that just so happen to align that allow them to win. That doesn’t diminish their win- they took advantage of the opportunity and made their move. But that doesn’t make them the better team necessarily. Anyone can win.

I think power levels are only relevant to the discussion if they’re both aware of what’s going on and actively engaging in he conflict. I don’t picture a psychic sitting around 24/7 with a strong mental defense up. *shrug*

[Phoenixx9]

I do not think any of "Jean's" children are her match, with the possible exception of X-Man.

As for X, Before Jean died the last death, she was about 2-3 levels above him. His re-powering from being thrown in M'Krann Crystal was supposed to have increased his powers. Jean should still be a good level or 2 above him.

[Omega Alpha]

I do not think any of "Jean's" children are her match, with the possible exception of X-Man.
.

They are. Cable has the virus keeping him in check, without it he's as powerful as X-man. Rachel is also obscenely power when written well- which is a rare thing, mind you. There's a reason Sinister was crazy about the Summers-Grey genes.

[loke13]

I do not think any of "Jean's" children are her match, with the possible exception of X-Man.

As for X, Before Jean died the last death, she was about 2-3 levels above him. His re-powering from being thrown in M'Krann Crystal was supposed to have increased his powers. Jean should still be a good level or 2 above him.

Aren't all her "kids" supposed to be like super powerful TP/TK users? I mean with Cable he uses the bulk of his powers to hold back the TO virus so has very little skill/experience with TP/TK and on the other side we have X-Man who's supposed to be "Nathan unchained", and with Rachel...I mean it's Rachel she's got a lot of feats under her belt and she's pretty powerful when written competently not to mention she laid the smack down on Thor single handily.

Also just clarifying strictly speaking in terms of RAW POTENTIAL.

The power comparison isn’t really relevant. Telepathy is a fictional power of course but I imagine a telepath who’s just sitting around chilling, and not actively blocking a psychic attack, could be easily overcome.

Think of it like other skills. Let’s say a pro swimmer is casually swimming in a pool with their friend. If the pro swimmer doesn’t know he’s actively engaged in a competition that he needs to win, is he suddenly a worse swimmer Than his friend if his friend
Is swimming stronger and faster?

I kind of view it as this too. Shouldn't matter how good you are at something if you're taken by surprise or engage with an enemy who's more prepared than you it might not end in your favor.

[Wiccan]

This was so cute and sad. Awwnnnn

I love this tone of pink for Jean. Kinda want more artists to draw her wearing it.

Also, I didn't say anything about it but I thought Marvelous #4 and #5 were good. Nothing too exciting but I was... satisfied with Jean's role in it.